M3 vs. 1M : Let's talk performance

[slimflem]

Originally Posted by erhanh

Oh and it kinda sucks that you can't even say M1...

But at least it will have low-end torque

[stylinexpat]

Originally Posted by James T. Kirk

(Reading comprehension is a challenge, eh?)

Back to the question regarding M3 vs. 1M...
my pros and cons are as follows:

M3 pros: V8, sound, roominess, DCT, ZCP, EDC, hood hump and vents
M3 cons: fuel efficiency, price

1M pros: lightweight, torque, fender design, price, low-tech nature
1M cons: functionally only a two-seater, turbo inline-6

Overall, I must also agree on a biased leaning toward the M3 as an all-around more evolved driving machine.

For many here Engrish is a 2nd language Add that to reading comprehension and you get major issues

If I lived and spent most of my time in the city I would say to buy the 1M and if I did most of my driving on highways and freeways then I'd get the M3

[brava09]

M3 is more classy, while 1M looks like boy racer....so I don't care if 1M brings better performance

[MrHarris]

Originally Posted by brava09

M3 is more classy, while 1M looks like boy racer....so I don't care if 1M brings better performance

says the owner of an m3

[Bubbles]

I think everyone is jumping the gun with the 1M track performance. Having sufferred through heat issues on the track with N54 engine (even after oil cooler upgrade, intercooler upgrade, straight distilled water, fog lamp removal), wait and see if the M division addressed this issue. The V8 handled 95F+ ambient temps just fine over a very long track day, it is a work of art.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by James T. Kirk

(Reading comprehension is a challenge, eh?)

Speaking of following directions - your original post was in the wrong forum.

I knew what you were asking, I was just having a little fun instead of posting a snarky comment (like you did above) about your mistake .

Plus I found the topic title ironic because we have no idea what the performance of the 1M really is yet.

[James T. Kirk]

Sorry, if I touched a nerve. Just trying to keep things on track here... which actually IS ironic as the conversation has gravitated from performance to the 1M's position in the market, particularly amongst BMW enthusiasts with M-leanings.

Someone commented earlier that they perceived the 1M as a "boy-racer." That comment is not insignificant.

Perception is reality especially with this new 1M even without a test-drive. Side-by-side speed numbers also don't hold a ton of water as both cars infinitely tune-able. But we do know, the big differences, engine architecture, styling, weight.

When the 1-series first came out, it first struck me as a very cute chick coupe/cabrio. The kinda car wealthy guys would buy for their daughters for college. BMW has been able to successfully position it to the contrary as a lightweight performance car. The new super-ballsy 1M seals the deal on making that clear to the market. I'm certainly sold.

However, that then begs the question, who will want this car in his/her garage? Some folks have commented that it seems like a fun 2nd car. Some are ready to turn in their M3 one-for-one. Others would rather get into the next M5.

So, yes, I do agree that we don't have all the details, but we do know enough to know if we're attracted to it.

[DCC]

Originally Posted by James T. Kirk

Okay, so we all have seen the new 1M video a few days before BMW's official reveal. We have some idea of what's under the hood, but this new 1M could be a game changer presenting itself as a less expensive, lighter and potential faster rival to the M3.

In some respects, it's apples-to-oranges given the differences in engine architecture, but it may split the market in high-performance lightweight BMW racers.

All the money in the world, which of these two cars (the M3 or the 1M) would you choose and why?
(Value-for-dollar responses please stay home.)

Which is why its 'de-tuned' so to not cannabalize M3 sales

[frenchM3dreamer]

seeing how many of these threads have already popped up MONTHS before anyone knows anything about real-live performance of the 1M, i cant imagine what it will be next spring when the first magazines get their hands on one of these...
having said that, the 1M might be a good alternative for a 25 y-o guy who cant afford an M3 but doesnt want a STI / EVO like the rest of his classmates, or as a track toy for those who can afford it, providing it lives up to everyone's expectations for being the new E30 M3...
or for a guy like me who doesnt fit anywhere in the above but just looking for a fun car

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by James T. Kirk

Sorry, if I touched a nerve.

