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      01-29-2011, 03:29 AM   #67
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+1 M3 and 911 definitely NOT the Supercar....just nice and great Sports car!!
Supercar are like Enzo Zonda LFA etc.........!!
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      01-29-2011, 03:53 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOM3JO View Post
+1 M3 and 911 definitely NOT the Supercar....just nice and great Sports car!!
Supercar are like Enzo Zonda LFA etc.........!!
Well, according to BMW, the M3 is a Racecar........i.e. "Racecars shouldn't be confined to racetracks."
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      01-29-2011, 04:01 AM   #69
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Here's my take...

supercar = exceptionally high performance

exotic = exceptionally low representation

exotic supercar = exceptionally high performance with exceptionally low representation

examples :
Z06 = supercar but not exotic
exige = exotic but not supercar
LP640 = exotic supercar


What the cutoff points are, ends up being a personal issue.
How high must the performance be to qualify as a supercar? (faster than 99% of other cars? 99.9%? 99.99%? 99.999%? etc)
How few should there be to qualify as an exotic? (1% of all cars? 0.1%? 0.01%? 0.001%? etc)

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      01-29-2011, 04:02 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
Here's my take...

supercar = exceptionally high performance

exotic = exceptionally low representation

exotic supercar = exceptionally high performance with exceptionally low representation

examples :
Z06 = supercar but not exotic
exige = exotic but not supercar
LP640 = exotic supercar

-scheherazade
well said..
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      01-29-2011, 06:07 AM   #71
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      01-29-2011, 07:55 AM   #72
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i think 110k for a ZR-1 your not poor. neither is 70 or 80 k for an M3.there's people that cant even buy a KIA.
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      01-29-2011, 08:58 AM   #73
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a supercomputer is the most expensive and fastest computer for that era. I think this can be applied to supercar as well. In BMW circles, super car would be the M1. For Porsche it would be the 959, GT1, CGT, and now the 918. Ferrari would be the F40, F50, Enzo, P4/5. Other super cars as I would call it would be the Bug Veyron, EB110, McClaren F1. Super cars rarely are alone in an owners collection. I have met owners of some very cool cars such as 1 of 3 GT1's in Germany and a few F40 owners. I always ask what else they have in their collections. the response usually involves many other expensive cars, some aircraft, and a hangar to hold them in. compared to these guys, i'm poor, but it sure is nice to hang out with them. for now, i'll stick to the uninteresting vw bug with the engine on the wrong side, the super 3 series sedan, and a v8 mid-engined fiat.
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      01-29-2011, 09:36 AM   #74
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It's hard to muster up the energy to give a shit somedays isnt it.
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      01-29-2011, 10:44 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by das144 View Post
Joe Blow also cant tell a GT3 or Turbo S apart from a base 911- just saying...
And you think Mr. Blow can tell the difference between an M3 and a 335?...just saying

The term "poor man's this or that" is just a ridiculous statement. It would be better to say "those that can't (or elect not to) buy a Ferrari, Lambo, Pagani, etc." have great performance car options like a 911, Z06, m3, GT-R, et al. Anybody that can afford a $60K-100K car is far from poor. Having said that, I know plenty of people that have more money than god and elect to drive a Buick. We all know that judging someone's wealth by the car they drive is a worthless exercise.
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      01-29-2011, 10:54 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211 View Post
And you think Mr. Blow can tell the difference between an M3 and a 335?...just saying

The term "poor man's this or that" is just a ridiculous statement. It would be better to say "those that can't (or elect not to) buy a Ferrari, Lambo, Pagani, etc." have great performance car options like a 911, Z06, m3, GT-R, et al. Anybody that can afford a $60K-100K car is far from poor. Having said that, I know plenty of people that have more money than god and elect to drive a Buick. We all know that judging someone's wealth by the car they drive is a worthless exercise.
I think that "Poor Man's" was used as a figure of speach. Certainly an M3 owner, or an M3 leaser for that matter, is not poor and $60,000 plus is not an insignificant amount of money and I did not get the impression that the OP was implying that it was.

It seems clear from this thread that whether the M3 is a supercar (poor man's or otherwise) depends on the definition of supercar, which as we have seen not everyone agrees on.


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      01-29-2011, 11:25 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211 View Post
And you think Mr. Blow can tell the difference between an M3 and a 335?...just saying

The term "poor man's this or that" is just a ridiculous statement. It would be better to say "those that can't (or elect not to) buy a Ferrari, Lambo, Pagani, etc." have great performance car options like a 911, Z06, m3, GT-R, et al. Anybody that can afford a $60K-100K car is far from poor. Having said that, I know plenty of people that have more money than god and elect to drive a Buick. We all know that judging someone's wealth by the car they drive is a worthless exercise.
This thread wasn't intended to discuss about judging anyone's wealth by what they drive. Lets face it, we drive what we drive because of the emotions that a car evokes in us. Who really gives a shit what the next guy thinks about your wealth. We all know that most M3 owners are far from poor. Once again, just a "figure of speech". An M3 is by no means a "super car", but it definitely provides a great driving experience for a great value and practicality for most of us. 80K for an M3 isn't exactly cheap but when you consider prices of 911 Turbo's or GT3's 2009 - 2010 hovering around 100K, isn't as a far reach for super car driving experience as an F-car or Lambo. The real question is, is the M3 that transitional car or are most of us going to continue to buy the next M3, generation after generation. For me, this is my 3rd M3 and it is a transitional car into a Turbo.
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      01-29-2011, 11:48 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ooowowizstev View Post
M3 is a rich man's Civic.
True, if it is not a ZCP
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      01-29-2011, 12:26 PM   #79
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I try not to see any car as a "step-up" into any other one. Speaking from experience, I will tell you that choosing a car will always be a combination of budget and needs. I am about to place an order for a 2011 M3 ZCP, and I am coming from a 2009 997 Turbo. The last time I checked, I do not feel like I am doing a "step-down" per se. I just have always wanted an M3.

