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      01-19-2011, 12:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintpro21 View Post
I would recommend you go the 9.5/10.5 route as your car can easily handle the 10.5" rear.
Gearhead999s, thanks for the feedback. Thinking about the tracks I'm running on, I'd say I'm in 2nd once/twice per track. Mostly 3rd, get into 4th on the straights. Based on what you've said, I'm thinking square might still be okay for me.

paintpro21, What about the 10F/10.5R combo vs. square? I had 285 RE-11s (on the OEM 19x9.5 wheel) on my rear last year, moving away from street tires this year and am loathe to give up any rear width... $$ savings by rotating back to front is less important, more important to me is the performance & predictability in handling.
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      01-19-2011, 03:18 PM   #24
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What about the Kumho XS or Falkens in 315/30-18 for a rear tire? I know a few people have used similar widths and offsets with 315 street tires on the rear, but who knows what kind of alignment or fender massaging is necessary.

The BFG drag radials are available in that size too. Just an idea, might be a good combo with the Apex 10.5" wheel if you're trying to hook up 500+whp in some of these supercharged applications.
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      01-19-2011, 03:47 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by R A W L S View Post
Will running wider tires on the 10" rim make a measurable difference, or do I need to run the wider tires in conjunction with the wider 10.5" wheel to see a difference?
The wider the wheel is the more sidewall support you provide the tire. Each wheel width can accept a range of tire sizes but as you get to the limit in either direction (narrow or wide) there are things to consider. I'll just go over putting wide tires onto the wheels and ignore stretched rubber as there is no E9X that would need to under-size their tires on these wheels.

As you pass the optimal tire width for a wheel and continue to increase width, you start to bulge the sidewall. Under turning the sidewall of progressively wider tires will each flex/roll over more. This flex slows down the turning response of the car (what people generally define as being sharp when working well). Too much rubber will give a sloppy feel, with poor feedback. You can get the same feel from luxury oriented tires with soft sidewalls that roll over easily under turning. When you go too wide, you also start to pull tread up off the ground near the sidewalls. So in effect you are making the tire narrower by putting it on a narrow wheel. The opposite effect is true for stretching a tire. When a tire manufacturer lists section widths, they'll note what wheel width was used. A wider wheel would increase section width/usable tread by a fraction of an inch. Because of this, a 285+ will effectively be wider then on a 10" wheel, give you more grip and stability.

The 10" wheels are optimal with a 275. 285 is still perfectly fine on a 10" wheel. even a 295 would be alright, but would begin to show signs of bulging. There are so few 10.5" wheels on the market, that most club racers have been running 285's on 10" wheels for years. If they had the choice or the room, they would run them on a 10.5" wheel. For that reason we're seeing a huge amount of interest for the 10.5" size from club racers running 285's or wider.

If you already own 10" wheels, then there's no problem running a 285 or even a 295. The slight decrease in performance is probably not worth getting new wheels. If you're getting a new set, then 10.5" wheels are the right choice for anything wider then 275. You could even run a 305 or 315 on the 10.5" wheel but that's at the limits of those tires, and the sloppiness of the overly wide tire would not out perform narrower, better fitting sizes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnvrdrvr View Post
Gearhead999s, thanks for the feedback. Thinking about the tracks I'm running on, I'd say I'm in 2nd once/twice per track. Mostly 3rd, get into 4th on the straights. Based on what you've said, I'm thinking square might still be okay for me.

paintpro21, What about the 10F/10.5R combo vs. square? I had 285 RE-11s (on the OEM 19x9.5 wheel) on my rear last year, moving away from street tires this year and am loathe to give up any rear width... $$ savings by rotating back to front is less important, more important to me is the performance & predictability in handling.
a 10/10.5 or 9.5/10.5 stagger will perform very similarly in comparison to a 10" square setup, as it will mostly be tire size dependent. Both those staggered setups would use the same rear tire, and the only question would be are you going with a 265 or 275 front tire. The idea as mentioned before is the staggered setup would avoid the sensation over oversteer by reducing front grip. I'm not a huge fan of reducing the performance of one part, to change the feel of something. I would personally just drive a car differently that has a square setup.

