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      10-04-2010, 11:07 AM   #23
Blubaron79
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Every one needs to get over it. They are newer, smaller models. Your typical 3, and 5 series is unchanged. I'm sick of every one bitching.
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      10-04-2010, 11:15 AM   #24
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im sure someone will buy it and probably wont be able to tell the difference between FWD and RWD
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      10-04-2010, 11:22 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
Every one needs to get over it. They are newer, smaller models. Your typical 3, and 5 series is unchanged. I'm sick of every one bitching.
While I respect your right to feel this way I think that the sharing and voicing of opinions on the subject is what forums are all ablout. It is here that we can share our thoughts about the introduction of FWD to the BMW lineup.

I will mention to most that there was similar vocal attitudes that still exists today about BMW building V8 engines. I dont think that the "worth" of the badge was erroded by the introduction of a V-style motor anymore than there will be for the introduction of a FWD car.

In the end it will be a BMW FWD car, I have faith that it will not be a throw away ilttle tin can like a base line civic or focus. No disrespect to these cars (I own one of them) but there is no way BMW will churn out carbon copy, tin cans with FWD.

It will be interesting to see how they turn the I6 sideways and not make the car 15 feet wide..
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      10-04-2010, 11:24 AM   #26
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Perhaps they will make a pocket rocket variant and move the front engine/transaxle to the rear. Something along the lines of the old Toyota MR2. They will have their work cut out to compete with the likes of VW & Honda in the FWD market.

Beyond boosting BMW's EPA average I can't see FWD cars of this class being a good thing for them. Strange that they would want to directly compete with their own Mini brand.
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      10-04-2010, 11:30 AM   #27
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Thumbs up

Do you really think that such a multi-billion corporation as BMW will make a ''WRONG'' step into the future?!?!?
It is so simple and has already been proved. Did Mercedes bankrupt via A class or SMART??? Hell NO! This is one of the most profitable branches... As well as RWD eats too much costs for a budget, small size, town car. It is also proven that with the right LSD diff(for ex. Alfa Q2, Focus ST) even a 200hp threshold could be beaten.
In such tough financial years with the massively growing environmental restrictions every car manufacturer MUST add a low consumption, small size, budget car into its palette even an electric car will soon be a must in order every car company to be inside the CO2 average limitations.
If you do not like this idea or conception just look at it from another angle: in order to drive RWD or AWD BMW made by perfection there has to be a FWD down there in the chain/product mix.
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      10-04-2010, 11:34 AM   #28
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booooo. BMW is starting to slip the past year or so, no sign of stopping yet
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      10-04-2010, 11:56 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Feli_330i View Post
Thankfully the world is suppose to end in 2012, so we won't have to see this.
So true. It's so funny how times change. I remember an era where BMW used to BASE IT'S SUPERIORITY in the fact that its cars were PERFECTLY BALANCED REAR-WHEEL DRIVE models. Jeremy Clarkson said it best "To BMW front-wheel drive is the work of satan." Well I guess when you play with fire you get burnt right, so BMW is gonna be burned in the long run. Excecutives will be thrilled though in the first couple of years with the extra sales of badge whores rushing the BMW dealerships to get their sub $30k BMWs. But when the brand image starts fading and the Audi and Mercedes keep improving their cars and sticking to their roots, the shift of loyal BMW customers to Audi and Mercedes is going to be unstoppable. Farewell BMW king of the market.

Has anyone seen the new Mercedes commericals?? They show you the Actual car and why it's "Nothing less than a TRUE Mercedes Benz", those are the type of commercials BMW used to make. The new marketing campaigns for BMW are bullsheeeatt.


What the fu$kkkk do BMW executives have to say about the BMW Rabbit ad. that said "that's why we don't have front wheel drives"
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      10-04-2010, 11:56 AM   #30
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BMW will reach it's peak with the 1M, and it's all down hill from there.
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      10-04-2010, 12:07 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_328i View Post
The real issue I have is that BMW is really just trying to be all things to all people.
BINGO.


What has always made BMW different, is that they were a small company, with VERY strong engineering principles. Now they are becoming a large company with VERY strong marketing / sales / financial principles. How did this happen you ask? When you hire someone who has a bunch of fancy degrees but truly doesn't appreciate the culture, history or soul of the company that is hiring them, you get a growing body of number crunchers; people who think, "wow, this looks great on paper so it must be great"; these people continue to grow in numbers has they begin to rise through the ranks and begin to impart a larger influence on the company's hiring practices, which in turn turns out more of this new breed of employee till finally their numbers and seniority are strong enough to change / alter affect the company's methods, beliefs and stated mission statement.

For those of you who have no idea what I'm blabbing on about, picture your local NHL team. Why NHL you ask? Because like BMW its a sport that despite is professional status, still behaves and feels much like a small sport that has hung onto its values and beliefs above all else. NHL teams have two distinct, and in many ways, separate divisions of the front office: the hockey operations and sales operations:

1) Sales encompasses all the smart marketing, sales, cost factoring
men and woman with fancy degrees and experience from many
places other than Professional Hockey.

