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      01-18-2011, 06:02 PM   #23
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Your screen name.
great answer...seriously though you hit the nail on the head (and this is coming from a guy with a GTR)
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      01-18-2011, 07:24 PM   #24
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Your screen name.
hahaha great answer, waiting expectantly for the comeback..
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      01-18-2011, 11:33 PM   #25
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Your screen name.
And I bagged getting it in favor of an upgraded GT-R.
Again, your reasoning please.
BTW, that was a good come back.
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      01-19-2011, 11:42 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by 997GT3 View Post
And I bagged getting it in favor of an upgraded GT-R.
Again, your reasoning please.
BTW, that was a good come back.
Why not change your little avatar/icon picture to a GT-R?

I bet money was a factor when deciding to get the GT-R, actually I'd love to hear what you would get if you had 25-30% more budget to procure a vehicle, I bet it would not be a GT-R.

The GT-R is a facade, a low entry fee but supercar service, maintaince and treatment? The F is this ? the older Skyline GT-R could be a daily driver - now GT-R owners are forced to treat the GT-R like a garage queen...I see more people daily drive an SL AMG then a GT-R for the mere fear of what it will cost them.


Anyway my reasoning is two fold:
1. the GT-R goes against the grain when it comes to inspiration and rewarding the driver with feedback and communication with the road, the GT-R does everything to prevent this relationship by being heavier and how it's computer interacts with the road and driver.
2. GT-R owners pay too much and deal with too much bs, if you're going to get a supercar you might as well go all in.

I wouldn't say this is the fault of the owners, for the entry fee the GT-R is a great buy, but after day one I'd say not so much. Sure it's less than an R8 but the R8 owner deals with less bs and has a far sexier machine.

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You lost me after comparing the GTR to a GT2...
Yeah, I probably lost you when you were left behind a grade too...but what are we gonna do?

The point was that the GT-R lacks personality, it lacks that supercar swagger that doesn't come just with numbers it comes with the total package. While you may argue that this is an opinion, I would say that while the GT-R is in fact a supercar, it's very low on the list. Take any GT-R owners buget and add 20-30k and I promise you they will not get a GT-R. They will look to an R8, GT3, Maserati, 997 Turbo, AMG black Series, Aston Martin(all of which have a ton of appeal)

I personally think the GT-R has an identity crisis, at the end of the day it is a Nissan - the numbers are impressive but for Nissan, success lies in slaying the 50k-70k price range not supercars. If the GT-R was a competitor (in price range) of the M3, S5, IS-F, C63amg I think Nissan would make a lot more money and owners would have to deal with a lot less bs. Right now, at a nicely packaged GT-R@90k+service and maint, the potential owners are either thinking lease or a different car.


I would buy a GT-R if it not were for the price and the bs..and I am a bit bitter about it.[/
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      01-19-2011, 12:31 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Burn.

BTW, my point was that the GT2 (maybe you are confusing it with a GT3) is about $50K more than a GTR, so not really in the same class.

I seriously will never understand the hostility on this board, especially from new members. We all love cars, and I enjoy discussing them with most of the members here...
Shirley you jest, hostility? it was a light jab - especially in response to your passive aggressive comment which offered very little room for discussion, and it appears to me you were trying to disable my arguement on a technicality.

If you like to discuss, discuss...

GT2 is far in price but let's be fair here, the GT-R is a benchmark hunter, it's sheer creation was to go after anybody and everybody. It's deep blue, watson, a technological monster going after the best. It's natural to compare different classes when the GT-R is in the discussion. My point was about the sheer appeal and feeling of supercars, again I think that is where the GT-R is lacking.
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      01-19-2011, 12:36 PM   #28
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Why not change your little avatar/icon picture to a GT-R?

I bet money was a factor when deciding to get the GT-R, actually I'd love to hear what you would get if you had 25-30% more budget to procure a vehicle, I bet it would not be a GT-R.

The GT-R is a facade, a low entry fee but supercar service, maintaince and treatment? The F is this ? the older Skyline GT-R could be a daily driver - now GT-R owners are forced to treat the GT-R like a garage queen...I see more people daily drive an SL AMG then a GT-R for the mere fear of what it will cost them.


Anyway my reasoning is two fold:
1. the GT-R goes against the grain when it comes to inspiration and rewarding the driver with feedback and communication with the road, the GT-R does everything to prevent this relationship by being heavier and how it's computer interacts with the road and driver.
2. GT-R owners pay too much and deal with too much bs, if you're going to get a supercar you might as well go all in.

