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      11-02-2010, 09:04 AM   #45
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Now THIS is something all you fools should familiarize yourselves with!!!!!

I havent heard that name in a few years. Thanks SHIG
Oh indeed....she was once concidered the hottest ass on the internet!
After all these years....she's still my fave!
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      11-02-2010, 09:59 AM   #46
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BUT HERE IS THE THING MOST OF US BUY THIS CARS TO RACE THEM AT A LIGHT
Here is the thing, you're wrong.

Most of those who buy M3's do that because they are tired of unidimensional cars. We want the whole package, with a cherry on top. And when you want the best sports sedan, the M3 is where it's at - as simple as that.

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what are you gonna say to the guy on the c63. if we go to the track I will kICK your ass in one lap!!!
I'll tell him - nice car, thumbs up. But I still prefer mine.
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      11-02-2010, 11:10 AM   #47
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sure its a fun piece...It's Top Gear!....whats your point???!!
Um. That it was a fun piece? You actually required an explanation?

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but the bottom line is they took all three cars around the same track....same conditions and same driver and the M3 beat the C63 by 5 seconds....I may be stupid...but in the world of track racing, a 5 second beat is an asskicking!
Your point is made, at least in this particular venue. I was thinking more like a second a minute as a "typical" difference, but this is about one and two thirds seconds per minute. That sort of difference is definitely flirting with ass-kicking territory.

My "second a minute" opinion is derived from local track-day observations, but clearly your example is in a more definitive venue.
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      11-02-2010, 05:02 PM   #48
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and what is yours?!....you always sound so definitive in your replies.
what other cars do you own other than your Legacy?...spending 4 or 5 hours in an M3 makes you a subject expert???
Still waiting for erm324 to justify his statements...

However, while I'm waiting, I do indeed qualify as a subject expert compared to yourself - unless of course you've spent several hours in various venues in a C63. In addition, I have more than a dozen years and a few thousand miles as a track junkie, the last several of which were spent instructing.

I am leagues away from scaring Alonso, Hamilton, et al (maybe Button? ), but have some idea which direction to circulate in while on track, and also have some idea how to drive rwd, fwd and awd cars in that venue.

Of course, I haven't been on track since late '08, I think, so now it's just talk on my part.

Except...

Some basics you don't forget.

E36 and E46 M3s have graced our garage, and of the two, I much preferred the E36 overall. The E46 was the superior car overall - except it was just less fun to drive due to size and weight. I also disliked the miserable exhaust noises that car made.

The current model is arguably an even better car than the E46, but it's even bigger and heavier, which bothers me to no end.

Understand, it's fine with me if you are madly in love with your M3, but I have history with the marque that gets in the way for me.

In my opinion, the Merc and the bimmer are, overall, very closely matched. The C63 is more fun overall on the street than the M3 for me in spite of its transmission, and although slower on track, I believe it'll be at least as much fun as the bimmer would in that venue.

To answer your other question, my bride drives a Pilot, and currently we are caretakers of my son's C63 while he is away.

Bruce

PS - Every once in awhile, you post something with actual content here, but mostly you seem to be a hater of things that are not BMW, which in my book means it's hard to take you seriously.

Nice ass, though.
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      11-02-2010, 05:25 PM   #49
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justify my statements? a very good friend of mine has a stock c63amg and we run ALL the time for shits sake - and half the time I come out on top by a nose and the other half he does (basically, its whoever hits the gas pedal that .01 second quicker on the third honk).

oh and in regards to handling? we let eachother drive eachothers cars a couple times, and the handling on the C63 is "sloppy" compared to my M (and im quoting that from HIS mouth), and its pretty obvious once you grab the steering wheel in the M (which is way thicker) that your driving something that was built for a complete different purpose, and performs at a completely different level than the AMG. The AMG lets the rear end come out way too much and has significantly more body roll than the M - my M3 is comparable to a scalpel as where his AMG is comparable to a butter-knife.

IMHO there is no other practical everyday car that is comparable to the M3 in regards to handling, and this is coming from an unbiased owner - I also have an ML63AMG so dont even pull the "M3 fanboy" line.
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      11-02-2010, 06:59 PM   #50
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justify my statements? a very good friend of mine has a stock c63amg and we run ALL the time for shits sake - and half the time I come out on top by a nose and the other half he does (basically, its whoever hits the gas pedal that .01 second quicker on the third honk).

oh and in regards to handling? we let eachother drive eachothers cars a couple times, and the handling on the C63 is "sloppy" compared to my M (and im quoting that from HIS mouth), and its pretty obvious once you grab the steering wheel in the M (which is way thicker) that your driving something that was built for a complete different purpose, and performs at a completely different level than the AMG. The AMG lets the rear end come out way too much and has significantly more body roll than the M - my M3 is comparable to a scalpel as where his AMG is comparable to a butter-knife.

