BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Wash, Wax, Detail, Cosmetic Maintenance & Repairs
 
BPM Sport
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-05-2010, 03:09 PM   #23
signes
Brigadier General
United_States
94

 
signes's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Spinnin at 8k


Posts: 4,213
iTrader: (3)

Somebody ought to add that to the all-time questions/comments thread in the main forum.
__________________
08 E90 | Jet Black / Black | 6MT
Mods: RAC RG63 w/ Pirelli Corsa 255F/285R | Akrapovic Evo Exhaust | OEM Blacklines
Winter Setup: OEM 18s w/ Nokian Hakkapeliita R 245/40-18
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2010, 03:41 PM   #24
Dave2
First Lieutenant
21

 
Dave2's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 M3 Convertible
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA


Posts: 383
iTrader: (0)

Guys,
You can laugh and make fun all you want, I can take it. I know what works for me and for years all I have ever used on a car is polish. I do not use wax.

Below is an instruction form the FAQs on the Zaino web site:

Q: I'd like a show car finish. What products do I need?

A: For the ultimate in show car appearance, it is vital to get the cleanest and smoothest finish possible. We recommend washing the car with original blue Liquid Dawn only for this initial cleaning (elsewhere on the web site it is stated that this will be the only time Dawn will be used). Once you have your vehicle completely washed, follow up with the Z-18 Claybar, to remove any surface contamination. Follow up the Z-18 Claybar with a thorough wash using our Z-7 Show Car Wash.

For any Zaino polish application, it's critical to include either ZFX OR Z-1 Polish Lok. For that show car finish, we prefer to use ZFX with Z-2 Show Car Polish. ZFX replaces Z-1 and is superior to Z-1. Z-2 Show Car Polish should be applied with our 314 Polish Aplicator pad. The key to our ultimate shine, is multiple thin layers of Z-2, with Z-6 between application. The results with just two coats of Z-2 are amazing.

If your finish contains fine scratches or swirl marks, Z-5 Show Car Polish will safely fill and level minor imperfections. As you layer Z-5, these imperfections will disappear!
:



Furthermore, if you go to Zaino's web site (http://www.zainobros.com/) you will see they do not even offer a a wax. I don't know anyone who would not agree that Zaino makes some of the best car care products available. If Zaino does not offer a wax and make no mention of using wax on a car I would skip the wax.
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2010, 06:42 PM   #25
ES_TRADER
Colonel
121

 
Drives: 328i, 335i, M3, 535i, X5, 36M
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OC


Posts: 2,625
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Ford Raptor  [0.00]
2012 328i E92  [5.00]
2013 X5  [0.00]
2013 335i F30  [4.00]
1990 Toyota Previa  [0.00]
1997 E36 M3  [5.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
2011 535i  [0.00]
IF i absolutely DONT want to use Dawn to wash the car, what options do i have out there that would make zaino stick to the paint?
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2010, 09:08 PM   #26
Dave2
First Lieutenant
21

 
Dave2's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 M3 Convertible
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA


Posts: 383
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by richpuer View Post
IF i absolutely DONT want to use Dawn to wash the car, what options do i have out there that would make zaino stick to the paint?
Go to Zaino's web site. There is a link where you can contact them directly to ask questions.
I would recommend starting here; frequently asked questions- http://www.zainostore.com/Merchant2/...Q&Store_Code=Z


This from Sal Zaino:

Waxes are loaded with oils to
promote a gloss or shine and to temporarily camouflage scratches and
swirls. So in actuality all you are doing is putting oil on your Zaino
paint finish.