I wouldn't say this is the fault of the owners, for the entry fee the GT-R is a great buy, but after day one I'd say not so much. Sure it's less than an R8 but the R8 owner deals with less bs and has a far sexier machine.

The option of going to another GT-R over a GT3 wasn't a money issue . I was impressed with my first one and the 45 hp and suspension upgrades made it a no brainer. The 2012 GTR is just too big of a performance leap over the GT3. The GT3 was a car that I was looking at over a year ago. I already owned a GTR and CLK63 Black Series at the time I was going take the plunge. I parted with my Merc thinking I could use the GTR in the winter and the GT3 in the summer. An inflexible dealer and a little common sense snapped me out of that and I bought an X6M instead.

Frankly, I wasn't even considering a GT3 this time around. I was debating between a Turbo S and a GTR. Money played a factor there. Now I'm going to sit out the 911 platform until the 991 Turbo or GT3 appears. I will buy then.

Your comments are way off base on the GTR. Have you owned one? Have you driven one extensively? It just sounds like you're coughing up GT-R haterís rhetoric. When people start using nonsensical terms like "inspiration" and "facade" in critiques and saying it would lose its luster after a day my eyes roll way back. How is it a garage queen? Maintenance? Really? I drove one as DD for 19000 miles and my grand total for maintenance was $2000. Itís not cheap but itís hardly supercar expensive.

The GT3 is a great car(as are most 911s) but so is the GT-R. Anyone saying it isn't is either blinded by snobbery or ignorant.
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      01-19-2011, 01:15 PM   #29
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The option of going to another GT-R over a GT3 wasn't a money issue . I was impressed with my first one and the 45 hp and suspension upgrades made it a no brainer. The 2012 GTR is just too big of a performance leap over the GT3. The GT3 was a car that I was looking at over a year ago. I already owned a GTR and CLK63 Black Series at the time I was going take the plunge. I parted with my Merc thinking I could use the GTR in the winter and the GT3 in the summer. An inflexible dealer and a little common sense snapped me out of that and I bought an X6M instead.

Frankly, I wasn't even considering a GT3 this time around. I was debating between a Turbo S and a GTR. Money played a factor there. Now I'm going to sit out the 911 platform until the 991 Turbo or GT3 appears. I will buy then.

Your comments are way off base on the GTR. Have you owned one? Have you driven one extensively? It just sounds like you're coughing up GT-R hater’s rhetoric. When people start using nonsensical terms like "inspiration" and "facade" in critiques and saying it would lose its luster after a day my eyes roll way back. How is it a garage queen? Maintenance? Really? I drove one as DD for 19000 miles and my grand total for maintenance was $2000. It’s not cheap but it’s hardly supercar expensive.

The GT3 is a great car(as are most 911s) but so is the GT-R. Anyone saying it isn't is either blinded by snobbery or ignorant.
Wait...did I read this correctly, you are still waiting for a porsche?

Ok getting to the body of your reply, "non-sensical" & "critiques", my fear is that you are not a driver and therefore none of this makes sense to you, you are more of an accountant when it comes to cars, you merely crunch numbers and come out with a solution or answer. You can't do a SWOT analysis on what I'm talking about here, it's an approach, it's a formula it's a Quartz vs. Automatic,

Your cold hearted approach to cars does land you right into a GT-R, it's a perfect fit for you. But for the rest of us car lovers it goes back to the natural philosophy of racing as Colin Champman said "Adding power makes you faster on the straights, while subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." - the weight, and the technological attributes of the GT-R make it less of a car and more of a computer. Do you dispute this?

As for the price of services and maintanence, are you telling me that the average GT-R owner only pays $2,000 for 19,000 miles. BULLLLLLSHHHHHHH.......a set of tires will run you 2,000, not sure how you got to 20k on the Re070s without needing another set, I'm not sure how you got away with under 500 for transmission fluids, special oil changes, who rotated your tires? Should be doing that every 8-10k miles, how are you brake pads? By 25,000 miles I bet you will have spent anywhere from 6k-10k in total costs. If not you are totally babying the balls off of that car - which compliments my point of the special treatment of the GT-R.

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      01-19-2011, 03:11 PM   #30
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Wait...did I read this correctly, you are still waiting for a porsche?

