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      04-19-2007, 12:29 PM   #1
TheDreamer
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DSG or Manual

I know this has been debated many times before, but I still find myself split between the two. Time is not a problem for me, since i cant purchase the beast until around 2010, but i'm wondering what to get. I'll probably take it to the track at most around 2 or 3 times a year, and spend most of my time driving it on the freeway in the bay area (California). Is the speed gains of DSG enough to offset the loss of a certain "fun" control factor that comes from ability to manipulate the clutch? What are your opinions?
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      04-19-2007, 01:43 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juzef View Post
I second that question and call on those who have experience with various DSG/SMG & Manual to describe their feelings on the Fun Factor element of things. Ultimately, I'm getting the M3 for the FUN. So, I hope to choose wisely being that it's a 65-70k decission. Which is more Fun?? DSG/SMG/or Manual?

This discussion has been done before (SMG Vs Manual) however I haven't read any serious discussion that attempted to focuse strictly on the FUN Factor.

Fun means alot of things and they are different in many ways to different people..but perhaps we can share our opinions and experiences.

Joseph
San Diego, #33 for new M3

The SMG is fun.

Test-drive both and make your own decision. This discussion has been beaten to death for 7 years.
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      04-19-2007, 02:06 PM   #3
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This discussion has been beaten to death for 7 years.
LOL - that's sure is a gruelling death-beating!

I agree tho - a test drive is what you need to do. You could read all seven years (actually its more if you include SMG I) of the debate and be totally convinced you should go with one option, and then five minutes behind the wheel could change your mind. Both are fun, both are fast.
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      04-19-2007, 02:28 PM   #4
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everyday I ask myself this same question which one? which one? I really think I'm going to end up w/ Manual since it won't be a DD
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      04-19-2007, 02:59 PM   #5
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Hi i think manual personaly, i have driven the smg and own the manual, nothing gives you that thrill factor of going through a apex comming out dropping the clutch poping the next gear and slamming the gas again, it always gives me a buzz, but with the smg it gives you an artifical feeling difficult too explain thats why like above mentioned you have to drive it to feel and understand, and you will know almost immediately what does and what does not get the adrenalin flowing! for me dsg seems to efficient i had the oppurtunity to drive a gallardo with 1 n it just put me right off the car, dont get me wrong its mechanically amazing but the same gear changing all the time n when something is repetative it becomes boring. your paying all that money what for? the drive and involvement, dsg just takes that away, maybe doing things when you dont want and not when you want, so its x amount faster in changing a gear great but you havent done it so it just feels diluted that said many a time when i have got stuck in traffic n thought god an auto would be just brilliant now, but then i think so i have to pop the clutch a few times so what, its worth it because when the road does open up again you work your way through the gears and you have a blast, anyway thats just my opinion i am sure people would have had just as much if not more fun with the smg! each to his own i suppose thats what makes it all exciting!!
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      04-19-2007, 09:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDreamer View Post
Is the speed gains of DSG enough to offset the loss of a certain "fun" control factor that comes from ability to manipulate the clutch? What are your opinions?
I would not make the decision based on speed gains, as they will be infinitesimal in the scheme of things. I've been driving manuals for 42 years (except for auto 2nd cars like my ML350). However, I'm seriously considering going with the forthcoming DCT. While a manual transmission is very engaging and takes skill to drive well, noone would have invented this if automatic clutches had been a possiblity. The future is sealed to some type of AMT or DCT. See this aritcle: http://www.just-auto.com/article.aspx?ID=88902&lk=fs.

Does a more difficult to master tranny make it better? I don't think so. While I'd like to hold my MT mastery over some 16-year old newbie, it doesn't make the technology better. Get rid of the clutch pedal, I say. But, drive both before you decide. The extra difficulty and involvement of an MT may appeal to you, as it has for me all these years.
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      04-20-2007, 03:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudd786 View Post
for me dsg seems to efficient i had the oppurtunity to drive a gallardo with 1 n it just put me right off the car,
You wouldn't have driven a Gallardo with DSG. Not unless it was an experimental car that nobody knows about. , which makes me question whether you know what you are talking about really.