Last edited by Dave2; 11-07-2010 at 06:45 AM.
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2010, 09:28 PM   #27
Suprane
Second Lieutenant
United_States
3

 
Suprane's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 M3 E90
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Big D


Posts: 280
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by richpuer View Post
IF i absolutely DONT want to use Dawn to wash the car, what options do i have out there that would make zaino stick to the paint?
I don't use Dawn either. Don't like what it does to the softer rubber trim. I use a concentrated dose of car shampoo. usually CGCW&G:
http://www.chemicalguys.com/Premium_...cws_301_16.htm
If that doesnt work (i.e. you have still water beading after wash suggesting leftover LSP), just use a 1:1 mix of Isopropyl alcohol and water in a spray bottle and wipe with it. Works for me every time. You rarely have to do it anyway unless you're doing a full detail or want to go with a straight carnauba wax. Zaino can be layered and works very well as far as durability goes. Lately, I've been using Blackfire Wet Diamond Sealant.(BFWD). I recommend it highly (easier to use than Zaino, and more reflective (IMO)).
Here's a thread from today regarding stripping LSP from a detailers forum:
http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-det...vs-cg-cwd.html
__________________
09 E90 M3 DCT SSII Carbon Blk, Eisenmann Sport, RAC 19"RG63 on 255/275 UltracS, Dark Sidemkrs/Reflectrs/Grills, BMC Filter, LUX H8 V3 LEDs, V1 H/W, Ultimate Pedals & 30% Tint

Last edited by Suprane; 11-06-2010 at 11:20 PM. Reason: Added thread
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2010, 01:53 AM   #28
quality_sound
8 tracks of madness
United_States
44

 
Drives: Slowly
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: At home


Posts: 2,731
iTrader: (1)

There are products made specifically to remove waxes and synthetic sealants before polishing. Dawn makes the process a LOT faster. Also, if you're doing a full detail your'e treating the rubber as well, correct? That will restore anything the Dawn may have removed. I am by no means saying use Dawn for every wash, but a couple of times a year before a detail is fine.

Also, claying and polishing will remove waxes and sealants as well so you don't technically have to do a "wax/sealant stripping" phase.
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2010, 12:18 PM   #29
Hawk Lax
Second Lieutenant
2

 
Hawk Lax's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3 AW Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: L.I., N.Y.


Posts: 231
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave IV View Post
Guys,
You can laugh and make fun all you want, I can take it. I know what works for me and for years all I have ever used on a car is polish. I do not use wax.

Below is an instruction form the FAQs on the Zaino web site:

Q: I'd like a show car finish. What products do I need?

A: For the ultimate in show car appearance, it is vital to get the cleanest and smoothest finish possible. We recommend washing the car with original blue Liquid Dawn only for this initial cleaning (elsewhere on the web site it is stated that this will be the only time Dawn will be used). Once you have your vehicle completely washed, follow up with the Z-18 Claybar, to remove any surface contamination. Follow up the Z-18 Claybar with a thorough wash using our Z-7 Show Car Wash.

For any Zaino polish application, it's critical to include either ZFX OR Z-1 Polish Lok. For that show car finish, we prefer to use ZFX with Z-2 Show Car Polish. ZFX replaces Z-1 and is superior to Z-1. Z-2 Show Car Polish should be applied with our 314 Polish Aplicator pad. The key to our ultimate shine, is multiple thin layers of Z-2, with Z-6 between application. The results with just two coats of Z-2 are amazing.

If your finish contains fine scratches or swirl marks, Z-5 Show Car Polish will safely fill and level minor imperfections. As you layer Z-5, these imperfections will disappear!
:



Furthermore, if you go to Zaino's web site (http://www.zainobros.com/) you will see they do not even offer a a wax. I don't know anyone who would not agree that Zaino makes some of the best car care products available. If Zaino does not offer a wax and make no mention of using wax on a car I would skip the wax.
The problem with using Zaino as a reference is they unfortunately use the word polish and sealant interchangeably to describe their products. A polish should do just that, add luster to the paint by chemically cleaning the paint or using fine abrasives to add luster. Zaino markets its "Z-2 PRO Show Car Polish" as a polish but its really a sealant. The instruction for Z-2
state
"APPLICATION INSTRUCTIONS

