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      04-05-2007, 10:04 PM   #1
T Bone
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Red face EU vs. Curb Weight - M3

Sorry for kicking off another thread but there is alot of confusion about the different weight standards (including much confusion by myself). So I am biting the bullet and searching......

Definitions:
  • Curb Weight = Weight of Car with standard accessories, full fluids, no driver
  • EU Weight = Weight of Car with 90% fuel, 68 kg driver, 7 kg cargo
  • Unladen Weight = Appears to be Curb Weight less 8 kg (can't find definition)
  • 1 US Gallon = 3.8 liters
  • Weight of 1 US Gallon of Gasoline = 6.35 pounds (2.87 kg)
  • Weight of 1 liter of Gasoline = 1.67 pounds (0.76 kg)
Equations for Weight Conversion:
  • Curb Weight (metric) = EU1 Weight - 68kg for driver - 7 kg for cargo + (0.1 X Fuel Capacity X 0.76)
  • EU Weight (metric) = Curb Weight + 68 kg for driver + 7 kg for cargo - (0.1 X Fuel Capacity X 0.76)
  • 1 KG = 2.2 pounds
Using some Cars as examples:

BMW M6
  • EU Weight = 1785 kg
  • Curb Weight = 1785 kg - 68 kg - 7 kg + (0.1 X 70 liters X 0.76) = 1715 kg = 3773 pounds
BMW M3
  • EU Weight = 1655 kg
  • Curb Weight = 1655 kg - 68 kg - 7 kg + (0.1 X 63 liters X 0.76) = 1585 kg = 3487 pounds
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      04-05-2007, 10:09 PM   #2
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Well done.
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      04-06-2007, 02:40 AM   #3
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You forgot one.

DIN weight (sometimes referred to as unladen weight), which is equivalent to your defn. of Curb Weight, less fuel. That's the weight that Porsche tend to quote for all their cars (in RoW) and the one that gets repeatedly quoted in the press.

Being involved with the press myself it drives me up the wall when I see Porsche's DIN weight being compared with BMW's EU1 weight and then the lazy journo concluding that the BMW is 'so' much heavier. For example, so many forum pages have been wasted discussing why the Z4M weighs 150kg+ more than a Boxster, when in actual fact the difference was more like 40kg..


So, for the DIN weight of the M3 (i.e. comparable with Porsche, Audi quoted weights etc)

DIN Weight = 1655 kg - 68 kg - 7 kg - (0.9 X 63 liters X 0.76) = 1536 kg = 3386 pounds
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      04-06-2007, 03:27 AM   #4
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So the E92 M3 weighs barely 40 lbs more than the E46 M3 and has another 81 HP, 26 lb ft of torque, lower center of gravity (CF roof) and (soon) a 7-speed DSG transmission. That is a true accomplishment, and one I can't wait to DRIVE!
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      04-06-2007, 03:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e36jakeo View Post
So the E92 M3 weighs barely 40 lbs more than the E46 M3 and has another 81 HP, 26 lb ft of torque, lower center of gravity (CF roof) and (soon) a 7-speed DSG transmission. That is a true accomplishment, and one I can't wait to DRIVE!
Not according to my numbers. Comparing BMW quoted weights the E92 M3 weighs 85kg more than the E46 M3, which is 187lbs..
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      04-06-2007, 03:41 AM   #6
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Excellent

Tbone, Steve, excellent information. This means I should probably revise my power to weight thread again. DIN weight/hp = 8.06!!!
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      04-06-2007, 05:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
You forgot one.

DIN weight (sometimes referred to as unladen weight), which is equivalent to your defn. of Curb Weight, less fuel. That's the weight that Porsche tend to quote for all their cars (in RoW) and the one that gets repeatedly quoted in the press.

Being involved with the press myself it drives me up the wall when I see Porsche's DIN weight being compared with BMW's EU1 weight and then the lazy journo concluding that the BMW is 'so' much heavier. For example, so many forum pages have been wasted discussing why the Z4M weighs 150kg+ more than a Boxster, when in actual fact the difference was more like 40kg..


So, for the DIN weight of the M3 (i.e. comparable with Porsche, Audi quoted weights etc)

DIN Weight = 1655 kg - 68 kg - 7 kg - (0.9 X 63 liters X 0.76) = 1536 kg = 3386 pounds
Very useful info.
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      04-06-2007, 08:35 AM   #8
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Everything's bigger in ...