If you're set on running a 295 rear then you have to run a staggered setup. You can't get a 295 to fit up front so square is out of the question. To determine your front wheel width, just see what front tire sizes are available in the RE-11. If it's a 265 then you'd be fine with the 9.5's. If it's a 275 then get the 10's. It's as simple as that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot
What about the Kumho XS or Falkens in 315/30-18 for a rear tire? I know a few people have used similar widths and offsets with 315 street tires on the rear, but who knows what kind of alignment or fender massaging is necessary.

The BFG drag radials are available in that size too. Just an idea, might be a good combo with the Apex 10.5" wheel if you're trying to hook up 500+whp in some of these supercharged applications.
You are correct. a 315/30/18 could be mounted. For 500+ whp guys that could be the right choice if their primary goal is straight line power. Should a 315 be mounted on an 11.5-12" wheel? Yes. Does the M3 have room for that? No. So compromises have to be made. Doing so won't be terrible, it just isn't performing 100% optimally. That's what makes it hard to give fitment advice, as "better performance" doesn't mean the same thing for everyone. Time savings and setup for track, autocross and drag are different, and the costs of each minor improvement can really start to add up.

The most recent car running 315/30's on a 10.5" wheel clearly had rear inner fender lips rolled flat, and they dialed in a lot of negative camber. That much rear negative camber will have major inner tire wear issues on the street and the track. You're also not using the full width of the tire, so you could start to ask yourself if a narrower tire with less camber would yield the same grip or better.

Last edited by Eddy@ApexRaceParts; 01-19-2011 at 04:04 PM.
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      01-19-2011, 04:38 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintpro21 View Post
The idea as mentioned before is the staggered setup would avoid the sensation over oversteer by reducing front grip. I'm not a huge fan of reducing the performance of one part, to change the feel of something.
Or... is the square setup used to avoid understeer thats a result of not having enough grip up front? I dealt with a fair amount of understeer on certain corners (those switchback/180-degrees types) and is why I'm leaning towards a square setup for this next year. I wonder if it's because I had a 255F and 285R setup and if decreasing the F-to-R differential to something like 275F/285R would do the trick. (I know this is pretty OT to the initial intent of the thread here - but I appreciate your responses.) So, here's a on-topic question: If I did the 10F/10.5R setup, would any spacers be required? I know the Group Buy thread states No, but it seems odd that the 10" square setup has the same offsets F & R, would think a 10" front wheel would need something.
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      01-19-2011, 05:30 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnvrdrvr View Post
Or... is the square setup used to avoid understeer thats a result of not having enough grip up front? I dealt with a fair amount of understeer on certain corners (those switchback/180-degrees types) and is why I'm leaning towards a square setup for this next year. I wonder if it's because I had a 255F and 285R setup and if decreasing the F-to-R differential to something like 275F/285R would do the trick. (I know this is pretty OT to the initial intent of the thread here - but I appreciate your responses.) So, here's a on-topic question: If I did the 10F/10.5R setup, would any spacers be required? I know the Group Buy thread states No, but it seems odd that the 10" square setup has the same offsets F & R, would think a 10" front wheel would need something.
This is on topic as everyone has to go through the same decision making process. Once people get more of these setups mounted and pictures posted we can start including more specific fitment data/reviews. And I'll include that data in the first post.

No spacers are needed at all. Those offsets are perfect both front and rear for those width wheels. Members are already running 18x10" square setups with 275 r-compounds front and rear. It even bolts on to a 100% stock car with no camber plates, suspension mods or anything.

For you specifically a 275/285 or 275/295 combo would work well.
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      01-19-2011, 05:47 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintpro21 View Post
This is on topic as everyone has to go through the same decision making process. Once people get more of these setups mounted and pictures posted we can start including more specific fitment data/reviews.