A little goes a long way. We've engineered Z-2 PRO™ to be extremely efficient. While applying Z-2 PRO™, do your best to apply very thin, even layers. As you become more familiar with the product, a single eight-ounce bottle will do a Corvette 20 times. Remember - when in doubt, use less.
If your car's surface isn't in optimal condition, take the necessary steps to correct any imperfections before applying Z-2 PRO. For best results, always precede an application of Z-2 PRO™ with a Z-7 Show Car Wash. This will ensure the surface is free of any contaminants or incompatible oils/deposits. Z-2 PRO™ contains no cleaners, and no abrasives, therefore the surface must be in good condition before you apply Z-2 PRO™. "

As can be seen from the bold type Z-2 is really a sealant more than a polish, it may add to the gloss but it is not polishing the paint. The "Z-5™ PRO Show Car Polish" is what's typically referred to as an all in one product in that it both polishes the paint (chemically) and has some protection. But even Zaino's site recommends following Z-5 with Z-2 for added protection and gloss. I can understand the confusion this creates but blanket statements that wax is as bad as dish soap, or you only need polish to protect your car are just incorrect.

Last edited by Hawk Lax; 11-08-2010 at 12:29 PM.
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2010, 12:21 PM   #30
Envious Eric
Banned
United_States
37

 
Drives: nissan xterra, 335 soon
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: orange county, ca


Posts: 1,168
iTrader: (1)

HAWK, very good info! That is why I think Zaino is more hype than quality! But if people like it, no biggie to me, I have used it in the past and know there are better products out there!
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2010, 12:57 PM   #31
Hawk Lax
Second Lieutenant
2

 
Hawk Lax's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3 AW Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: L.I., N.Y.


Posts: 231
iTrader: (0)

Thanks Eric! Not to hijack this thread but have you had a chance to try Blackfire Wet Diamond? Would like to hear your thoughts on it.
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 01:43 AM   #32
cmk227
Major
United_States
26

 
cmk227's Avatar
 
Drives: ED on 2014 M6GC this summer
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Irving, TX


Posts: 1,323
iTrader: (2)



IF YOU WANT TO USE SOAP USE IT, IF YOU DON'T DONT USE IT.
__________________

08 BMW X5 3.0si Space Grey
14 Lexus GX460
Previous M's: 11 BMW M3 JZB ZCP 6MT, 02 BMW M3 Conv 6MT & 02 BMW M3 Coupe 6MT
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 07:41 AM   #33
ChrisK
Brigadier General
United_States
165

 
ChrisK's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: IL


Posts: 4,864
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Envious Eric View Post
HAWK, very good info! That is why I think Zaino is more hype than quality! But if people like it, no biggie to me, I have used it in the past and know there are better products out there!
What are you using that is better.. and doesn't cost $100/bottle
__________________

2011 E92 M3: AW/BLK • DCT
Europäische Lieferung am 6. August 2010
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 09:35 AM   #34
quality_sound
8 tracks of madness
United_States
44

 
Drives: Slowly
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: At home


Posts: 2,731
iTrader: (1)

Meguair's #21 kicks the piss out of Zaino and so does Klasse HGSG.

Also, 99.9% of the difference is how you use what you have, not what you use. Some peopel swear by Mother's, some will tell you Meg's is nothing but snake oil and then there are those will ONLY use boutique products. A lot of it is preference. HGSG, while a MONSTER pain in the ass to deal with, gives a high-gloss, slick, durable finish with great shine. #21 isn't nearly as slick but has amazing depth that I can't get with anything else.
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 09:46 AM   #35
Hawk Lax
Second Lieutenant
2

 
Hawk Lax's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3 AW Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: L.I., N.Y.


Posts: 231
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
What are you using that is better.. and doesn't cost $100/bottle
Menzerna's sealant and blackfire wet diamond both last as long, look better and are under $35 a bottle. Zaino imho has a very distinct look that I don't like. It appears to be a very sterile shine without depth or wetness.

