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      03-25-2007, 09:01 PM   #45
M3onTwomps
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Damn, you must be a really shitty driver to have a CLS AMG beat you on the twisties....
Glad someone said it.
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      03-26-2007, 06:57 AM   #46
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Damn, you must be a really shitty driver to have a CLS AMG beat you on the twisties....
LOL ok, itís possible Iím not the best driver in the world. However if you do some research you will see that the 63 AMGs are actually quite fast around race tracks such as NŁrburgring Nordschleife. Any case, check out this link of the M5 ring taxi around Nordschleife.
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      03-26-2007, 10:38 PM   #47
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You know a lot of these cars (M3, RS4, etc...) are so good, and so close, that relatively speaking most of them are amazing and very capable vehicles, and the performance differences between them are getting narrower each generation. The difference is really in the company's respective mantras. Audi loves forced induction and AWD, Benz loves low-end torquey motors and advanced auto trannies, and BMW like racing inspired engines w/ high redlines, and sharp handling, and I love BMW for that.

Looking at the e92 M3, it's safe to say that it has as much torque as a 335, but 120 more horses. It's also slightly lighter, will have an LSD, better transmission, finely tuned suspension and steering, beefier brakes, a higher redline, etc... Now the 335 is an awesome machine, so awesome in fact, that it would give an E46 M3 a run for it's money. The E46 would undoubtedly win, and let's not foget, the E46 has LESS torque than the 335.

So know the E92 has AS MUCH torque as a 335, AND 120 more horses, plus all the shit I mentioned above. Drop the ball? I don't think so. It could be argued BMW dropped the ball in Europe when the E46 M3 had only like 20 more HP than the Euro spec E39 M3.

As for the weight issue, fuck man, it's inevitable. Will all the technology, its bound to happen. Plus engines get bigger and interiors get bigger. Would anybody put up w/ a next generation BMW that had a smaller engine and interior. Albeit, many of us on these forums would, but we represent maybe 2% of the BMW buying demographic. It's a business, and most buyers want the goodies, they're not race car enthusiasts or BMW purists. That's why BMW makes CSL's man. At least they're trying, I mean a carbon fiber roof on an M3?, shit only the super high end M6 can claim that. They're going in the right direction, BMW is. Efficiency, and weight, and always about the handling. Keep it up guys.
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      03-26-2007, 11:04 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by M3ToolFiend View Post
You know a lot of these cars (M3, RS4, etc...) are so good, and so close, that relatively speaking most of them are amazing and very capable vehicles, and the performance differences between them are getting narrower each generation. The difference is really in the company's respective mantras. Audi loves forced induction and AWD, Benz loves low-end torquey motors and advanced auto trannies, and BMW like racing inspired engines w/ high redlines, and sharp handling, and I love BMW for that.

Looking at the e92 M3, it's safe to say that it has as much torque as a 335, but 120 more horses. It's also slightly lighter, will have an LSD, better transmission, finely tuned suspension and steering, beefier brakes, a higher redline, etc... Now the 335 is an awesome machine, so awesome in fact, that it would give an E46 M3 a run for it's money. The E46 would undoubtedly win, and let's not foget, the E46 has LESS torque than the 335.

So know the E92 has AS MUCH torque as a 335, AND 120 more horses, plus all the shit I mentioned above. Drop the ball? I don't think so. It could be argued BMW dropped the ball in Europe when the E46 M3 had only like 20 more HP than the Euro spec E39 M3.

As for the weight issue, fuck man, it's inevitable. Will all the technology, its bound to happen. Plus engines get bigger and interiors get bigger. Would anybody put up w/ a next generation BMW that had a smaller engine and interior. Albeit, many of us on these forums would, but we represent maybe 2% of the BMW buying demographic. It's a business, and most buyers want the goodies, they're not race car enthusiasts or BMW purists. That's why BMW makes CSL's man. At least they're trying, I mean a carbon fiber roof on an M3?, shit only the super high end M6 can claim that. They're going in the right direction, BMW is. Efficiency, and weight, and always about the handling. Keep it up guys.
Very well put. It's about a specific company's performance brief. Mercedes', though torque rich, are too heavy and traction limited. They will evetually have to stop their over-engine-ing madness. Too much mass, too much fuel, too little balance.

You have to hand it to Audi, the RS4/R8 are stunning pieces of kit. And they will continue to climb the dynamic mountain since Porsche just bought controlling interest in the VW Group.

...And they have the traction to put that power on the road where it belongs. So, and don't hate me: an average RS4 driver, on a above average road, may be able to out drive an this new M3. They are nailing their performance brief.

BMW, will be fine but you have to realize they are a sitting target. Lexus, Audi, and Nissan (GT-R)are going to catch up.

But BMWs low mass, storied past, and electric handling was, is, and always will be a stunning combination.

Competition is good for us because we will get a fantastic cadre of cars to choose from...this new M3 included.
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