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      10-18-2010, 03:23 PM   #45
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6mt or not, I am still looking forward to the next generation of the M3!
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      10-18-2010, 03:27 PM   #46
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NO WAY it won't come in Manual. C'mon!!!
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      10-18-2010, 03:31 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advskier View Post
With the possible demise of the V8 and 6MT you would think the world is coming to an end. No matter what BMW does, and no matter how well it performs, there is no doubt that plenty of people around here will knock it. I would imagine the same people knocking DCT would have knocked Synchro Mesh as well, when it first came out.
You have it wrong in many ways. Yes, you want some things perfected, like a manual transmission with synchromesh, but not deleted because an automatic (DCT) is now quicker (and no, a manual doesn't need more than 6 gears IMO). It has NOTHING to do with being quicker. And same thing goes with FI. I don't care if the new FI makes 1,000 HP more; I prefer a NA engine. And the V8 is pure personal preference; that's why I never looked at M3s before, until this one .

In summary, I much prefer my NA V8 with 8,300-rpm redline, 6MT, and 414 HP than an Fxx M3 with 1,000 HP, DCT, and a quad-turbo V or I-6 that does 0-60 in 2 seconds . I don't need more than my M3 provides. The M3 can be improved in a ton of ways, but forgoing the NA V8 for even more power was pretty stupid IMO. Just make the car a bit lighter, and the S65 cheaper and more fuel efficient with a single TB (like most other cars). And rather than spending the money on developing a new engine, spend it on better suspension (not freaking struts), and many other things that'd make the car much more appealing IMO. Oh no, but it has to have more power, which needs beefier and heavier drivetrain/suspension components, etc.; a vicious circle. Hope they succeed, but I won't buy another M3.

Last edited by elp_jc; 10-18-2010 at 04:21 PM.
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      10-18-2010, 03:46 PM   #48
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I wonder how many DCT M3s compared to 6MT were sold?

If its like the C6 Corvette (non Z06.ZR1), where autos outsell manuals 2 to 1 maybe BMW just doesnt want to develop a new manual trans/clutch to take the extra pounding of a 450+hp turbo 6 cylinder if the present DCT can handle it.

As for the rest of it, some people think the E46 M3 is a better car than these so change is hard on enthusiasts, but if the new one performs better than the old one (and looks decent) thats all that matters to me..
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      10-18-2010, 03:52 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advskier View Post
With the possible demise of the V8 and 6MT you would think the world is coming to an end.
No matter what BMW does, and no matter how well it performs, there is no doubt that plenty of people around here will knock it.
Even now, plenty of people with older model M3's say the present V8 is not "pure", the car is too luxurious, and that it is too heavy. In spite of the fact that the E9x series outperforms all of the older models, and all of it's present competition. Then there are the people here who want even larger V8's. I would imagine the same people knocking DCT would have knocked Synchro Mesh as well, when it first came out. Electric starters take a lot of the hands-on purity out of the equation as well.

I love the mix of luxury and performance the present M3 offers. It will be interesting to see how the next model M3 improves on the present one, because I have little doubt it will.
In any case, I don't see many people (other than internet posters) running to other brands because of a lack of 6MT, because the other brands won't be offering it either.
If the next M3 is as big of an improvement over the E9x as the E9x was over prior models, and if it destroys the competition the way the E9x has in almost every review, I'm all in.
Well said!
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      10-18-2010, 03:53 PM   #50
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i hope the next M3 is not going to be a twin turbo, even though it seems thats the direction BMW is going.

If so, i'll stick with the e9X m3 b/c it would be the last N/A engine.

That and we all know about the on going class action law suite against the N54 engine and its turbo problems....

if BMW keeps this up, i'll just keep my e60 M5, get the e9X m3, then thats it. Unless they change, I may just move on to another brand.
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      10-18-2010, 03:59 PM   #51
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Is there any proof or technical reason they cant offer a manual? BMW knows many of us want a manual and they are also absorbing other car sales that dropped manual options(audi rs-5). I think a manual will continue.
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      10-18-2010, 04:05 PM   #52
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South, Are you able to tell us where this "speculation" is coming from? Great news for us sedan owners!

