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      05-17-2010, 08:52 AM   #67
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After spending 5 years commuting 500 miles round trip every friday and sunday on the autobahn and getting stuck in dreary 5-6-7 hour long traffic jams I dumped my love for a MT. I had a complete set of muscles in my clutch leg from in and out in and out.... hours on end. If I am going to drop 62k+ on a vehicle..... I want the option to shift if I so desire and to drive like a lazy ass if I dont want to. It is all a matter of preference I suppose. I like OPTIONS!!!
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      05-17-2010, 09:00 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Advantages of DCT(not in any particular order, except the first):
  • DCT is THE single option that will make the car have better performance, straights and twisties (it is very close to a 6MT with 440 hp and 320 ft lb torque)
  • DCT is customizeable through software (perhaps both BMW and other)
  • Manual modes via paddles and stick and automatic mode for traffic jams, comfort or inexperienced drivers
  • DCT allows one to focus on more cerebral and challenging aspects of performance driving
  • DCT provides better fuel economy
  • Launch control should be fun, fast and consistent
  • No "money shifts" with DCT
  • DCT is race technology for the road and BMW claims it is designed for race level "abuse"
  • Rev matched downshifts
  • The inherently smooth shifts with DCT may provide less shock and better wear of some transmission components
  • Clutch pedals are so 1950s

Advantages of MT:
  • Simplicity and perhaps reliability
  • False pride in your rowing abilities enabled by MT
+1 well said
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      05-17-2010, 09:27 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cameba5 View Post
im so proud of BMW for producing such amazing technology as DCT, but i went 6MT...its just so sexy, and pure. Yeah, you DCT guys will get me by 0.2 seconds. But i'm ok with that. the point is: the M3 is simply amazing no matter what changes the gears.

peace
BMW outsources most of their transmissions . The 328 Steptronic is sourced from GM the 335i Steptronic is sourced from ZF and the DCT is made by Getrag. I believe the MTs also come from Getrag.

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      05-17-2010, 09:31 PM   #70
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I jump off my left leg when I play basketball because it's so strong from clutching. I don't think I would be able to grab the rim if I had a DCT.
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      05-17-2010, 10:31 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mx3 View Post
My Top 6:
1. Performance (quicker acceleration)
2. Versatility (3 ways to drive, paddle shift, full auto, or gear shifting sequentially)
3. Ease for traffic driving
4. No clutch depression bodes well for not worsening my chronic back issue any further
5. Less shifting effort than in MT allows you to concerntrate on others things as you rapidly go through the gears and allows you to pay better attention on redline shifting etc..
6. Launch Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Advantages of DCT(not in any particular order, except the first):
  • DCT is THE single option that will make the car have better performance, straights and twisties (it is very close to a 6MT with 440 hp and 320 ft lb torque)
  • DCT is customizeable through software (perhaps both BMW and other)
  • Manual modes via paddles and stick and automatic mode for traffic jams, comfort or inexperienced drivers
  • DCT allows one to focus on more cerebral and challenging aspects of performance driving
  • DCT provides better fuel economy
  • Launch control should be fun, fast and consistent
  • No "money shifts" with DCT
  • DCT is race technology for the road and BMW claims it is designed for race level "abuse"
  • Rev matched downshifts
  • The inherently smooth shifts with DCT may provide less shock and better wear of some transmission components
  • Clutch pedals are so 1950s

Advantages of MT:
  • Simplicity and perhaps reliability
  • False pride in your rowing abilities enabled by MT
This says it all for me. I love the versatility and technological advantages. I see no reason why not to embrace the technological wonder of DCT. People compare moving a lever in the center console to pulling a paddle on the steering column like they are two different things. They aren't, the technology behind it is different but the concept is the same. Fact is one is faster than the other. Also one provides versatility and allows the complex and the simple minded to drive the same car. Not that simple is bad, but more that some want to be less troubled. I know now my GF can't drive stick. If for some reason she ever needed to drive the car now she can. One is better from a performance stability perspective, the other is better for a mental satisfaction frame of mind. Is someone in less or more control of the car in a 6MT vs a DCT? no I think they are even. Someone shifts two gears down to take a turn, I click my paddle twice before I get in a turn... same deal. I live in NJ, traffic can suck occasionally. DCT wins for me. Also my shifts will be as quick as lightning...that is awesome. No money shifts, no missed gears, no taking my hands off the wheel to change gears in/before a turn, just pure excitement and comfort knowing I can relax and let the car do it's thing when I don't feel like shifting constantly.