IMHO there is no other practical everyday car that is comparable to the M3 in regards to handling, and this is coming from an unbiased owner - I also have an ML63AMG so dont even pull the "M3 fanboy" line.
So far, you haven't justified your statements. You said the C63 is a handling joke compared to the M3. I personally agree that the M3 is a better back road bandit than the C63, but the C63's handling is far from a joke. Just not as good.

A better handling comparison would be butter knife vs hatchet. Forget scalpel. The M3 is way too big and heavy for that designation.

In regard to practical car and handling, try the CTS-V, or even better, the ugly Porsche sedan.
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      11-02-2010, 08:46 PM   #51
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Nice post....does your son know you are driving the sheat out of his car?....:-)
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      11-03-2010, 02:01 AM   #52
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I dont understand why you are arguing LET ME MAKE THIS VERY CLEAR YOUR STOCK M3 DCT IS NOT AND WILL NEVER ever ever ever BE FASTER OR STAY DEAD EVEN WITH A STOCK C63 in straight line at any speed, or gear or little trick that may do with it. JUST face it is OK bro...
Let me enlighten you with the Autopista shootout test. No need to read the entire article (it's in Spanish), just look at the numbers


http://motor.terra.es/pruebas-coches...fm?id=MOT45222
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      11-03-2010, 05:56 AM   #53
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Let me enlighten you with the Autopista shootout test. No need to read the entire article (it's in Spanish), just look at the numbers


http://motor.terra.es/pruebas-coches...fm?id=MOT45222
Muy Bien. I cant decide whether that was a front hand, or back hand bitch-slap!!
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      11-03-2010, 09:24 AM   #54
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Let me enlighten you with the Autopista shootout test. No need to read the entire article (it's in Spanish), just look at the numbers


http://motor.terra.es/pruebas-coches...fm?id=MOT45222
Well played!
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      11-03-2010, 10:08 AM   #55
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....and here is a snip-it from an article from C&D:

"....What really killed the Benz's chances of upsetting the M3, however, was its harsh ride. At low speeds, the suspension seems overly damped; the C63 dutifully tracks every lump in the pavement to the detriment of the jostled occupants. As the speeds rise, on back-road two-lanes, for example, the problem disappears and the Benz feels extremely capable and secure. But at even higher speeds, on unlimited sections of autobahn, the bucking behavior is back. It never caused the C63 to feel unstable but was nevertheless clearly the worst of the three cars.

In the end, we found the C63 to offer the most special experience in this highly desirable trio, but as the days wore on, we became slightly less enamored with the Mercedes' aggressive behavior and looks—the creases, the bulges, the vents, and the gaping front fascia could almost pass as an aftermarket job in this tasteful group. But if you like to be seen, heard, and talked about, the C63 is your Lamborghini of sports sedans."


this is another fun video....even Tiff had difficulty controlling the C63....
For the impatient...fast forward to 6:20.....and if you want one quick visual for the comparison of these two cars....fast forward to 7:55...
enjoy!
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      11-03-2010, 10:16 AM   #56
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Nice post....does your son know you are driving the sheat out of his car?....:-)
Yes. Amongst other things, he wants me to do before and after drag strip testing, and replace all four sneakers before he gets back.

The before and after is in regard to the well-known C63 software upgrades available.

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      11-04-2010, 12:38 AM   #57
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Muy Bien. I cant decide whether that was a front hand, or back hand bitch-slap!!
WOW thats a good one