D
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      10-18-2010, 04:14 PM   #53
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i am curious too about the sales mix between DCT and 6MT
does anyone know if the GTS shares the same gearbox as the regular M3?
if so then they already have a gearbox that can handle 450hp
issue might be the torque, which will be a lot more than 300 now
i'd guess closer or just above 400lb/ft

so let's get this straight
no N/A
no MT
why don't we just call it S3 for sellout/sissy 3?
why even keep the M name anymore?
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      10-18-2010, 04:26 PM   #54
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Interesting speculations.. we will see.. so so far away!
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      10-18-2010, 05:18 PM   #55
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i have a very hard time believing there will be no 6MT. probably just speculation created see what people would say, at least i hope thats what it is. this isnt even expected to go on sale until when, 2014? there will be plenty of crazy rumors till then, i'll start believing them around 2013
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      10-18-2010, 05:30 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Thanks for the thought provoking post, south.

But, what is the source for the new information? Are you just compiling and summarizing what you've read in a number of places? Or was it from a post SCOTT made elsewhere? The thread you point to above just contains old discussion from a few months back.
If I told you I'd have to kill you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I have to remain very skeptical on this point. The bore of the 3L N55 (and N54) is 84mm. Stroke is 89.6mm. In order to achieve 3.5L the stroke would need to be increased to a whopping 103.8mm.

(Prove this to yourself here: http://www.bgsoflex.com/displacement.html)

That seems really outrageous to me, especially if they are going to hit 7000 RPM (or more) like other BMW turbocharged motors. Plus that extra 14mm would play havoc on the engine geometry. It would basically mean a new block with a higher deck.

Even if we assume they can achieve a bore-size of 86.4mm like the iron-block S52 had, you still need a stroke of 98.1mm. More realistic but I doubt they will go this route anyway - this leaves only 3.6mm of aluminum between the cylinders.
Good points, and I calculated this myself yesterday. Yet, the rumor says 3.5l.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Is it certain that the F25 X3 M would debut before the F3x M3?
Assuming the X3 M gets the green light, yes.


Best regards,
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      10-18-2010, 05:33 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
The E82 1M will be limited in production due to its introduction at a very late time in the e82 platform lifetime.

The next generation F2x 1M, however, will be a full-fledged M citizen. It will have an M specific engine (4 cylinder turbo "S20"). It will get a DCT unlike the E82, and it may well continue to offer a 6MT as well.
There's still a fair degree of speculation as to whether the next 1M will be based on a 6 or 4 cylinder platform.... Unless Scott has confirmed otherwise in the past few days, we're still "guessing" what the engine will be at this point.
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      10-18-2010, 05:46 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip View Post
Scott has already confirmed that the next gen 1M will have a 4 cylinder and the current generation may have a form of the N54.
Fixed that for you.


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      10-18-2010, 05:48 PM   #59
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The next M3 may or may be not have a 6mt, but the present one will be in production at minimum 'till 2014.
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      10-18-2010, 06:06 PM   #60
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What about a small twin scroll turbo that gives way to twin single scroll turbos ar higher RPMs...? Helps to get rid of turbo lag at low RPMs while allowing a huge amount of flow up to redline...
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      10-18-2010, 06:16 PM   #61
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i'd like further details on the end of production for the E9X M3.

does South mean MY2011 or 2011 calender (and hence MY2012)???
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      10-18-2010, 06:26 PM   #62
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Rumors rumors rumors, dont worry about it guys, im pretty sure there will be a 6MT.
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      10-18-2010, 06:27 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJM3 View Post
I wonder how many DCT M3s compared to 6MT were sold?........
Final sale figures of the SMG II on the E46 M3 was 50/50. My guess is that it's higher than that with the E9x, in favor of the twin-clutch system. Maybe 70/30? We'll see when final production numbers come out.
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      10-18-2010, 06:29 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toptounov View Post
The next M3 may or may be not have a 6mt, but the present one will be in production at minimum 'till 2014.
Are you saying they will still be producing E9x M3's long after the F3x 3 series is in production? Not sure I believe that...
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      10-18-2010, 06:56 PM   #65
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^ they wont, history repeats itself, it will take a break just as it did when e46 quit production...

----------

Can't wait to pick up a loaded last model year e90 M3 when its about 3 years used...

I don't have anything against this idea of the next M3 (except no MT, that would be a TOTAL deal breaker for me), just love that V8!
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      10-18-2010, 06:56 PM   #66
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Can SCOTT or anyone with more info please tell us approximately when (month and year) the E9x M3's production will end? And possibly break the dates down to E90, E92 and E93.

I'm sure a lot of members would like to know this to accommodate their orders.

Thanks
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