Neither is better, but DCT fit my personal preference.
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      05-17-2010, 10:35 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waremark View Post
If you use S4/S5, the thump on full throttle upshifts can upset the car. . . On the downshifts, the blipped ones are perfect for track use, but the harsh upshifts are too high a price to pay in order to get the perfect downshifts, in my opinion.
I never thought of it that way, perhaps because my philosophy is that one should really only be mashing the throttle full when travelling virtually in a straight line. If you're going straight, I don't see how the the 'thump' can be a bad thing. Its worthwhile also keeping in mind that the upshift may be less likely to unsettle the car compared to a MT because it loses less forward momentum during a DCT upshift.

My advice would be to simply be somewhat less aggressive with the throttle when accelerating in turns I suppose, but I'll give this some more thought next time I'm on the track.
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      05-17-2010, 11:18 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waremark View Post

Currently, I am compromising by using S1, and using Heel and Toe for smoother downshifts - this seems a ridiculous compromise with such a sophisticated transmission, but it works. In a couple of days I am getting my third software update to ISTA/P 37.2, because I read on this forum that it reduces the harshness of the S4/S5 upchanges. (First software update got rid of the not down-changing under heavy braking fault, second update got rid of the 'lag' - both done under warranty. This update I am paying for, quoted 120 ($180) because there is no specific fault to deal with.)
Too bad you have to pay for the upgrade. Are you sure your radio hasn't acted up???

FYI, I've had the upgrade for a few weeks now and the car has adapted now. S4 shifts are not as smooth as when I first picked it up after the firmware update, but they are better than before. On full throttle however, it is the same. The improvement is in part throttle short shifts. You can modulate the throttle at the shift point to smooth it out on full throttle, which is something I didn't try before, simply because I never used S4 and because I felt the pulsing was too much. It works pretty well, and is fairly natural to me since I owned an SMG M3 for five years and that was a learned technique.

Good luck

By the way, sorry for the thread jack, but this is such an old thread with such a worn out topic, I thought nobody would mind...
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      01-21-2011, 09:49 AM   #74
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Revising an old thread because I'm a new M3 owner:

I chose DCT even though I felt I had made a horrible enough mistake in '09 by buying a Carrera with Porsche's PDK. I traded that car for a 6mt Carrera S within 6 months and just took the enormous financial hit to have the manual transmission car I should have purchased in the first place.

However, I owned two 6MT E46 M3's and thoroughly test drove a couple of manual transmission E92 M3's before deciding on DCT for this particular car.

Porsche's manual transmissions are not to be missed. They are so smooth with perfect clutch pedal feel and linear engagement and the stick throw from on gear to another so effortless and with such a connected feel I swear you can feel the tranny fluid and all of the perfectly engineered moving parts through the shifter.

However, I'm not a fan of the shifter feel or clutch pedal take up on BMW's M3 whatsoever and it was a disappointing part of my E46 M3 ownership experience (although a heck of a lot better option than SMG or SMG II which, IMO, was horrific). While BMW seems to have improved the feel and functionality of the 6MT with the E90 cars it is still no where near as perfect feeling as Porsche's manual.

Personally, I love a properly design, great feeling manual, but I just don't feel BMW has got it right enough in the M cars to truly satisfy anyone who's owned considerably better feeling manual transmissions.

My 2010 335i, M Sport, manual tranny (short shifter with added weight) was perfect.......almost right there with the Porsche manual. You could shift gears so smoothly that passengers felt like they were riding in a car with a fantastic auto tranny, but the M cars have a different feel to their manual transmissions altogether versus the 335i M Sport's and I, for one, don't like it.

If the E9X Manual felt like the transmission in my 335i I would definitely have gone that direction with my M purchase.

Porsche = Manual Tranny
M3 = DCT

YM....obviously....MV!!
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      01-21-2011, 10:04 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
Hi!!

I know this has been discussed, but I was wondering if the people that are choosing the DCT can summarize the reason of their decision.
I have always been a MT person, and really get bored when I don't have a clutch, but if there are reasonable facts maybe I will have to go for the DCT. For example, the launch control feature is something I really would like to have.
Don't need the wife to learn how to drive any other sticks except mine.

Seriously though - she doesn't know how to drive a stick and I'm not about to have her learn on the M. Plus, I'm not a 6MT enthusiast so I like the ease and blisteringly (probably not a word) fast shifts of the DCT.
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      01-21-2011, 10:41 AM   #76
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The sad truth here is that many of you canT drive manual....
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      01-21-2011, 10:46 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post
The sad truth here is that many of you canT drive manual....

The even sadder truth is that a significant number of the people in that category own manuals.

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      01-21-2011, 10:54 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post
The sad truth here is that many of you canT drive manual....
Depends on what you mean by "can't drive". If you mean that they don't have race level skills, then I would agree. However, I'm sure they do have daily driving level skills.