at least I can read both ??? Can you ?? Nope thats what I though

anyways I am not here to become your enemy but its a fact that the M3 in overall is a better car.... BUT in a straight line the C63 is faster I dont understand why most of you can not admit that its funny but I have close my case...
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      11-10-2010, 03:40 PM   #58
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Have been meaning to reply to this thread for some time so I figure I do now.
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      11-10-2010, 03:54 PM   #59
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If you had worded your post differently and just stated that your experience against an M3 DCT resulted in a different result to my experience with the C63 i would have had no problem at all - different cars, conditions and drivers are all factors but by starting your post in reponse to mine with the word 'shocking' and by saying ' to say it runs equal is simply not true' is however you look at it saying that i am (a). Wrong (b). Making the story up which is not the case. You all but called me a liar.
As a caveat my run against the C63 was on the autobahn upto 170mph (VMAX as stated ) from around 80mph or so. The M3 is in its element at these higher speeds so this could have been a factor as well. To assume that your 35mph - 135mph run is definative and to dismiss everyone elses experience is naive - these cars are very close (in a straight line) and different scenarios, cars and drivers will inevitably give different results.
Unfortunately I have never had any runs with any car starting at 80mph up into 170. Not to mention I can't imagine anyone in the US being able to share that experience unless they where in the desert. Your experience is different then mine and I found that to be awkward and I will post my reasons why in a later post. Was your experience something that randomly happened or was it pre-planned? You need to remember that the C63 is not like the E55 with the old 5A. This car doesn't fall on it's face between the 3rd to 4th gear shift like most of the 55k cars do.

Remember your talking about an engine that really is producing 500+ HP that is being limited by electronic TB opening. So to say this car doesn't react well in the high RPM is not true. Again the M156 revs to 7200RPM still producing power. I'm not saying the dyno graphs from a S65 and M156 are identical but they clearly aren't like the old 55K engines which I feel a majority of people (again not saying you) are assuming.
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      11-10-2010, 04:20 PM   #60
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Driving a C63 from a roll in Mexico:)

Obviously this thread has a bunch of inconsistent posts. Some say a stock C63 will beat a stock M3 DCT in a straight line, while M3 owners with the DCT tranny claim to run neck and neck with a stock C63. I have shared my scenario and I just want to add this important fact. I previously owned and SMG equipped E46 M3, while I fully understand the technical difference between the SMG and DCT trannys the techniques in running these cars are the same. Paddle shift down to where the car is in the power band and hit the throttle.

Unfortunately when driving the C63 equipped with the 7GA it's not the same. If you are simply "rolling" at 50mph even in sport mode the car is in gear 7 (over drive) and upon "mashing the throttle" the car will only go into 3rd gear. This doesn't factor in the time wasted for the tranny to mechanically read the input from the throttle and downshift to 3rd gear. Again, the negatives of an automatic transmission. However, from a 50 mph roll you can place the C63 tranny in sport mode and manually downshift to 2nd gear. That way you will be able to launch the car close to 6K RPM and in the power band which would then shift at red-line into 3rd gear. This makes a significant difference when these cars runs and I believe it will explain the "inconsistency" in the stories from different owners.

Please take a look at this video below. You can hear the C63 is in low gear (let's be honest guys the M156 is much louder the S65) and clearly wins these runs.

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      11-10-2010, 05:34 PM   #61
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Shocking...I ran a DCT M3 when my car was stock 3 times. All 3 runs resulted 2 CL advantage for the C63 from 35 MPH rolls till 135 MPH. If on par means runs closer then the 6MT I agree. But to say it runs equal to it is simply not true.
Thanks for trolling, have a nice day-
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      11-10-2010, 07:03 PM   #62
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Thanks for trolling, have a nice day-
Sorry the big boys don't play in the sand box. Congrats to your first German car maybe some day you will get that ///M
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      11-11-2010, 02:13 AM   #63
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Sorry the big boys don't play in the sand box. Congrats to your first German car maybe some day you will get that ///M
... you must be the king of the jungle gym -

I'll have one soon enough!
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      11-11-2010, 09:22 AM   #64
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Obviously this thread has a bunch of inconsistent posts. Some say a stock C63 will beat a stock M3 DCT in a straight line, while M3 owners with the DCT tranny claim to run neck and neck with a stock C63. I have shared my scenario and I just want to add this important fact. I previously owned and SMG equipped E46 M3, while I fully understand the technical difference between the SMG and DCT trannys the techniques in running these cars are the same. Paddle shift down to where the car is in the power band and hit the throttle.

Unfortunately when driving the C63 equipped with the 7GA it's not the same. If you are simply "rolling" at 50mph even in sport mode the car is in gear 7 (over drive) and upon "mashing the throttle" the car will only go into 3rd gear. This doesn't factor in the time wasted for the tranny to mechanically read the input from the throttle and downshift to 3rd gear. Again, the negatives of an automatic transmission. However, from a 50 mph roll you can place the C63 tranny in sport mode and manually downshift to 2nd gear. That way you will be able to launch the car close to 6K RPM and in the power band which would then shift at red-line into 3rd gear. This makes a significant difference when these cars runs and I believe it will explain the "inconsistency" in the stories from different owners.