2) Hockey operations encompasses your scouting department, talent
evaluation, GM, etc. Now, no right-minded owner has one side's
experts run the other sides.

You may say that one side "affects" the other and that is in fact true, but one does not in any way have the authority to make decisions for the other (salary cap concerns are actually managed by the hockey side).

BMW, as clearly evidenced by many of the bone-head statements from many of their new executives, has blurred the line of separation that NHL teams maintain and know to never blur. BMW continues to cut down on engineers, and load up on marketing and sales guys. Their heads of divisions continue to scare many of us with statements that expose their complete lack of understanding or appreciation of what has made BMW, and its brand, what it is today.

No, I am not yearning for them to remake the e36, I really don't have my head that far up my a**. What I am asking for, is for BMW to say, "This is who we are, we are not you, or him, or her, we are BMW. There are many things we do and many things we don't do. We focus on the things we do, maximize our profits, and continue to strengthen our identity and resolve to remember and maintain who we are." BMW has failed to do this and this failure I fear will grow like a cancer that can only weaken the company.

Rather you are seeing BMW do what many U.S. companies have done, and regretted: let their ego and greed convince them that they should do more, be more, and accomplish more. Its why many U.S. companies are being strangled under the reporting and operation requirements that comes with becoming a listed company; the effects of which they truly did not comprehend when deciding to go public. All they say were the dollar signs that CAN BE (not guaranteed) associated with going public. Hence, why the trend of the last few years is as many companies de-listing as listing, something, which by the way, takes a WHOLE LOT OF CAPITAL.

BMW decisions won't take hold today or even tomorrow, as the the reputation of the brand will withstand this onslaught for years, however, once the idea takes hold in the consumers minds that the product represents X, instead of Y, no matter what BMW does at that moment, she will begin to slide from public favor, which will further weaken the company.

BMW, is making the same mistakes Merc did oh so many years ago, mistakes that Merc has yet to recover from as evidenced by the decline in quality and market share as compared to 20yrs ago. Mistakes that were made well before any of us truly saw the impacts of those mistakes, but believe me, regardless of the delay of consequence stemming from our mistakes, the day of payment ALWAYS arrives.

Cheers,
e46e92
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      10-04-2010, 12:09 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWI6 View Post
So true. It's so funny how times change. I remember an era where BMW used to BASE IT'S SUPERIORITY in the fact that its cars were PERFECTLY BALANCED REAR-WHEEL DRIVE models. Jeremy Clarkson said it best "To BMW front-wheel drive is the work of satan." Well I guess when you play with fire you get burnt right, so BMW is gonna be burned in the long run. Excecutives will be thrilled though in the first couple of years with the extra sales of badge whores rushing the BMW dealerships to get their sub $30k BMWs. But when the brand image starts fading and the Audi and Mercedes keep improving their cars and sticking to their roots, the shift of loyal BMW customers to Audi and Mercedes is going to be unstoppable. Farewell BMW king of the market.

Has anyone seen the new Mercedes commericals?? They show you the Actual car and why it's "Nothing less than a TRUE Mercedes Benz", those are the type of commercials BMW used to make. The new marketing campaigns for BMW are bullsheeeatt.


What the fu$kkkk do BMW executives have to say about the BMW Rabbit ad. that said "that's why we don't have front wheel drives"
Think of it as more funding towards the development of RWD performance cars.

Clarkson is NEVER over dramatic

They will be solid... well round cars.. No doubt.
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      10-04-2010, 12:17 PM   #33
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      10-04-2010, 12:17 PM   #34
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      10-04-2010, 12:20 PM   #35
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I know all you frothing-at-the mouth fanatics are worried about he brand but you have to realize, part of he reason BMW is doing this is to SAVE their high end sport models. By law in the US and eurozone BMW will have to comply with strict regulations that are averaged throughout their fleet.

You know how you average out all those m3s we love here: build a freakin fwd electric mini car.

JeeZe this is so obvious, you'd think all the 'fanatics' here could put 2 and 2 together.
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      10-04-2010, 12:29 PM   #36
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      10-04-2010, 12:39 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TsunamiFury View Post
I know all you frothing-at-the mouth fanatics are worried about he brand but you have to realize, part of he reason BMW is doing this is to SAVE their high end sport models. By law in the US and eurozone BMW will have to comply with strict regulations that are averaged throughout their fleet.

You know how you average out all those m3s we love here: build a freakin fwd electric mini car.

JeeZe this is so obvious, you'd think all the 'fanatics' here could put 2 and 2 together.