Quote:
Originally Posted by paintpro21 View Post
No spacers are needed at all. Those offsets are perfect both front and rear for those width wheels. Members are already running 18x10" square setups with 275 r-compounds front and rear. It even bolts on to a 100% stock car with no camber plates, suspension mods or anything.

For you specifically a 275/285 or 275/295 combo would work well.
Thanks. I'm in for the group buy... 10" square (changed it from 10/10.5). I figure that gives me the option to play with F-to-R staggered by 10mm or square to see what I like ... given there are tire sizes available of course. FWIW, I have the Ground Control conversion kit - bought specifically so I can play with camber up front bc the stock setup literally ate my OEM PS2s in 3 DE events. I'l probably start with the BFG R1's since they seem to have a good rep & some width options (265, 275, 285). Looks like 275 is the only option for the Nitto NT01; they force you square there. Any other recommendations on wrapping them up?
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      01-25-2011, 03:42 PM   #29
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This may sound strange, but I am actually considering picking up a set of Apex Arc-8's for winter wheel duty. They are nice 18" wheels, that come in satin black at a good price.

I use the ZCP wheels for summer, with 15mm spacers in front and 12mm spacers in the rear.

Now, I would like to use a set of Arc-8's that would accommodate the spacers (so that I am not taking them on and off each year).

I know that I would also prefer more narrow wheels for winter. I think 9.5" all around is probably as wide as I could go, but I see that there are 8.5" versions for the 3-series. Do you have a recommendation for some aggressive looking fitments for the 8.5" wheel on an M3 with the spacers I mentioned above? If not, what about for the 9.5" wheel?
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      01-25-2011, 04:08 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3ns4n View Post
This may sound strange, but I am actually considering picking up a set of Apex Arc-8's for winter wheel duty. They are nice 18" wheels, that come in satin black at a good price.

I use the ZCP wheels for summer, with 15mm spacers in front and 12mm spacers in the rear.

Now, I would like to use a set of Arc-8's that would accommodate the spacers (so that I am not taking them on and off each year).

I know that I would also prefer more narrow wheels for winter. I think 9.5" all around is probably as wide as I could go, but I see that there are 8.5" versions for the 3-series. Do you have a recommendation for some aggressive looking fitments for the 8.5" wheel on an M3 with the spacers I mentioned above? If not, what about for the 9.5" wheel?
There's never been a paint issue with a single ARC-8 wheel to date, but as a general rule for all wheels, I would say that any satin/matte/semi-gloss wheel will be more vulnerable to the elements then a wheel with a full gloss clear coat.

To keep your winter setup narrow you'd want to use the 18x9.5" et22 rear wheel. The 18x8.5" and 18x9" wheels are high offset as they are not E9X M3 specific. If you were to use your 15mm spacers up front they would fit fine, but they would be relatively conservative aesthetically in comparison to your summer setup, as the summer setup is adding spacers to already low offsets.

But if you're focused on winter function first, and the look of the wheel is just a bonus, then that setup would be fine.
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      01-25-2011, 04:15 PM   #31
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Thanks for the quick response.

So, 18x9.5" et22 on all 4 corners, then? Those should fit fine with the 15mm (F) and 12mm (R) spacers you think?

Also, if the ARC-8's come in gloss / clear coat black, that would be great!
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      01-25-2011, 04:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Thanks for the quick response.

So, 18x9.5" et22 on all 4 corners, then? Those should fit fine with the 15mm (F) and 12mm (R) spacers you think?

Also, if the ARC-8's come in gloss / clear coat black, that would be great!
No, not 18x9.5" all around.

18x9.5" et22 in the rear only. No spacer needed, but if you want yo u can push it out with the 12's for aesthetics only. Not sure I'd want to push out my winter setup.

18x8.5" front with 15mm spacer.

They do not come in a full gloss finish. Just satin finish.

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      01-25-2011, 04:59 PM   #33
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Thanks!