Nope - all in good fun. The smilies are the clue there.

My opinion on the situation is that the 1M is irrelevant right now since it does not have a naturally aspirated high revving motor and also does not offer M-DCT. I suspect that 50% of the folks on the forum that also have DCT will agree. And probably at least half on the remaining ones will agree because of the engine point.

Once the next generation cars come, things will be more level on both of those fronts - F2x 1M gains DCT, F3x M3 loses NA motor. Then the comparison will be much more relevant. But even then, it won't be much different than comparing an E90 M3 to an E60 M5 for example. That is to say, then really do cover two totally seperate markets.

[stylinexpat]

Originally Posted by DCC

Which is why its 'de-tuned' so to not cannabalize M3 sales

With another small tune it should be prefect.

[James T. Kirk]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Nope - all in good fun. The smilies are the clue there.

My opinion on the situation is that the 1M is irrelevant right now since it does not have a naturally aspirated high revving motor and also does not offer M-DCT. I suspect that 50% of the folks on the forum that also have DCT will agree. And probably at least half on the remaining ones will agree because of the engine point.

Excellent points. The differentiation should be significant enough to avert cannibalization.

[Levi]

The M1 is a better base than the M3, but without the right powerunit (35is), M3 is the better package.

[Jeff_DML]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

I think everyone is jumping the gun with the 1M track performance. Having sufferred through heat issues on the track with N54 engine (even after oil cooler upgrade, intercooler upgrade, straight distilled water, fog lamp removal), wait and see if the M division addressed this issue. The V8 handled 95F+ ambient temps just fine over a very long track day, it is a work of art.

based on the PR release is sounds like they didnt do squat, straight port of the iS engine from the z4/335. Guess we should be asking the owner of those cars how well they have held up on the track since they upgraded the cooling system a bit for those cars.

[graider]

Originally Posted by stingray23

Fender design? LOL! thats a pro?

he meant wider fenders on the 1m.

personally I think the 1m body work is epic. you cannot mistake the 1m for a regular 1 series.

I wish the m3 came out as the 1m.

[robackja]

Originally Posted by graider

personally I think the 1m body work is epic.

EPIC, really? Wide fenders != EPIC.

http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=epic

[DOUT]

M3 > 1M

'nuff said

[zamm3k]

Originally Posted by robackja

EPIC, really? Wide fenders != EPIC.

http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=epic

that link is fucking hilarious!

[robackja]

Originally Posted by zamm3k

that link is fucking hilarious!

If u think that was funny. Check out his analysis of the titanic sinking.. LOL. I think I laughed for a week.

[pride355]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

I think everyone is jumping the gun with the 1M track performance. Having sufferred through heat issues on the track with N54 engine (even after oil cooler upgrade, intercooler upgrade, straight distilled water, fog lamp removal), wait and see if the M division addressed this issue. The V8 handled 95F+ ambient temps just fine over a very long track day, it is a work of art.

Very good and clever point

[ChrisK]

There are a few things that bother me about the 1M.

My last few BMW's: many before.....'08 135i, '11 M3

1) I got rid of my 135i because I just couldn't get used to the headlights. They are tooo big, tooo tall, tooo something. They just never grew on me.
Call it trivial. Eyebrows didn't help on the 1M either. You have to love looking at your car as much as driving it.

2) I can't believe they left out the M seats. Weight, cost, whatever reason. The M seats are far better then the sport seats (which are identical in the 135i)

3) The engine. The N54 is a great motor, and turbo engines are the future (according to BMW). For the sake of the brand finally fix the HPFP problem. Note: Anyone complaining about the lack of torque on the S65 must have never owned a M car before. Rev it baby!!

4) DCT - BMW didn't leave out DCT because of the "It will outperform the M3" nonsense, but because of the price point and weight. Add $2900 to the price and another 200lbs - the 1M would really be porky.

Just my 2 cents - don't flame me.

I still think the 1M will be a hit, and the next gen may be the next best thing.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by robackja

EPIC, really? Wide fenders != EPIC.

http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=epic

Dude, that page is epic.