I fall into that category. Could I optimize the full potential of a 6MT on a track? Hell no. Probably can't do that for a DCT either. But I can drive normally and comfortably every day!
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      01-21-2011, 11:04 AM   #79
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My meta-analysis:

This argument will go on forever with no conclusion. It will only end when we all end up in electric cars with no gearing. Haters gonna hate in both directions till the end of time. Many people realize this but will continue to contribute (myself included) because success in an internet forum debate does not mandate winning, it only requires that one's thoughts are acknowledged and perhaps validated by others (even if not agreed to).

Also, claims of butt hurt towards other participants in the debate always make internet discussions worth their while.
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      01-21-2011, 11:28 AM   #80
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DCT Driver

I chose DCT over manual, and I have been driving a stick since I had a 5 cyclinder Audi 90 back in 1994. I've always loved driving a manual as I enjoyed feeling "connected" to the car.

To make a long story short, I love driving the DCT. It really keeps me fully engaged when rowing through the gears. Downshifting is quicker and remarkably more fun than any Steptronic or "auto-manual" that I have ever driven. And when I am in traffic, I just click on over to "D" and let the car do the heavy-lifting.

I do miss driving a stick every once in a while and would love to have a weekend car with one. But, for the time being, I am certain that I have made a great choice - at least for me. Don't underestimate the potential of this DCT - it is a remarkable innovation.
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      01-21-2011, 11:28 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B R A N D X View Post
However, I'm not a fan of the shifter feel or clutch pedal take up on BMW's M3 whatsoever and it was a disappointing part of my E46 M3 ownership experience (although a heck of a lot better option than SMG or SMG II which, IMO, was horrific). While BMW seems to have improved the feel and functionality of the 6MT with the E90 cars it is still no where near as perfect feeling as Porsche's manual.

Personally, I love a properly design, great feeling manual, but I just don't feel BMW has got it right enough in the M cars to truly satisfy anyone who's owned considerably better feeling manual transmissions.
I hope you weren't basing your decision because of a test drive in an M3 with low miles. While I totally agree the BMW manual is nowhere near as good as Porche's, it does improve a lot with miles. After 10k or so it loosens up quite a bit and is less notchy.
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      01-21-2011, 11:56 AM   #82
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One thing that is never discussed is what the cost to "fix" a DCT transmission would be should it go defective outside of warranty. I plan on keeping my car for a very long time. Yeah sure, it's not like I couldn't afford to fix the car, but 5 years from now I'd probably rather drop that $3k-$5k on a vacation or a Porsche.
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      01-21-2011, 12:23 PM   #83
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Oh super, we haven't had a DCT vs 6M thread in the last 35 seconds, and lets start digging up old threads because you can't find a thread talking about this on each and every page on this forum.
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      01-21-2011, 12:39 PM   #84
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After driving in this damn LA traffic for 10 years I've finally said enough is enough. At least I can say I had both the 6mt and dct. No opinion on the dct yet as I don't have the car yet. When the roads are open the third pedal is so much fun but I don't see enough of that so I'm hoping I made the right choice!
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      01-21-2011, 12:45 PM   #85
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it's faster - you said "if you don't have a clutch you get bored" .. well the dct has two of them
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      01-21-2011, 12:52 PM   #86
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Let's face it. Aside from maybe 1 out of every 15 MT drivers on this entire forum, you guys can't properly drive a manual transmission to even give yourself an edge over a real slushbox steptronic.
DCT > 6MT in every way.
And all this talk about heel-toe. please, heel-toe shifting merely allows you to rev match (imperfectly I might add unless you're a professional driver) which DCT does a million times over with perfect execution, further allowing you to focus on more important things like braking, turn-in and exit.

Sorry, I just love throwing wood on the fire.
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      01-21-2011, 01:40 PM   #87
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Quote:
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Let's face it. Aside from maybe 1 out of every 15 MT drivers on this entire forum, you guys can't properly drive a manual transmission to even give yourself an edge over a real slushbox steptronic.
DCT > 6MT in every way.
And all this talk about heel-toe. please, heel-toe shifting merely allows you to rev match (imperfectly I might add unless you're a professional driver) which DCT does a million times over with perfect execution, further allowing you to focus on more important things like braking, turn-in and exit.

Sorry, I just love throwing wood on the fire.
People drive 6MT (me included) over DCT for the same reason that even poorly skilled home chefs like to cook. You might get a better end result by having somebody/something else do the work for you, but sometimes the real fun comes from learning and doing the work yourself.
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      01-21-2011, 01:44 PM   #88
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I think I will have a Peanut butter sandwich
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