No, no and no. BMW could easily utilize the small displacement gas and diesel engines they already have available to them and continue to work towards more fuel-efficient engines so they can better meet CAFE standards.
BMW is not working to "save" their high end models- they're working for higher margins and more profits. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I'm just depressed (And honestly if you love cars you should be too) that after so many years, BMW has lost one of the unique qualities that make it so great- an entire line up of RWD only cars.
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      10-04-2010, 12:42 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by BMWI6 View Post
So true. It's so funny how times change. I remember an era where BMW used to BASE IT'S SUPERIORITY in the fact that its cars were PERFECTLY BALANCED REAR-WHEEL DRIVE models. Jeremy Clarkson said it best "To BMW front-wheel drive is the work of satan." Well I guess when you play with fire you get burnt right, so BMW is gonna be burned in the long run. Excecutives will be thrilled though in the first couple of years with the extra sales of badge whores rushing the BMW dealerships to get their sub $30k BMWs. But when the brand image starts fading and the Audi and Mercedes keep improving their cars and sticking to their roots, the shift of loyal BMW customers to Audi and Mercedes is going to be unstoppable. Farewell BMW king of the market.

Has anyone seen the new Mercedes commericals?? They show you the Actual car and why it's "Nothing less than a TRUE Mercedes Benz", those are the type of commercials BMW used to make. The new marketing campaigns for BMW are bullsheeeatt.


What the fu$kkkk do BMW executives have to say about the BMW Rabbit ad. that said "that's why we don't have front wheel drives"

Yup, look at Apple for example. Back in the day this company was all about delivering the perfect computer for professionals (ie. Graphic Designers, Video Editors, etc..) Always ahead of the competition, beautifully designed and really fast machines with all the Ins and Outs the creative professional needed. Also the added factor of "exclusivity", a premium product that only a few had... only a few understood. That made them very special.

Now... After the iPod, iPhone, iPad etc.. they are more focused on making $, I'm not saying that is a bad thing. But one cannot forget its roots, look at their retail stores tables full of iProducts, cheap macbooks and macbook"pro"s... that pro doesn't stand for anything anymore. Glossy screens, lack of professional In/Outs like PCI slots or eSata that any PC now a days has. And in the corner just one MacPro...most of the time it doesn't even have its price or specs listed. They are too mainstream now, too focused on making more $, and what made them special is now gone. I'm not saying they make bad products now, they are great... but Apple doesn't stand for what it used to stand for.

This is what could happen with BMW, and it would be very sad. You can't one day decide to contradict what you have been saying for 50 years. BMW is suppose to be all bout the perfect balance, incredible handling of their beautifully tuned RWD chassis. A luxury saloon car, a sports car, reliable and comfortable transportation all in one. Look at what happened to the M division, they bragged so much about their N/A High Revving engine.. in about 5 years all new M cars will have at least one Turbo.

I understand that times change and companies need to change and adapt to different factors, like economy, trends and market. But don't change what makes you special... one can only be so loyal. I never thought that BMW would try to get into a market below the 1-Series... they already have revenue coming from MINI. I hope it doesn't go downhill from that point on.

Sorry for the long post... had to vent.
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      10-04-2010, 12:57 PM   #39
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It will be interesting to see how they turn the I6 sideways and not make the car 15 feet wide..
Not sure if that was tongue-in-cheek or what. If not, check out the post by SCOTT linked by the OP - he mentions 3 cyl and 4 cyl engines (which makes sense given this will be a subcompact built on a platform shared with Mini).

Even so, Volvo has the transverse I6 in the S60 and while that is no compact, its no where near 15 feet wide either. That said, I don't think BMW will be building a FWD I6 powered car any time soon, if ever..
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      10-04-2010, 01:02 PM   #40
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This is old news people, get over it, it will happen.

Here's another scoop for you. The new platform will abandon the F## codes in favor of a platform-based code name. That name will be used by multiple brands within the BMW family.

And wrap your heads around this: FWD 3-Cyl BMW's.
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      10-04-2010, 01:03 PM   #41
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      10-04-2010, 01:07 PM   #42
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that is retarded
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      10-04-2010, 01:08 PM   #43
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we all learn at a young age that FWD sucks.
i see no point in this.
BMW are meant to be RWD.
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      10-04-2010, 01:15 PM   #44
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Quote:
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You know how you average out all those m3s we love here: build a freakin fwd electric mini car.
The drive wheels are not germane to the issue of fuel efficiency. As I pointed out above the Megacity is RWD.

And for that matter, the FWD vehicle that is the topic of this thread is not an electric car anyway. They may offer an electric version at some point but the initial models and vast majority of the sales volume will be gasonline (diesel, outside US) engine powered. Essentially, these will be Mini-like vehicles with BMW brading and styling cues. It's true that this will contribute positively toward CAFE, but so would an equivalent RWD vehicle.

So, the move toward FWD for this model line is motivated almost purely by the fact that they already have the platform (Mini) at their disposal.
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