I will plan on:
FRONT: 18x8.5" et38
REAR: 18x9.5" et22
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      01-26-2011, 01:38 AM   #34
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I plan on getting the 10 all around on my e90. The smaller brembo kit fits ok (365)?
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      01-26-2011, 11:47 PM   #35
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I plan on getting the 10 all around on my e90. The smaller brembo kit fits ok (365)?
365mm Brembos are not an issue

**18x10's on an E46 with the 365mm kit**


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      01-30-2011, 12:10 AM   #36
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paintpro.

I signed for the 18x10 square set up. Clears stoptech 380 BBK fine but wont clear brembos, in some other tread you mention a solution is under development. Can you tell me when is that solution gonna be available?, will it be the same face as the ARC-8 wheel? is this new wheel the aero 7 you are advertising?. Thanks in advance for the reply.
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      01-30-2011, 10:52 PM   #37
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paintpro.

I signed for the 18x10 square set up. Clears stoptech 380 BBK fine but wont clear brembos, in some other tread you mention a solution is under development. Can you tell me when is that solution gonna be available?, will it be the same face as the ARC-8 wheel? is this new wheel the aero 7 you are advertising?. Thanks in advance for the reply.
It will be an entirely new wheel design. Realistically we won't see it for 6+ months, as it's not even finalized on paper yet.
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      01-31-2011, 01:08 PM   #38
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Smile Which ET is better ET35 or ET22 for front?

I'm thinking of setting up my car has 380stoptech with ARC-8 wheels. But there are two ETs for front. So I wonder which ET would give us the better handling on the race track.
When I get this wheel, I'll have 265/35F and 285/30R tires.
I have tried 245 20inch ET22 F tires but the handling became terrible, this time I'd like to find the best balance on 18inch track set up with ET35 or ET22 wheels.
Does anyone has ET35 on M3 has good handling?
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      02-02-2011, 09:01 PM   #39
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I'm thinking of setting up my car has 380stoptech with ARC-8 wheels. But there are two ETs for front. So I wonder which ET would give us the better handling on the race track.
When I get this wheel, I'll have 265/35F and 285/30R tires.
I have tried 245 20inch ET22 F tires but the handling became terrible, this time I'd like to find the best balance on 18inch track set up with ET35 or ET22 wheels.
Does anyone has ET35 on M3 has good handling?
The offset you want for the front is 18x9.5" et22.

handling is not an issue when it comes to offset. Autocross drivers would prefer the highest offset possible to keep their cars narrow for the slalom. Street drivers prefer wide setups for aesthetic/stance purposes. For the track, it should be a matter of function. Does your tire fit at et35 or et22? At et35 you will not be able to mount an r-compound without a spacer. ET22 does not require a spacer as the wheel is already the correct offset.

285/30/18 for the rear is shorter then preferred. 285/35/18 would be a better rear size in that width.

But a redline time attack E92 M3 did just fine on 265/35/18 on the 18x9.5" et35 wheels + spacer, and 18x10" wheels with 285/30/18 AD08's.
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      02-03-2011, 01:20 PM   #40
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I like. Where are the prices though?
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      02-03-2011, 03:13 PM   #41
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On the apexraceparts.com site, $344 for the 10.5's, less for the 10's and even less for the 9.5's
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      02-03-2011, 04:26 PM   #42
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I like. Where are the prices though?
This is a technical article, and not a commercial thread. We're only discussing fitment and the best way to setup an E9X M3 for performance driving. There are commercial posts in the commercial section of this forum.
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      02-05-2011, 01:23 AM   #43
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Do you have any good pictures of anthecite on a light colored car? All your links on the 1st page are satin black.
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      02-05-2011, 07:26 PM   #44
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Do you have any good pictures of anthecite on a light colored car? All your links on the 1st page are satin black.
We have no mounted photos of E9X with Anthracite. I know there are numerous owners with that wheel finish including some local buyers, but no photos have been posted or provided yet.
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