I love SMG. I don't think it's any less satisfying than a manual. After all, both achieve the same end result, a new gear, but with a different method of execution. The satisfaction comes from changing the gear at the right time for optimum performance. SMG also requires a certain level of skill to get the changes right. I think there's a lot of macho posturing by people who think that if they say they prefer a 'stick' as opposed to SMG, it makes them a higher skilled driver.

The truth is, unless you are a semi-amateur or professional racing driver there is no way you can get the same performance from the car with a stick as opposed to the SMG.
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      04-20-2007, 04:13 AM   #8
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thanks for all your informative responses, I will keep this in mind! But strong cases have been made for both sides and atm i'm still split! (leanign towards dsg tho)
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      04-20-2007, 05:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
You wouldn't have driven a Gallardo with DSG. Not unless it was an experimental car that nobody knows about. , which makes me question whether you know what you are talking about really.


I love SMG. I don't think it's any less satisfying than a manual. After all, both achieve the same end result, a new gear, but with a different method of execution. The satisfaction comes from changing the gear at the right time for optimum performance. SMG also requires a certain level of skill to get the changes right. I think there's a lot of macho posturing by people who think that if they say they prefer a 'stick' as opposed to SMG, it makes them a higher skilled driver.

The truth is, unless you are a semi-amateur or professional racing driver there is no way you can get the same performance from the car with a stick as opposed to the SMG.
maybe he drove a Gellado engine car lol
like S6 with DSG...lol
fun may not be all about performance tho.....more things to touch around might be fun for somebody
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      04-20-2007, 06:19 AM   #10
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my 06 325i was had smg while my 07 335i is manual, so i've experienced both...for what i can say the smg shifts like a manual and makes it a lot easier especailly when on the phone or something and its a smooth shift every time....and as for the manual, its a little rough a times but makes the driving, in my opinion, all the more fun......depends on what your looking for...in honesty though i wish i got the smg on the 335i sometimes, but that's sometimes..
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      04-20-2007, 07:30 AM   #11
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my 06 325i was had smg while my 07 335i is manual, so i've experienced both...

But you haven't experienced the SMG which is available in the E46 M3.

Please don't confuse SMG in the standard 3 series with the SMG in the M3. Two completely different systems (despite having the same name).
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      04-20-2007, 09:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDreamer View Post
I know this has been debated many times before, but I still find myself split between the two. Time is not a problem for me, since i cant purchase the beast until around 2010, but i'm wondering what to get. I'll probably take it to the track at most around 2 or 3 times a year, and spend most of my time driving it on the freeway in the bay area (California). Is the speed gains of DSG enough to offset the loss of a certain "fun" control factor that comes from ability to manipulate the clutch? What are your opinions?
Manual all way. There is no replacement.
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      04-20-2007, 09:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
You wouldn't have driven a Gallardo with DSG. Not unless it was an experimental car that nobody knows about. , which makes me question whether you know what you are talking about really.


I love SMG. I don't think it's any less satisfying than a manual. After all, both achieve the same end result, a new gear, but with a different method of execution. The satisfaction comes from changing the gear at the right time for optimum performance. SMG also requires a certain level of skill to get the changes right. I think there's a lot of macho posturing by people who think that if they say they prefer a 'stick' as opposed to SMG, it makes them a higher skilled driver.

