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      10-18-2010, 01:45 PM   #23
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Got to have a 6spd...
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      10-18-2010, 01:45 PM   #24
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Damn these are some pretty wild speculations...

Even though I ordered DCT I don't think it should be the standard. There should always be a choice.
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      10-18-2010, 01:54 PM   #25
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At least there may be a sedan... I'm not believing the no manual option aspect.
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      10-18-2010, 01:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Following this thread, I came across some more speculation on the engine powering the next generation M3, called the F3x M3.
Thanks for the thought provoking post, south.

But, what is the source for the new information? Are you just compiling and summarizing what you've read in a number of places? Or was it from a post SCOTT made elsewhere? The thread you point to above just contains old discussion from a few months back.

Quote:
- The displacement will be increased from 3.0l to 3.5l. We've had a discussion on this possibility earlier here, and came to the conclusion it wasn't possible based on the N55's cylinder spacing. What we didn't know back then is that BMW wouldn't touch the N55's bore, but implement this increase solely by adding stroke. In other words, crank and heads will be different from the N55.
I have to remain very skeptical on this point. The bore of the 3L N55 (and N54) is 84mm. Stroke is 89.6mm. In order to achieve 3.5L the stroke would need to be increased to a whopping 103.8mm.

(Prove this to yourself here: http://www.bgsoflex.com/displacement.html)

That seems really outrageous to me, especially if they are going to hit 7000 RPM (or more) like other BMW turbocharged motors. Plus that extra 14mm would play havoc on the engine geometry. It would basically mean a new block with a higher deck.

Even if we assume they can achieve a bore-size of 86.4mm like the iron-block S52 had, you still need a stroke of 98.1mm. More realistic but I doubt they will go this route anyway - this leaves only 3.6mm of aluminum between the cylinders.


Quote:
As of now, it sounds like the next M3 will only be available with a seven speed DCT transmission. No 6MT!
Not too surprising if true, though I will wait to see what happens with the F1x M5/M6. If those get a 6MT (and I am not saying they will) then surely the M3 will as well.

Quote:
Also, as things look now, there will be an F30 M3 sedan complementing the F32 M3 coupe and the F33 M3 convertible again.
Last I heard, no F30 M3 was currently planned. Good news if they have decided to put it back on the roadmap.

Quote:
Now we can add the first, yet most important, fact about this car: It will basically share the engine with the F3x M3. In other words, BMW would choose the same route as with the X5/6M and let an early version of the S55 engine debut in the X3 M.
Is it certain that the F25 X3 M would debut before the F3x M3?

Quote:
The rumor has it that the E9x M3 ends production in 2011, including the E92 and E93 M3.
Wow, 2011 now? Recently SCOTT had said 2012.
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      10-18-2010, 02:07 PM   #27
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X3 M? Really? Looks like they're whoring out the M brand. THey at least better come out with a Z4M.
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      10-18-2010, 02:13 PM   #28
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No manual transmission for the M3? Shame on you BMW.
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      10-18-2010, 02:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3KW View Post
Final month would be the time they change the model year to 2012, I cannot help you here but perhaps someone may have some info.
So you think there WILL be a MY2012 though? And it's just that production will stop in the year 2011, and not necessarily MY2011?

Edit: Think I misinterpreted your post, I believe you're saying that production ends with MY2011 (aka when MY2012 begins) which is probably early next year?

Last edited by jra85; 10-18-2010 at 02:24 PM.
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      10-18-2010, 02:17 PM   #30
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Let's see: no more V8, no more N/A, no more high-rev limit, and no more 6MT? That'd be great for resale value for us 6MT owners, no ? The M3 would be out of contention with just ONE of the four things mentioned above, so it's pretty obvious this is my first and last M3, so don't particularly care, but if no 6MT materializes, BMW is shooting itself on the foot indeed. But it's definitely possible since many sports cars are not offering a manual anymore, including the M5/6.

Lazy, fat Americans want everything done for them, including the driving . Heck, many can't even freaking park their cars anymore, and need 'park assist' (geez). And how about 'radar cruise control', and 'infrared activated wipers'. It's sad to watch. I knew once slush boxes shifted quicker than a manual it was going downhill from there, and unfortunately, I was right. But with only very few of us who enjoy the full driving experience, it just doesn't make sense for manufacturers to offer it anymore. Thankfully a few cars still remain committed to that, so I shouldn't be able to see the 6MT demise before I hit the sack. Rant off folks .

