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      10-02-2010, 08:33 AM   #243
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More drivetrain loss due to the IRS.

Dave
Let's say the difference is 30 HP at the drive wheels. Are you saying that the CV joints are eating this up?

If so, what keeps them from bursting into flame? 30 HP is over 22,000 watts of heat.

By the way, CV joints are at least as efficient as u-joints in terms of transmission of power - meaning quite efficient indeed.

You're going to have to come up with a better reason for the difference.

Bruce
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      10-02-2010, 12:07 PM   #244
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Foosh,

Can you post some pics of your 5.0? and can you give us your opinion on the 5.0 so far?
Stingray,

See post #213 in this thread for my early 5.0 impressions.

I don't feel right about posting Mustang pictures on an M3 forum. This thread is going too well, and I don't want to upset the delicate balance.
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      10-02-2010, 01:05 PM   #245
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I never troll other sites, but I do like to read what other car people have to say about different models. Sometimes the fan boys run rampant and it is pretty comical.

I had time to kill and thought this article would have the bmw crowd all up in arms, but I have to say, you guys have it together over here. I was honestly amazed at how many people actually believed ford did a good job and like the car, even if they would not buy one themselves. There was very little hatin just because the mustang is not a bmw. And you guys do a great job at policing BS info and keeping people honest.

Sad to say, the mustang forums I visit are way more biased and fan boyish than you guys. Its a refreshing change from so many other sites (camaro, cough*mustang*cough, challenger.)
There are probably a lot of former (or current) Mustang owners who now have BMWs on here, whereas on sites like The Corral there are probably not too many late model BMW owners.
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      10-02-2010, 01:11 PM   #246
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Well, it's not late model, but when I was stationed in Germany (2000-2006) I had an e30 325 5 spd and I LOVED that car. 170,000 k's on it for $1400. It was considered a "beater" there, but it put a smile on my face everyday. I am going back again soon and will be looking for another one as soon as I get off the plane.

I rented plenty of new 3 series, gas and diesel, but never had the pleasure of driving an M. Probably for the best though. Sadly it's out of my price range
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      10-02-2010, 02:41 PM   #247
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Wow, Ford is playing their A game . I have driven the new 5.0 which was impressive, but this new twin turbo F150 should be an amazing little toy hauler.
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      10-02-2010, 03:10 PM   #248
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major kudos to ford.... Il keep the M3.
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      10-02-2010, 06:57 PM   #249
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You're going to have to come up with a better reason for the difference.
I do??

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      10-02-2010, 08:13 PM   #250
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There are probably a lot of former (or current) Mustang owners who now have BMWs on here, whereas on sites like The Corral there are probably not too many late model BMW owners.
i had 3 mustang gts before my 335. the 335 just isnt sporting enough for me, so i will probably pick up a gt500 or 1m and give my car to the wifey.
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      10-02-2010, 08:32 PM   #251
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If the GT500 is on your radar I don't know how you can even justify ANY M car. The GT is already a dead heat with the M3, a GT500 should take the 1M and the M3 in a walk. If Ford had a sedan with the performance of the Mustang GT or the GT500 was available here (AAFES is only bringing in 2 and you have to enter a raffle to even have a chance to buy one!) I might not be in an M3 now.
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      10-03-2010, 12:19 AM   #252
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If the GT500 is on your radar I don't know how you can even justify ANY M car. The GT is already a dead heat with the M3, a GT500 should take the 1M and the M3 in a walk. If Ford had a sedan with the performance of the Mustang GT or the GT500 was available here (AAFES is only bringing in 2 and you have to enter a raffle to even have a chance to buy one!) I might not be in an M3 now.
Its really complicated. I love the raw power of the gt500, I like the fact that I can work on it and I LOVE microsoft sync.

I love the comfort of the BMW and the great service I get at the dealership (I dont have to worry about them breaking something on my car, like I have to with ford) and I like the gas mileage of the N54 motors.

But....I absolutely hate the ipod connection in the 335i. I have 10,000 songs on my IPOD and my god does it take FOREVER to get to what I want to hear using that stupid little knob.
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      10-03-2010, 01:04 AM   #253
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Agreed, everyone keeps commenting on fit and finish...and yes the M3 does have the edge here, but its 20k more money. I too was surprised on how well put together the Mustang is.