So, my answer to Redduck1's question: It's not a transitional car for me, and I feel like I will likely continue getting M3s going forward until I get bored. I just drive what I like regardless of the $. Drive it because you want to.
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      01-29-2011, 12:44 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redduck1 View Post
The reason why I pose this question is that there is another thread on the forum about why people love Porsches so much. Is the 911 praised for it's around practicallity (i.e. price, quality, and depenabaliltiy) ? Is it the true next step into a super car, but not so high in the stratosphere that is too high to reach like the Ferarri and Lambo? For me, the 911 Turbo has always been a dream since childhood. I knew that I would not reach my pinnicale unitl I have one. And I'm getting closer all the time to it. But for now, my M3 is good enough for what I want it for and what I can afford at this time in my life. This is my third M3, I've had a E36, E46, and now E92. Loved them all, but I'm always longing for that 911 Turbo. With the price of M3's now reaching almost 80k, it's not too far away from P-car prices, especially if you consider certified pre-own cars under 5000 miles and close to 100K for 2009 Turbos. What do you guys think? Is the M3 that transitional car or are we all just going to buy M3 after M3?
yes and the plan is to get a porsche turbo convertable
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      01-31-2011, 01:23 AM   #81
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I had to say this, and I figured this would be a good topic.

The way M3 starts-up is kinda like a super car. The way the starter sounds, relatively long whiny tiny sound, and then the sudden growl of the V8. Of course the retarded gong f**ks it up at the end, but still, it is a good way to start up
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      01-31-2011, 01:29 AM   #82
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Quote:
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The way M3 starts-up is kinda like a super car. The way the starter sounds, relatively long whiny tiny sound, and then the sudden growl of the V8. Of course the retarded gong f**ks it up at the end, but still, it is a good way to start up
... dude, come on.
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      01-31-2011, 06:52 AM   #83
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Supercar



Expensive sports car



A sportscar



In these days of 7 figure cars then super car is reserved for the really top end stuff. For me even a 599 GTO isnt a supercar. A supercar has to really stand out and break new ground.
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      02-01-2011, 09:54 AM   #84
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Quote:
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Is The M3 "The Poor Man's Super Car"?... Is a good philosophical question, so let's not get entangled in the definition of rich or poor.

Another way to look at it is this... Given unlimited funds, would the M3 still be our favorite car of choice? Or is the M3 a compromise for something else you or I would prefer to be driving? I must venture to say YES, the M3 is the Poor Man's Super Car.

I purchased an E90 because I have a practical need for 4-doors to accommodate an occasional family outing. I also wanted an all-in-one daily driver with performance power and handling to spice up my commute.

All the money in the world? The Aston Martin Rapide would have been ideal... starting at $199,950. Too rich for my blood... for now.

I suppose a typical E92 driver would prefer to be in a GT3RS... starting at $135,500. Only double the price of an M3.

Certainly, who is poor or rich for these numbers is relative.
.

On reflection, I would like to retract some of what I said and put forth the idea that the M3 should never aspire to supercar status.

A supercar cannot be a daily driver. It would be absurd to purchase a $200K Aston Martin Rapide and commute in bumper-to-bumper traffic to work on a daily basis no matter how many doors the Aston may have.

For this reason, I submit that the M3 E90 is the ultimate performance daily driver comparable to the RS4, C63, etc. As far as the E92 coupe, there are a number of respectable comparables in performance and prestige (i.e., Porsche, Corvette, etc.)

What do they all have in common? However you may describe them, they're also good daily drivers.
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      02-01-2011, 10:12 AM   #85
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I'm waiting for the all new '12 911
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      02-01-2011, 11:34 AM   #86
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While I realize it's just a figure of speech, I cringe every time I see the words "poor man" and any BMW product mentioned together.

There are a few such threads over on the 1M forum too. Lets be clear-BMWs are unfathonable purchases to any person who is truly "poor", or part of the "working poor" class who can barely afford a bus ticket, let alone their own vehicle.

Just a pet peeve of mine!
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      02-01-2011, 11:52 AM   #87
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The number of people who don't appreciate what they have is disgusting.

ZR1s and GTRs are some peoples Dream car...

Then again, a roof over ones head and food to eat is a dream for others.

Go read a book and learn some perspective.
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      02-01-2011, 02:18 PM   #88
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^ I agree its misplaced.

In order to add substance to the thread, I think there are much better bang for the buck performers to call a poor mans supercar than the M3.

The Z06 is one of them
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