Ok getting to the body of your reply, "non-sensical" & "critiques", my fear is that you are not a driver and therefore none of this makes sense to you, you are more of an accountant when it comes to cars, you merely crunch numbers and come out with a solution or answer. You can't do a SWOT analysis on what I'm talking about here, it's an approach, it's a formula it's a Quartz vs. Automatic,

Your cold hearted approach to cars does land you right into a GT-R, it's a perfect fit for you. But for the rest of us car lovers it goes back to the natural philosophy of racing as Colin Champman said "Adding power makes you faster on the straights, while subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." - the weight, and the technological attributes of the GT-R make it less of a car and more of a computer. Do you dispute this?

As for the price of services and maintanence, are you telling me that the average GT-R owner only pays $2,000 for 19,000 miles. BULLLLLLSHHHHHHH.......a set of tires will run you 2,000, not sure how you got to 20k on the Re070s without needing another set, I'm not sure how you got away with under 500 for transmission fluids, special oil changes, who rotated your tires? Should be doing that every 8-10k miles, how are you brake pads? By 25,000 miles I bet you will have spent anywhere from 6k-10k in total costs. If not you are totally babying the balls off of that car - which compliments my point of the special treatment of the GT-R.


Wow
So have you owned or extensively driven a GT-R? Or a GT3? Or a GT2? Or an R8? I'm guessing a guy that's "m3 dreaming" has not. And if that's the case you're the accountant in this little debate. Telling someone that has owned a GT-R for almost two years which way is up is bizarre.
BTW, my comment on the price of maintenance was without tires since that isn't covered by any car maker and would hardly be something that would cause an owner to make it a garage queen.
So have you owned or extensively driven a GT-R? Or do real drivers just magazine race?
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      01-19-2011, 03:51 PM   #31
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Wow.
Arrogance, ignorance, and silly assumptions.
So have you owned or extensively driven a GT-R? Or a GT3? Or a GT2? Or an R8? I'm guessing a guy that's "m3 dreaming" has not. And if that's the case you're the accountant in this little debate. Telling someone that has owned a GT-R for almost two years which way is up is bizarre.
BTW, my comment on the price of maintenance was without tires since that isn't covered by any car maker and would hardly be something that would cause an owner to make it a garage queen.
So have you owned or extensively driven a GT-R? Or do real drivers just magazine race?
You are like the shallow hal for cars yeah I test drove a GT-R, she was too fat for me but if you're into that go for it. "Your reality, is not everyone else's reality it's called third party perspective" (if anyone has seen the movie)

Stick to the basics here 997GT3 guy,
A. Driver being disconnected due to the weight and computer interaction.*
B. lack of supercar appeal, your avatar is my case and point.


*not even getting into AWD vs. RWD.
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      01-19-2011, 04:02 PM   #32
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You are like the shallow hal for cars yeah I test drove a GT-R, she was too fat for me but if you're into that go for it. "Your reality, is not everyone else's reality it's called third party perspective" (if anyone has seen the movie)

Stick to the basics here 997GT3 guy,
A. Driver being disconnected due to the weight and computer interaction.*
B. lack of supercar appeal, your avatar is my case and point.


*not even getting into AWD vs. RWD.


Just as I thought no extensive experience with the car and your argument just comes down to insulting me.
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      01-19-2011, 04:07 PM   #33
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^ You guys need your very own sub-forum.
I make you laugh, I'm here to f***'n amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny? (Goodfellas)

I still point and drool in awe when I see a GT-R especially on the track, nothing short of respect for the GT-R - I think it's outstanding.

Half of my tone/arguement is solely based on people engaging me in a debate. I'm not a GT-R owner so I'm not even sure what I'm doing in this thread - where am I?

GT-R
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      01-19-2011, 04:09 PM   #34
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I don't track my GTR but in 30,000km I've spent even less than 997GT3.

$800 for tranny & diff fluids. Did the change myself.

Plenty of brakes left too.

Chews up a set of tires every 10k. But my car isn't stock... anything with 500+ hp will eat tires.

I sense a creative writer in our midst.
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      01-19-2011, 04:09 PM   #35
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Just as I thought no extensive experience with the car and your argument just comes down to insulting me.
Will you just man up already and address the points, stop making this about you and me, make it about the common complaints with the GT-R.

Also, you realize I'm having fun - you should try to do the same.
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      01-19-2011, 04:26 PM   #36
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Will you just man up already and address the points, stop making this about you and me, make it about the common complaints with the GT-R.