Last edited by elp_jc; 10-18-2010 at 02:56 PM.
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      10-18-2010, 02:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonNW View Post
It could be that BMW is trying to position the M3 as their fastest offering, and the 1M as their most rowdy and fun offering (with a manual.)
But the 1M is limited production.
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      10-18-2010, 02:24 PM   #32
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      10-18-2010, 02:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
Let's see: no more V8, no more N/A, no high-rev limit, and no more 6MT?
That right there is technological masturbation at it's finest! (Sarcastically speaking...).

to BMW.
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      10-18-2010, 02:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonNW View Post
It could be that BMW is trying to position the M3 as their fastest offering, and the 1M as their most rowdy and fun offering (with a manual.)
I suspect the new M6 would probably be substantially faster than the F3x M3 with it's V8 turbo.
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      10-18-2010, 02:47 PM   #35
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I am not sure about the deletion of the manual transmission. I know in terms of manual they refer to only two cars the 1M and the M3.
Due to the technology that comes with the M5 I think this has killed the manual transmission. M5's I have seen, all included M-DCT.

As for the E90 successor , I have heard nothing official rather than just Coupe and Cabrio models next time around.

But X3 is coming as is an X4 - The X4 is moving rapidly now and like the X5 and X6 before it the introduction of an M variant will mean the X3 also comes along for the ride.

As for the engine debate - The N55 forms the basis for the next M3 but as suggested before it is not a complete transplant.
If you look at the powerplant for the forthcoming M5 it is "based" on the poweplant found in the X's it is not a complete transplant the engine is enhanced to accomodate the character of the M5 meaning more power, etc.

Same goes for the 1M and indeed the M3. The M engineers are experts in finding solutions that seperate the cars and that is something that wont change , every engine could be the same but not all of the cars are the same - M is about character and each car has to have a unique character and that includes engines. Dogmas might be thrown out the window , but an M will always be an M not a superfast BMW 135i, 335i or 550i.
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      10-18-2010, 02:49 PM   #36
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DCT will shine on the track - and thats what M3s are made to do - shine on the track, and be utilitarian enough to stop at the grocery store on the way back home.

hopefully bmw will perfect the DCT and it will be offered in all the models.
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      10-18-2010, 02:51 PM   #37
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Not to mention there are already reports of N55 HPFP failures.
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      10-18-2010, 02:57 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
But the 1M is limited production.
The E82 1M will be limited in production due to its introduction at a very late time in the e82 platform lifetime.

The next generation F2x 1M, however, will be a full-fledged M citizen. It will have an M specific engine (4 cylinder turbo "S20"). It will get a DCT unlike the E82, and it may well continue to offer a 6MT as well.

If I do get another M vehicle it will likely be a F23 1M convertible. However, I am thinking the upcoming Mercedes C63 convertible sounds more attractive at this point (admittedly, its very early - I won't be buying for years) since it will be a V8. Though it too will turbocharged. Another possibility is a Cadillac ATS-V if it gets a V8 (which is doubtful frankly). Or, I might just get a more pedestrian DD (Toyota FT-86 anyone?) and look into building up my own V8 powered weekend car. Oh, and next generation Mustang is on the list too, if they put in an IRS and give it a DCT.
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      10-18-2010, 02:58 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VonSwoopington View Post
Damn these are some pretty wild speculations...

Even though I ordered DCT I don't think it should be the standard. There should always be a choice.
My thoughts exactly.
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      10-18-2010, 03:09 PM   #40
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im a bit confused. people on here love p-cars and cars such as the gtr. i.e. force injected non v8's. if a new m3 gave the raw performace of a gtr, would you complain?

now, I do understand complaining about no 6mt
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      10-18-2010, 03:11 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E39hijinks View Post
If BMW does not include a manual in the new M3, I will have lost all faith for the brand.
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      10-18-2010, 03:16 PM   #42
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hmm, So if the M3 goes out of production next year that means that MY2012 will start in March 2011 and end in August 2011. This seems to fall right in line with what BMW has said about the 1M being the filler between M3 productions since it goes into production 1st-2nd quarter 2011 and will presumably end with MY2014 in late 2013. Seems logical...ish
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      10-18-2010, 03:18 PM   #43
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With the possible demise of the V8 and 6MT you would think the world is coming to an end.
No matter what BMW does, and no matter how well it performs, there is no doubt that plenty of people around here will knock it.
Even now, plenty of people with older model M3's say the present V8 is not "pure", the car is too luxurious, and that it is too heavy. In spite of the fact that the E9x series outperforms all of the older models, and all of it's present competition. Then there are the people here who want even larger V8's. I would imagine the same people knocking DCT would have knocked Synchro Mesh as well, when it first came out. Electric starters take a lot of the hands-on purity out of the equation as well.

I love the mix of luxury and performance the present M3 offers. It will be interesting to see how the next model M3 improves on the present one, because I have little doubt it will.
In any case, I don't see many people (other than internet posters) running to other brands because of a lack of 6MT, because the other brands won't be offering it either.
If the next M3 is as big of an improvement over the E9x as the E9x was over prior models, and if it destroys the competition the way the E9x has in almost every review, I'm all in.
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      10-18-2010, 03:22 PM   #44
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