The truth is, unless you are a semi-amateur or professional racing driver there is no way you can get the same performance from the car with a stick as opposed to the SMG.
Your probably right it was some sort of tip tronic box just assumed that it was a DSG as audi own them thought they would have planted it in, so pressumed it was! sorry stand corrected!! but still stand by the fact that a manual is the best way to go if you wanna have the full experiance of a M car!! and yes your right about the quickness of smg ova manual but come on lets be serious, if you wanna go for sheer outright performance go for the CSL version everything stripped out bar the seats, if you want the M3 its prob gonna be 90% DD 10% track! peace!!
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      04-20-2007, 10:05 AM   #14
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DSG for Sunday drivers, Manual for drivers. Easy!
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      04-20-2007, 10:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
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maybe he drove a Gellado engine car lol
like S6 with DSG...lol
fun may not be all about performance tho.....more things to touch around might be fun for somebody
I was just trying to provide a little insight into auto experiance against manual, sorry my knowledge of engine n trannys is not as indepth as yours. May be a test should be implemented to make sure only a certain standard of people are allowed to join the forum, and no i dont go down that way if that was what you were implying.
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      04-20-2007, 11:43 AM   #16
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i know im late but I owned an SMG E46 M3

I had the best time of my life but I wasnt experienced in 6 speed as much (so what you really don't know abou tdoesnt bother you)
but i feel that the E92 M3 (with more experience in manual) is probably going to be "funner" than DSG.. even though DSG may befaster

What bothered me with SMG also is that every year the SMG "got better" and you can easily screw up the tranny and lose the car for1 year....

the 1800 l.c. block (european cars are chill because they are 3000)

and i asked a lot of people on M3forum.net and we talked about the joy of SMG and they all said that 95% of the time (for me 99%) they drive the smg shifting program, it is annoying to drive Auto on an M3....

so basically the difference within 6speed and DSG (without time factor which will be small) is that you are pushing the clutch on 6 speed and you can choose what gear you go into in the canyons for a nice turn etc.

I loved my SMG M3 but now I am going to give my 6speed a chance...

"if i dnt like it I will trade it in for DSG later"
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      04-20-2007, 01:37 PM   #17
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does the dsg have peddals?
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      04-20-2007, 01:50 PM   #18
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I thought I might chime in here...
Currently I have a car with DSG. My previous car was a manual so Ive had both.
Fact: Nothing is more exciting than feeling the power of the car through the shift lever in a manual car. Rowing your gears is a different feeling...you feel the power and the car.

Fact: DSG is freaking amazing. Super fast shifts (4 milliseconds if im not mistaken and faster/smoother than SMG) Perfect rev matches at all times
I love my DSG but you do miss rowing the gears I'll tell you that much. The paddles do make it a lot better however.

Its all a matter on your tastes. If you love rowing gears then stick with the manual. DSG is butter, its lightning fast and smooth, but I do miss driving a manual. It requires less skill with the DSG, only have to find the good shift points whereas a standard makes you feel like you are driving the car. But I still dont regret my decision
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      04-20-2007, 03:10 PM   #19
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SMG ( or the new DCT in this situation)

is faster than any human, better performance

more easier to use in daily life (manual in rush hour, is hell)

the flappy pedals behind the steering wheel is more fun (imo), its more like a racing car and doing the F1 launch is much much fun and cool than dropping the clutch on a manual...
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      04-20-2007, 03:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
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DSG for Sunday drivers, Manual for drivers. Easy!
Funny. Because in a time trial w/ professional drivers of the same skill level, the DSG driver would have the advantage.
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      04-20-2007, 03:27 PM   #21
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does the dsg have peddals?
Nope....nanobots do everything. They've got ya covered.
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      04-20-2007, 03:53 PM   #22
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Nope....nanobots do everything. They've got ya covered.
In that case the DSG is like a better automatic. The driver just presses the gas pedal and steers the wheel. I would much rather accelerate a bit slower but be fully interacting with the car in a car like the M3. Coming from the E60 M5 with the SMG III, I was hoping that the DSG would have paddles. The SMG is awesome IMO, because of the fast shifts and perfect downshifts it is a blast to drive on winding roads or even regular straight roads. You really fell like you are driving a F1 car. I doubt that it will be this thrilling in the DSG.
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