Also, you realize I'm having fun - you should try to do the same.
Shallow Hal has addressed a number of your points.
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      01-19-2011, 09:07 PM   #37
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I ran a GT-R on the track today. It is nothing short of incredible the bang for the buck that this vehicle offers. It certainly is the easiest to drive close to the limit with the computer/electronic help. That being said, unless you're a pro driver, the GT-R will allow you to do things that you will be unable to accomplish in other supercars.

Followed it up with a Murcielago, Italia and 430 Scud. The GT-R doesn't have the exclusivity of the Italians, but omg does it perform like them!
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      01-20-2011, 08:48 AM   #38
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I ran a GT-R on the track today. It is nothing short of incredible the bang for the buck that this vehicle offers. It certainly is the easiest to drive close to the limit with the computer/electronic help. That being said, unless you're a pro driver, the GT-R will allow you to do things that you will be unable to accomplish in other supercars.

Followed it up with a Murcielago, Italia and 430 Scud. The GT-R doesn't have the exclusivity of the Italians, but omg does it perform like them!
Where?
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      01-20-2011, 10:21 AM   #39
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LOL!

See my thread in the "Non-BMW" forum. I'm in Vegas on a business trip.
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      01-21-2011, 12:19 AM   #40
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Quote:
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I bet money was a factor when deciding to get the GT-R
Money is always a factor ... unless you hemorrhage money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
the older Skyline GT-R could be a daily driver - now GT-R owners are forced to treat the GT-R like a garage queen...I see more people daily drive an SL AMG then a GT-R for the mere fear of what it will cost them.
I daily my GTR. So do many others.
It's not any more expensive than any other high performance car.
Big tires are $$$, low volume vehicle dealer visits are $$$.

Keep in mind that there are a lot more SL AMGs than GTRs (they've been sold for a much longer time), and most GTRs are still low miles, so they tend to be babied. Let them get as old as the SL AMGs, and you'll see a lot more on the street.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
Anyway my reasoning is two fold:
1. the GT-R goes against the grain when it comes to inspiration and rewarding the driver with feedback and communication with the road, the GT-R does everything to prevent this relationship by being heavier and how it's computer interacts with the road and driver.
2. GT-R owners pay too much and deal with too much bs, if you're going to get a supercar you might as well go all in.
Like nearly all other high performance cars, it has stability and traction control.
You can turn off stability/traction control and you're on your own - like any other high performance car.

I find the 'electronic magic' aura around this car has more to do with early on advertising (calling it a high tech car) than with any sort of reality.
I mean really, what car today (that isn't basically a stripper) doesn't have stability/traction control...

Paddle shifters are a bit lame. However everyone seems to love this DCT business, oh well.


Quote:
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But for the rest of us car lovers it goes back to the natural philosophy of racing as Colin Champman said "Adding power makes you faster on the straights, while subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
The GTR goes faster through turns than an elise.
Look at autoX figures and see for yourself.
Weight also increases traction (more pressure on the rubber).
The real issue is rubber quality and geometry.
You can make a heavy car handle, but you'll be using stiff spring rates and going through tires like a kid eating candy.
You can track an elise and go home with great looking tires.

That said, I have a lot more fun driving an elise...

-scheherazade
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      02-04-2011, 12:52 PM   #41
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Screw with everyone with neg.. Comments get one and i guarantee u u wont look back... Get the damn GTR and call it a day.... By next year i will get the GTR...
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      02-08-2011, 08:03 PM   #42
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maintenance is not a bit deal, unless you bring your car to dealers. I have my r35 for 2 years, and being upgraded to 700hp+ for 7 months, no problem. Just maintain like any other cars I have.
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      02-08-2011, 08:37 PM   #43
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Paddle shifters are a bit lame. However everyone seems to love this DCT business, oh well.
Does the inability to shift via the gear knob an issue at all. I think always having to use the right paddle to upshift, especially for daily driving might bug me.
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      02-08-2011, 10:13 PM   #44
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What I dont get is why nissan didnt offer a manual option? I know dct's shift faster than people but i prefer to be more involved with the driving experience. If they had a 6-spd manual i most likely would have got one over my M3 for it's shear abilities with AWD and a stick. But I jumped back to M3 from a S5 becuase Audi didn't offer stick for RS-5 too.

Oh well.
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