68Kg driver in Europe.

I find this quite interesting as several American drivers of this car may well be in excess of 100Kg. I myself weigh 76-77Kg at 6ft tall and am often asked why I am so thin. I think it's quite interesting how large Americans have gotten.
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      04-06-2007, 08:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerisolphaln View Post
I myself weigh 76-77Kg at 6ft tall and am often asked why I am so thin. I think it's quite interesting how large Americans have gotten.
That's because you live in IOWA!

Just joking man!
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      04-06-2007, 02:12 PM   #10
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hopefully Ill make up for the E46 M3 weight cuz i was 200lbs. when I had the E46

now i am 170 lbs.
Lol
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      04-08-2007, 03:24 AM   #11
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Guys,

From the recently-posted UK press kit documentation, it says:

"And just how consistently this development target has been translated into reality in terms of intelligent lightweight engineering is borne out by the car's power-to-weight ratio of only 3.8 kg (8.4 lb) per horsepower."

This means the E92 M3 will either weigh:

8.4 x 414 = 3,477 lbs

or

8.4 x 420 = 3,528 lbs

Yes?
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      04-08-2007, 06:04 AM   #12
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The reality is that the weight is still being determined depending on final spec in each country, so you will see some discrepancies between the initial press release and what actually gets delivered to the customer.

According to the press release, and using the 3.8kg/hp figure then the M3 weighs 1596 kg, the spec sheet says 1655 kg and if we just look at the DIN figure then that figure is 1536 kg. (i.e. 3511 lbs, 3641 lbs and 3379 lbs)

It depends on whether these first two figures were both quoted to EU1 standard (I doubt it).

Take your pick..

I hope to find out when EVO stick it on some weighing scales side by side with RS4, CSL etc..
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      04-08-2007, 08:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
The reality is that the weight is still being determined depending on final spec in each country, so you will see some discrepancies between the initial press release and what actually gets delivered to the customer.

According to the press release, and using the 3.8kg/hp figure then the M3 weighs 1596 kg, the spec sheet says 1655 kg and if we just look at the DIN figure then that figure is 1536 kg. (i.e. 3511 lbs, 3641 lbs and 3379 lbs)

It depends on whether these first two figures were both quoted to EU1 standard (I doubt it).

Take your pick..

I hope to find out when EVO stick it on some weighing scales side by side with RS4, CSL etc..
Just to clarify...... The weight for the car will be determined by the base options for each country. As this is the "Standard Equipment"
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      04-08-2007, 09:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Just to clarify...... The weight for the car will be determined by the base options for each country. As this is the "Standard Equipment"
The definition of 'standard' equipment is only standard within the country of context. If you look through these press releases over the years you will find that the initial marketing communication is not necessarily wholy accurate in practice, nor congruent with later product communications.

Use the M3 CSL as an example. The first press release talked about a weight of 1385, but later press releases (and the eventual brochure) used the 1460kg figure. Both apparently to the same EU1 standard. In fact the typical 'actual' weight of the car (to EU1 stnd) would have been around 1495kg (including a/c and xenon lights), which is around 1376kg DIN. The original figure quoted in the press release would have been amazing, but was completely unrealistic.

Either a case of the marketing boys getting ahead of themselves or human error.
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      04-14-2007, 09:11 PM   #15
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Another data point...

E92 335 EU Weight - 1600kg
E92 M3 EU Weight - 1655kg

E92 335 US Curb Weight - 3571lb
E92 M3 US Curb Weight (est) - 3571lb + 55kg = 3692lb

Porsche here I come.

-Adam
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      04-15-2007, 03:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoltz View Post
Another data point...

E92 335 EU Weight - 1600kg
E92 M3 EU Weight - 1655kg

E92 335 US Curb Weight - 3571lb
E92 M3 US Curb Weight (est) - 3571lb + 55kg = 3692lb

Porsche here I come.

-Adam
See ya.
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      04-15-2007, 04:17 PM   #17
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For those who are interested in analysing further information about this whole unladen/kerb weight subject. I looked back at some data from last year when during EVO's Fast Club article in May '06 the RS4 was weighed and so was the M6.

Now having used these very same scales in a recent group test for the magazine, I know how careful they are about getting accurate figures and also that the scales are calibrated correctly.