Please take a look at this video below. You can hear the C63 is in low gear (let's be honest guys the M156 is much louder the S65) and clearly wins these runs.

I hear what you're saying but would like to clarify some things. 1st, are you blaming any deficiencies the car has in racing on the transmission? If so, that's almost as silly as blaming the engine. The tranny practically IS the car. 2nd, are you telling me that a new C63 has a mechanical detent? If it does, man, Mercedes just sold you a dinosaur. Hopefully you meant an electronic detent and the delay is in the downshift. 3rd, in the video, the Merc jumps twice.

Here is a video (definitely a repost) with the M3 DCT vs C63 where your transmision downshift is irrelevant.

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      11-19-2010, 03:09 PM   #65
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I hear what you're saying but would like to clarify some things. 1st, are you blaming any deficiencies the car has in racing on the transmission? If so, that's almost as silly as blaming the engine. The tranny practically IS the car. 2nd, are you telling me that a new C63 has a mechanical detent? If it does, man, Mercedes just sold you a dinosaur. Hopefully you meant an electronic detent and the delay is in the downshift. 3rd, in the video, the Merc jumps twice.

Here is a video (definitely a repost) with the M3 DCT vs C63 where your transmision downshift is irrelevant.

Kyoshi,

There is a tremendous amount of flaws in your last post. Hopefully we can keep this classy as gentleman.

The 7GA in the C63 is clearly this cars weakest link. Obviously you are informed about each transmission. There is simply no comparison between the M-DCT tranny and the 7GA in the 63 series cars. The M-DCT is clearly superior in all aspects which I’m sure we can agree. However, this isn’t a “silly argument” as you stated above. These transmissions are so far apart in performance it isn’t even worth debating on this forum. Also to blame anything on the engine is ridiculous. Your talking about a 500Bhp close to 500 lb-ft torque engine that revs to 7200RPM. Versus a 414Bhp 295 lb-ft engine revving to 8400RPM. Simply no comparison the M156 is far superior in output when only sacrificing 1200 rpm in redline ( obviously area under the curve in the M156 is greater on a dyno).

Sorry but you are wrong to say in an AMG car that the tranny “is the car”. Everyone knows AMG’s pride and joy is the engine.

Not sure what your saying about a mechanical “detent” with the 7GA. Do you mean defect. If that is the question the answer is a sharp no. Clearly the complaints are issues with the M-DCT clearly out weigh the 7GA tranny if you spend sometime on each forum. Again how many M-DCT problem/complaint threads can we reference on this forum? I know the software is much more updated in the C63 then it is in the other 63 cars considering the rev matching at downshifts.

My argument is completely REVELAT and anyone owning a M-DCT car will agree. If you were to have a run in your M3 M-DCT around 50MPH and start in 3rd gear you would be out of the power band of the car and surely would fall behind. Again, this goes back to my argument. Any person traveling at 50MPH in a C63 even in sport mode who mashes the throttle will only kick down to 3rd gear (not factoring in time to change gears by the auto). However around 50MPH you can manually downshift to 2nd gear in sport mode and mash the gas being in the power band unlike 3rd gear.

The video you reference with your comments is clearly not what you say. Anyone who is watching this video with an un-bias view can see the guy in the M3 rolling ahead first. This video is also from a dig. If your know anything about racing you will know this is the most difficult situation to be in. For the most part, a rolling start eliminates driver error. Again with an automatic the likely hood of holding the lowest gear to redline is not always the case. Also while driving One of the obvious negatives about the C63 in stock form is the small and dysfunctional 255 Pirelli PZERO tires as compared to the larger and superior stock Michelin PS2 tires.
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      11-20-2010, 10:08 PM   #66
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^

The c63 has a 50% + larger motor; I'm confident it'll be faster in a straight line, without question.

The c63's transmission is most likely the same transmission that's used in all the other 63 series; why would it be a "weak point" in the c63?

IMO comparing a power band of a, much, larger v8 to that of a smaller v8 is worthless, at best.

I would expect the c63 to be faster, more horsepower and torque, coupled to a somewhat comparable vehicle weight; again what is it you're striving to prove about the c63, superiority?

IMO the c63 does one thing well; demonstrate that throwing horsepower at a car doesn't ensure a first place finish.
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