Dave
20K more?? Closer to 40K up here!!

I test drove the GT today and was quite impressed. It definitely feels faster than the M3, sounds amazing, and for 40K less is the no brainer bang for your buck car out there right now. Styling is subjective (I actually don't think the M3 is all that hot, rather weak from the back third IMHO) but the fit and finish on the new GT was surprisingly good.

Bottomline.....there's no freakn way the M3 is worth double the cost of the new Mustang GT. Sorry guys.
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      10-03-2010, 07:28 AM   #254
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If money is no object. then the M3 is a better overall car. I actually test driven the 5.0.
Liked it a lot but it felt still a little disconnected. Though the interior was pretty nice for a car in that price range, got to admit.
I still prefer my M, it just has that little something.
Now if one is looking at stretching their budget to get in an M or being able to comfortably afford a GT 5.0... thats a no brainer.
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      10-03-2010, 08:45 AM   #255
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Its really complicated. I love the raw power of the gt500, I like the fact that I can work on it and I LOVE microsoft sync.

I love the comfort of the BMW and the great service I get at the dealership (I dont have to worry about them breaking something on my car, like I have to with ford) and I like the gas mileage of the N54 motors.

But....I absolutely hate the ipod connection in the 335i. I have 10,000 songs on my IPOD and my god does it take FOREVER to get to what I want to hear using that stupid little knob.
I just select the playlist I want and then hit random.
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      10-03-2010, 09:48 AM   #256
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I do??

Dave
Not if you're out of gas on the issue.
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      10-03-2010, 04:37 PM   #257
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Not if you're out of gas on the issue.
sputter...sputter...sputter...

All joking aside, I feel the Coyote motor is just underrated. Also the M3s 414hp rating is with 93 octane not the 91 octane the Coyote motors hp rating is based on. Do you have the answers??

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      10-03-2010, 06:52 PM   #258
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sputter...sputter...sputter...

All joking aside, I feel the Coyote motor is just underrated. Also the M3s 414hp rating is with 93 octane not the 91 octane the Coyote motors hp rating is based on. Do you have the answers??

Dave
It is. I read recently it actually tested at 430 hp and 425 torque.
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      10-03-2010, 09:16 PM   #259
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I don't really believe that.

The Mustang weighs almost the same as the M3 and yet, it is not any faster in a straight line in acceleration tests. The trap speed is the best indicator of power to weight and it certainly is in the same ballpark as the M3.


Quote:
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sputter...sputter...sputter...

All joking aside, I feel the Coyote motor is just underrated. Also the M3s 414hp rating is with 93 octane not the 91 octane the Coyote motors hp rating is based on. Do you have the answers??

Dave
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      10-03-2010, 10:32 PM   #260
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I don't really believe that.

The Mustang weighs almost the same as the M3 and yet, it is not any faster in a straight line in acceleration tests. The trap speed is the best indicator of power to weight and it certainly is in the same ballpark as the M3.
My guess is the M3 probably has more aggressive gearing ratio.
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      10-03-2010, 11:27 PM   #261
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sputter...sputter...sputter...

All joking aside, I feel the Coyote motor is just underrated. Also the M3s 414hp rating is with 93 octane not the 91 octane the Coyote motors hp rating is based on. Do you have the answers??

Dave
Haven't a clue, but it does seem as if some of these new 5.0s are a bunch stronger than others. Ringers? Early production issues?

We'll have a better trend line as time goes by.

Bruce
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      10-03-2010, 11:28 PM   #262
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My guess is the M3 probably has more aggressive gearing ratio.
Not an issue. It's power, and more important, power to weight that matters.

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      10-04-2010, 12:51 AM   #263
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Ford is notorious for having a large variance in power from one engine to the next.

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Haven't a clue, but it does seem as if some of these new 5.0s are a bunch stronger than others. Ringers? Early production issues?

We'll have a better trend line as time goes by.

Bruce
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      10-04-2010, 10:06 AM   #264
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Ford is notorious for having a large variance in power from one engine to the next.
It is also somewhat common for Ford to underrate their engines after the 99 Cobra fiasco. Everyone is happy if they find out their engine makes more power than advertised, but buyers are understandably upset if it makes less than advertised. Underrated is apparently the case with the new 5.0 according to almost every one that dyno's the car.
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