Both cars were specced with the options you would normall expect (they were weighed with full fuel tanks, so I have subtracted the weight of these from the actual figure);

RS4 - manuf quoted unladen weight - 1650 kg; Actual - 1694 kg (1740 kg with fuel)

M6 - manuf quoted unladen weight - 1657 kg; Actual - 1709 kg (1762 kg with fuel)

So as you can see the RS4 was only 15kg lighter than the M6. BMW's figures suggest the E92 M3 will be 135 kg lighter than the M6, so if that is true then the E92 M3 should be 120kg (or 264 lbs) lighter than the RS4.

The 997 C2S came in at 1460 kg (with fuel).
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      04-15-2007, 04:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
See ya.
If the weight comes in that high you'll have to post a lot of those I think.

-Adam
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      04-15-2007, 04:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
For those who are interested in analysing further information about this whole unladen/kerb weight subject. I looked back at some data from last year when during EVO's Fast Club article in May '06 the RS4 was weighed and so was the M6.

Now having used these very same scales in a recent group test for the magazine, I know how careful they are about getting accurate figures and also that the scales are calibrated correctly.

Both cars were specced with the options you would normall expect (they were weighed with full fuel tanks, so I have subtracted the weight of these from the actual figure);

RS4 - manuf quoted unladen weight - 1650 kg; Actual - 1694 kg (1740 kg with fuel)

M6 - manuf quoted unladen weight - 1657 kg; Actual - 1709 kg (1762 kg with fuel)

So as you can see the RS4 was only 15kg lighter than the M6. BMW's figures suggest the E92 M3 will be 135 kg lighter than the M6, so if that is true then the E92 M3 should be 120kg (or 264 lbs) lighter than the RS4.

The 997 C2S came in at 1460 kg (with fuel).
I think that this wont really be settled until one of the German mags gets one and puts it on the scales. Fortunately, for those of us in the US, we should have access to that information and some real reviews before having to plunk down the ~$60k.

-Adam
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      04-15-2007, 04:43 PM   #20
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I agree with Adam. If the weight comes in close to 3600 lbs and we're only getting 414 hp in the states, I'll be buying another Porsche.
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      04-15-2007, 04:49 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
For those who are interested in analysing further information about this whole unladen/kerb weight subject. I looked back at some data from last year when during EVO's Fast Club article in May '06 the RS4 was weighed and so was the M6.

Now having used these very same scales in a recent group test for the magazine, I know how careful they are about getting accurate figures and also that the scales are calibrated correctly.

Both cars were specced with the options you would normall expect (they were weighed with full fuel tanks, so I have subtracted the weight of these from the actual figure);

RS4 - manuf quoted unladen weight - 1650 kg; Actual - 1694 kg (1740 kg with fuel)

M6 - manuf quoted unladen weight - 1657 kg; Actual - 1709 kg (1762 kg with fuel)

So as you can see the RS4 was only 15kg lighter than the M6. BMW's figures suggest the E92 M3 will be 135 kg lighter than the M6, so if that is true then the E92 M3 should be 120kg (or 264 lbs) lighter than the RS4.

The 997 C2S came in at 1460 kg (with fuel).


Good stuff Steved....

The real issue will be what standard equipment BMWUSA will put into the standard car...... If it is a stripper, and people stuff with options, we need to look at the weight of the car that people actually want.
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      04-15-2007, 04:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
I agree with Adam. If the weight comes in close to 3600 lbs and we're only getting 414 hp in the states, I'll be buying another Porsche.
You already know the answer to that question (for comparative purposes).

The E92 M3's Curb weight (total weight of the vehicle with standard equipment, all necessary operating consumables (such as motor oil and coolant), a full tank of fuel and not loaded with either passengers or cargo) = 3485 lbs.

The variance in spec depending on country/region is unlikely to vary no more than 20-30kg (40-60 lbs) from this figure.

Engine power has already been quoted at 420 PS (eq. 414 hp).

When we actually get to weigh a car and test it on a rolling road, these figures may differ, but in terms of comparing it with other cars that should provide you with a sufficient guide.

For example, comparing the power/weight ratio of E92 M3 against the 997 C2S, tells you the following (with the M3 weighing just over 110kg more than the C2S - and 50kg less than the 997 TT by the way);

E92 M3 - 261 hp/tonne
997 C2S - 237 hp/tonne
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