Last edited by Hawk Lax; 11-10-2010 at 10:09 AM.
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 09:50 AM   #36
quality_sound
8 tracks of madness
United_States
44

 
Drives: Slowly
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: At home


Posts: 2,731
iTrader: (1)

Which one? The only Menzerna I've used is IP and FP II and they work well but I haven't tried any of their sealants yet.
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 10:09 AM   #37
Hawk Lax
Second Lieutenant
2

 
Hawk Lax's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3 AW Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: L.I., N.Y.


Posts: 231
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
Which one? The only Menzerna I've used is IP and FP II and they work well but I haven't tried any of their sealants yet.
Power Lock. Very similar to Blackfire but I still prefer Blackfire.
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 10:51 AM   #38
ChrisK
Brigadier General
United_States
165

 
ChrisK's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: IL


Posts: 4,864
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
Meguair's #21 kicks the piss out of Zaino and so does Klasse HGSG.

Also, 99.9% of the difference is how you use what you have, not what you use. Some peopel swear by Mother's, some will tell you Meg's is nothing but snake oil and then there are those will ONLY use boutique products. A lot of it is preference. HGSG, while a MONSTER pain in the ass to deal with, gives a high-gloss, slick, durable finish with great shine. #21 isn't nearly as slick but has amazing depth that I can't get with anything else.
I've never used M#21, how easy is it to remove?
__________________

2011 E92 M3: AW/BLK • DCT
Europäische Lieferung am 6. August 2010
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 01:09 PM   #39
quality_sound
8 tracks of madness
United_States
44

 
Drives: Slowly
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: At home


Posts: 2,731
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
I've never used M#21, how easy is it to remove?
#21 is, by far, the easiest product to use I've ever tried. And it's not even close. It even comes off easily if you accidentally apply it too thick. It even wipes off of rubber trim pretty easily. Absolutely fantastic product. If you try it, do at least 3 layers but you need to wait 24 hours for curing between layers.

#20 is the same product but with a mild cleaning ability so you can't layer it but if you're only doing a single layer and you don't need any real polishing then #20 is a good alternative. I'vw only ever found it at body shop supply stores or online but it's usually about $15-$16 per bottle. Same for #21.
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 02:14 PM   #40
Dengel
Non-Guido Jersey Resident
United_States
27

 
Dengel's Avatar
 
Drives: Slow Jeep Rubicon
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Scottsdale, AZ


Posts: 678
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by richpuer View Post
IF i absolutely DONT want to use Dawn to wash the car, what options do i have out there that would make zaino stick to the paint?
The best option is to not use zaino in this situation.
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 02:29 PM   #41
ES_TRADER
Colonel
121

 
Drives: 328i, 335i, M3, 535i, X5, 36M
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OC


Posts: 2,625
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Ford Raptor  [0.00]
2012 328i E92  [5.00]
2013 X5  [0.00]
2013 335i F30  [4.00]
1990 Toyota Previa  [0.00]
1997 E36 M3  [5.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
2011 535i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengel View Post
The best option is to not use zaino in this situation.
Y?
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 03:06 PM   #42
quality_sound
8 tracks of madness
United_States
44

 
Drives: Slowly
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: At home


Posts: 2,731
iTrader: (1)

Because it's overrated and overpriced.
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 03:43 PM   #43
ES_TRADER
Colonel
121

 
Drives: 328i, 335i, M3, 535i, X5, 36M
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OC


Posts: 2,625
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Ford Raptor  [0.00]
2012 328i E92  [5.00]
2013 X5  [0.00]
2013 335i F30  [4.00]
1990 Toyota Previa  [0.00]
1997 E36 M3  [5.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
2011 535i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
Because it's overrated and overpriced.
can u suggest something better? and more efficient?
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2010, 04:58 PM   #44
quality_sound
8 tracks of madness
United_States
44

 
Drives: Slowly
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: At home


Posts: 2,731
iTrader: (1)

Besides the stuff already listed in the thread?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:57 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST