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      09-10-2010, 11:48 AM   #67
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Eric Rudolph
Yeah, but when have you heard of a white collar white guy killing in the name of Christianity?
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      09-10-2010, 11:55 AM   #68
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Just so we're clear, there is such a thing as Christian terrorism. It is just FAR less common, in MUCH smaller scale when it does happen, and FAR better policed than Islamic terrorism.

Lots of white-supremicists groups, historically the KKK, but now many smaller groups commit terrorism and maintain strong Christian-based identities.

Several Christian groups, like Army of God, have committed abortion-related terrorism, the most notable of which was Eric Rudolph's Olympic Park bombing, killing two and injuring 111. (Acts of this scale are so common in Islamic terrorism that they really aren't even very newsworthy any more, at least when they happen outside the west)

The Hutaree were found making advanced IED's (Explosively Formed Penetrators, specifically, for taking out armored vehicles)- not exactly something you use for self-defense, although they never actually committed any terrorist acts.

Overseas there is still far more pronounced Christain terrorism, like the burning of children as witchs in Africa as well as conflicts in Bosnia, not to mention the recent Catholics vs. Protestents in Ireland.
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      09-10-2010, 12:32 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by carve View Post
It sure doesn't look that way from the outside. Off the top of my head, we see Islamic-inspired beheadings (on a regular basis for a while), shia and sunni slaughtering each other, sudanese genocide of Christians, the vast majority of hijackings, flying planes full of civilians into buildings, blowing up trains, sendinging kids and teens on suicide missions to kill civilians in palestine and then bragging about it, extreme lack of freedom under sharia, treatment of women as property with even more extreme limitations on their rights, barbaric punishment methods even for trivial crimes, constant threats of genocide of the jews from Islamic states (often accompanied with great respect for Hitler's attempt), retentention of Muslims through extreme threats should they become apostate, violent protests against ridiculously minor things, like a cartoon, and killing of people critical to Islam (Theo Van Gogh), Ayan Hirsi Ali having to live with the protection of bodyguards due to her criticism, we see terrorists brutally slaughtering hundreds of innocent, defenseless children in a Russian school etc.

Despite all this, most Muslims are peaceful. But a disproportionately huge number aren't, and it causes a lot of problems. What has Islam done to promote peace? What has Islam done to contribute to the modern world? What has Islam even done to earn respect, rather than contempt? If you want Islam to be respected as a religion of peace, and as compatible with the modern world, police your own and clean up your own house. DEMONSTRATE it is a religion of peace- don't just keep saying it. The proof is in the pudding.



Are you kidding me? The Koran clearly says to cut the hand off of thiefs.

I believe the stoning of adulterers is from the Haddith (edit- just looked it up. Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 82), and as a continuition of the traditions taken from the bible. They're following it the RIGHT way, which is what makes it so scary. The bible says to stone adulterers, too, but Jews and Christians have outgrown that disgusting practice.

I'd love to see you go to a Muslim theocracy and tell them Sharia is wrong
All I can say is my opinion of these matters are already stated. Let's just agree to disagree. I feel that you still keep saying "Islam should do this", "Islam should do that" etc. and I cannot make you understand Islam is just a religion. It does not think/feel/act for itself.

I think muslims should promote it in the best possible ways, however, you cannot say Islam is at fault for not defending itself. At the end of the day we are all smart enough to know that just because a minority of the population of 1.5bn muslims are involved in terrorism that has NO REFELECTION on the religion itself.

For example, small minorities within US and UK armed forces have been known to abuse their powers and do disgusting things yet it would be unfair to let this affect the image of the rest of the forces. I know you are trying to say that terrorism is a huge problem but it is still a MINORITY population of muslims. Also it doesnt matter how big the problem is because the religion is there to follow. If people abuse it you cannot associate them with Islam and then blame the teachings of the religion.

The funny thing is you admitted this. You admitted that MOST muslims do not do any of these things. However, you then totally missed the point when you asked what does Islam do? I have answered this above. Also, the reason why Islam gets such a bad name is because of the media. All you ever hear is "Islamic terrorist" this and that. When do you ever see the media showing normal daily routines of the 1.5bn strong muslim population across the world? NEVER. We do have TV channels and write books and hold events, but this is not in the front of peoples minds because they dont even know. They only know what they hear in the media.

Also, one final point. So many things that happen have absolutely nothing to do with Islam. Muslims fighting amongst eachother has nothing to do with any sort of teaching in Islam. Actually, in Islam it is forbidden for muslims to fall out and stop talking for longer than 3 days never mind mind VIOLENCE against eachother or other people in general. Muslims have civil wars just like any other religion or people. Even in the west people fight amongst eachother, catholics/protestants etc. It has nothing to do with teachings of religion. It has everything to do with human weakness that we resort to violence when we disagree.
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      09-10-2010, 12:55 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
All I can say is my opinion of these matters are already stated. Let's just agree to disagree. I feel that you still keep saying "Islam should do this", "Islam should do that" etc. and I cannot make you understand Islam is just a religion. It does not think/feel/act for itself.
Agree to disagree? Tell me: what is the punishment for Apostacy as instructed by the Koran?

Islam is a group of people with common beliefs and practices. That's like saying you can't suggest a certain country, or company, can't take actions.

Quote:
I think muslims should promote it in the best possible ways, however, you cannot say Islam is at fault for not defending itself. At the end of the day we are all smart enough to know that just because a minority of the population of 1.5bn muslims are involved in terrorism that has NO REFELECTION on the religion itself.
According to you, I can't say Islam can be at fault for anything since it is not a person. Islam does not NEED to defend itself from cartoon or burning books, and it should not defend itself by killing innocent people, including children, apostates, or those who've commited non-lethal crimes. Whether you like it or not, this DOES reflect on Islam, and quite poorly.

Quote:
For example, small minorities within US and UK armed forces have been known to abuse their powers and do disgusting things yet it would be unfair to let this affect the image of the rest of the forces. I know you are trying to say that terrorism is a huge problem but it is still a MINORITY population of muslims. Also it doesnt matter how big the problem is because the religion is there to follow. If people abuse it you cannot associate them with Islam and then blame the teachings of the religion.
When a military member does something bad, they get into serious trouble. The military polices it's own.

I've repeatedly agreed that the problem-people in Islam is a minority, so stop bringing it up as though we disagree. My problem is
1) This minority of 1.5B people is a LOT of people
2) The rest of them don't do much to control or subdue this minority
3) Their actions are justifiable under the Koran, and they believe the Koran is the word of Allah

Quote:
Also, the reason why Islam gets such a bad name is because of the media. All you ever hear is "Islamic terrorist" this and that. When do you ever see the media showing normal daily routines of the 1.5bn strong muslim population across the world? NEVER. We do have TV channels and write books and hold events, but this is not in the front of peoples minds because they dont even know. They only know what they hear in the media.
The media is responsible for 9/11, Sunni/Shia conflict, suicide bombers, and sharia brutality? Wow- I had no idea. Reporting something =/= causing something. The news didn't report how I spent my evening last night, but I'm sure they'd report on me if I did a suicide bombing.

Quote:
Also, one final point. So many things that happen have absolutely nothing to do with Islam. Muslims fighting amongst eachother has nothing to do with any sort of teaching in Islam. Actually, in Islam it is forbidden for muslims to fall out and stop talking for longer than 3 days never mind mind VIOLENCE against eachother or other people in general. Muslims have civil wars just like any other religion or people. Even in the west people fight amongst eachother, catholics/protestants etc. It has nothing to do with teachings of religion. It has everything to do with human weakness that we resort to violence when we disagree.
Muslims fighting each other has EVERYTHING to do with Islam- what aught to have been a minor dispute on who was to fill Mohommad's shoes after he died. 1400 years later, primitives are still killing each other over this ridiculous disagreement about a magic man.

So...please tell me...
1) What is the punishment for apostacy in the Koran?
2) Why do you believe Mohommad actually talked to Allah in the cave?

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      09-10-2010, 09:15 PM   #71
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Pastor in Florida is late to the party. YouTube had plenty of flaming Korans long before this guy got in the game. "If you ain't first, you're last."

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      09-11-2010, 12:27 AM   #72
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Let me paste that into google translate. I bet the people that are talking bad about Islam have NEVER been to a Masjid/Mosque, Never had a muslim friend, never been to a Muslim country and probably doesnt live in a big city.
Nothing personal, but God I'm sick of looking at the annoying advertisement or whatever it is, at the bottom of every one of your posts. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

..and to stay on topic - I still think the pastor in Florida is brain damaged.

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      09-11-2010, 10:40 AM   #73
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So, the president of Indonesia, the worlds most populous Muslim country, has said that burning these Korans would be "A threat to world peace".

Muslims: why is that? Burning bibles wouldn't be a threat to world peace, even though Christians would be offended. Why is burning the Koran different? It seems like burning the symbol of "the religion of peace" should be less worrisome than burning the bible, no?

The answer is obvious: Islam is not a religion of peace to an enormous number of it's followers, and the religion has warped the minds of enough people where violence is likely to erupt over this non-issue. Burning Korans that YOU own- something that doesn't hurt anyone, but merely offends, would be met with savage violence, and prominent Muslims know and warn it'll be met with violence. Why is that, Muslims?


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      09-11-2010, 10:52 AM   #74
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Someone should film themselves burning a 100 Qurans followed by burning a 100 Bibles. Maybe even take a piss on both of 'em before they light 'em up. Just wait and see the reaction. This would be the perfect social experiment to prove a point about the extremist in one religion vs. another.
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      09-11-2010, 08:10 PM   #75
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A column by Kevin Leininger
of The News-Sentinel

Quote:
Let's be clear: A Florida church's plan to burn Qurans today in commemoration of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorists attacks was stupid, provocative, un-American and, ultimately, unchristian.

Gen. David Petraeus was probably right this week when he warned that such things could inflame Islamic passions and get Americans killed. The same could be said for this week's equally stupid – not to mention criminal – torching of a new mosque in Tennessee.

On the other hand, the supposedly benign Islamic center two blocks from where 3,000 people died in the name of jihad is provocative, too. The same could be said for tax-funded “art” of a crucifix immersed in urine, a film about the “Last Temptation of Christ” and almost anything done by the ACLU. But nobody seems too concerned about inciting Christians to violence.

And for good reason: With the exception of a few wing nuts, Christians don't respond to blasphemy with violence, or even threats. When a Danish newspaper published a few unflattering cartoons of the prophet Muhammad in 2005, on the other hand, more than 100 people died in protests across the Muslim world.

I'll let the historians and theologians debate why that should be. Certainly Christianity had its militant phase, but the religion also teaches believers to “turn the other cheek,” while Islam recognizes no separation between church and state. But I do know this: If Americans think they can stop terrorism simply by demonstrating more sensitivity toward Islam, they are fooling only themselves – and in the process surrendering in a global cultural war that threatens the very freedoms they take for granted.

The debate over the so-called “ground zero mosque” is but one example. There are good arguments on both sides, with supporters claiming the undeniable legal right to build and opponents expressing the equally undeniable point that Muslims truly wanting to “build bridges” would be more sensitive to the still-fresh wounds inflicted in the name of Islam nine years ago.

And yet it is the mosque's opponents who are being lectured about the need for religious sensitivity and what failure of the project could do to interfaith relations.

The genius of the West, and of America in particular, is that it makes room for all faiths or none, within the bounds of secular law and government. As a Christian, I wasn't pleased a few years ago when IPFW used tax dollars to present a play depicting Christ and his disciples as promiscuous homosexuals. But neither I nor anybody else cut off heads or flew planes into buildings in response. I wrote a couple of columns; others filed lawsuits or picketed outside the theater.

When Newsweek erroneously reported guards at Guantanamo Bay were burning Qurans five years ago, 15 people died in Afghanistan – the same place people were chanting “death to America” this week in response to the Florida church's publicity stunt.

But the fact that many Muslims respond to provocation with violence should not shield the religion from criticism or scrutiny back home. To suggest that the motives and teachings of the people promoting the New York mosque should be immune from investigation is to claim a privilege that does not and should not exist in a free society.

Unfortunately, freedom is often abused. Christians have been the victims of that abuse as well as the perpetrators of it. But if simple decency is not enough to prevent burning of the Quran or a mosque, that still does not justify the kind of response Petraeus fears. If Islam really is to be considered the “religion of peace” its followers insist it is, those struggling for its heart and soul must be willing to bear a few insults along the way – and to let the law do its job when those insults cross the line into illegality.

But as we reflect on the terrible events that took place nine years ago today, it's important to remember that America, not Islam, was the target of an unprovoked attack. It would be unfair to blame an entire religion for the actions of a few criminal zealots, but it would be even more unfair to ignore the fact that, despite a few acts of boorishness, individual Americans have responded with the kind of tolerance, restraint and grace under fire that remains far too rare in certain parts of the world.
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      09-11-2010, 08:42 PM   #76
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something just occurred to me.

So many people in this forum and this country say to not judge Islam by the actions of a few "extremists". Yet in Afghanistan, thousands are chanting "death to America" and muslims world wide are up in arms ready to completely blame ALL Americans for the actions of one, single, person.

To quote one of you "so much hate"
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      09-12-2010, 01:41 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
something just occurred to me.

So many people in this forum and this country say to not judge Islam by the actions of a few "extremists". Yet in Afghanistan, thousands are chanting "death to America" and muslims world wide are up in arms ready to completely blame ALL Americans for the actions of one, single, person.

To quote one of you "so much hate"

So you want to compare yourself to people with no education? Try comparing with a muslim country thats not on the very bottom of civilization.
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      09-12-2010, 01:51 AM   #78
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Quote:
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So you want to compare yourself to people with no education? Try comparing with a muslim country thats not on the very bottom of civilization.
Such as?

And we don't need to find a "muslim country that isn't at the bottom of civilization" because there are A LOT of muslims in those kinds of countries. So clearly a lot of them are going to blame all Americans for the actions of ONE, but we shouldn't hold Islam in low regard because of the actions of thousands and/or millions.....



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      09-12-2010, 02:24 AM   #79
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I hate radicals, as much as i hate religion.
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      09-12-2010, 03:48 AM   #80
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lulz In iran, they pay poor people or use prisoners to go to ahmadinejads rallies and the anti american rallies.
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      09-12-2010, 03:54 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
something just occurred to me.

So many people in this forum and this country say to not judge Islam by the actions of a few "extremists". Yet in Afghanistan, thousands are chanting "death to America" and muslims world wide are up in arms ready to completely blame ALL Americans for the actions of one, single, person.

To quote one of you "so much hate"
i think everyone around the world is ready to blame the US.
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      09-12-2010, 11:37 AM   #82
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So you want to compare yourself to people with no education? Try comparing with a muslim country thats not on the very bottom of civilization.
Hold on- many Afghan Muslims have extensive educations...in Madrasas where the memorize the Koran all day. They believe that's all they really need to know. If the book really was written by God, it probably would be. How's that working out for them? If that's the basis of their knowledge, and Islam is a peaceful religion as is constantly claimed, Afghanistan should be pretty peaceful, no?
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      09-12-2010, 02:40 PM   #83
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Hold on- many Afghan Muslims have extensive educations...in Madrasas where the memorize the Koran all day. They believe that's all they really need to know. If the book really was written by God, it probably would be. How's that working out for them? If that's the basis of their knowledge, and Islam is a peaceful religion as is constantly claimed, Afghanistan should be pretty peaceful, no?

Yes they have education in their religion but they are being taught something different from other muslims. They can memorize the Quran but its in Arabic so they have no clue what they are reading.

Their understanding of Islam is what their teacher tells them. Those teachers are pretty much brainwashing people with their own view of Islam. Probably similar to how that Pastor in Florida probably preaches about hate. This whole jihadic view of Islam was probably created to fight the Russians in Afghanistan or Israel. They used religion to fight a war... Now there are some that are again using religion to fight. Its much easier to persuade people to fight in a war when you use religion plus you get fighters from all over the globe.

Now if we keep up this BS hate in the U.S. and talk about burning Qurans etc, this is all just fueling those jihadic views overseas and eventually planting seeds for some that are in the U.S. watching those jihad videos online (youtube etc). On top of that, if this NYC Mosque isn't built, they will also use it as propaganda in every way possible.

Is Islam a peaceful religion? Yes because majority of muslims are not on a jihad to kill non believers.

Since you probably only heard about Afghanistan after 9/11 like MOST Americans. The problem in Afghanistan is not religious, its ethnic divide.
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      09-12-2010, 10:36 PM   #84
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Quote:
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Is Islam a peaceful religion? Yes because majority of muslims are not on a jihad to kill non believers.
I disagree. Whether Islam is a peaceful religion should be evaluated based on how it's members, on average, compare to the members of other religions. Possibly even how Muslims, on average, compare to someone who is actually peaceful...non-violent.

Lets say a close minority...45%...where on a violent Jihad to kill non believers. Would it be a peaceful religion then? A majority would still not be on a violent Jihad, and that's your criteria, no? How about 30%? All these numbers are just arbitrary. If you rate the ENTIRE religion just based on the majority, you could justify and rationalize an awful lot. Just compare Islam to it's peer religions, and it's claimed ideals.

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      09-13-2010, 12:32 AM   #85
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I disagree. Whether Islam is a peaceful religion should be evaluated based on how it's members, on average, compare to the members of other religions. Possibly even how Muslims, on average, compare to someone who is actually peaceful...non-violent.

Lets say a close minority...45%...where on a violent Jihad to kill non believers. Would it be a peaceful religion then? A majority would still not be on a violent Jihad, and that's your criteria, no? How about 30%? All these numbers are just arbitrary. If you rate the ENTIRE religion just based on the majority, you could justify and rationalize an awful lot. Just compare Islam to it's peer religions, and it's claimed ideals.

The muslims that are violent are usually from war ravaged countries or from places with little to no education, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan etc They are just like rednecks from the south, just plain stupid...

What I dont understand is why these Jihadi's or violent muslims are not attacking Asian countries? China, Japan, Korea etc????
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      09-13-2010, 10:05 AM   #86
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War ravaged countries? From the religion of peace?

You know, the real useful thing about religion is it's ability to control people. I think it's all fairy tales, but if you actually believe it it can be a powerful motivator in your life. I think some drug addicts, criminals, etc. can really benefit from religion.

However, in Islam this power to control seems to be used quite often to foster warfare and violence. Shouldn't the religion of peace foster...I don't know...PEACE, even in areas where the people are uneducated and poor? The afterlife rewards of Martyrdom are a powerful motivator for such people. Why would the religion of peace offer such rewards rather than, say, afterlife rewards for peacemakers? Because it is not a religion of peace.

Keep in mind that the Afghans consider Al Queda foreigners, and many of it's leaders and high-level operatives (e.g. 9/11 hijackers) were actually quite well educated.
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      09-13-2010, 02:18 PM   #87
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War ravaged countries? From the religion of peace?

You know, the real useful thing about religion is it's ability to control people. I think it's all fairy tales, but if you actually believe it it can be a powerful motivator in your life. I think some drug addicts, criminals, etc. can really benefit from religion.

However, in Islam this power to control seems to be used quite often to foster warfare and violence. Shouldn't the religion of peace foster...I don't know...PEACE, even in areas where the people are uneducated and poor? The afterlife rewards of Martyrdom are a powerful motivator for such people. Why would the religion of peace offer such rewards rather than, say, afterlife rewards for peacemakers? Because it is not a religion of peace.

Keep in mind that the Afghans consider Al Queda foreigners, and many of it's leaders and high-level operatives (e.g. 9/11 hijackers) were actually quite well educated.

I believe religion was created to keep people in check and provide guidance. I agree with you, criminals etc can really benefit from religion.

I'll repeat myself again, how do you expect a religion of peace (islam) to foster it, if the believers cannot understand/read the book and most of their knowledge of the religion is based off what someone tells them. If you goto Pastor Terry Jones church I'm sure he'll be preaching about hating muslims, burning Qurans etc, I dont think that follows Christianity does it? And this is why education is important, because if you dont have one your more easily persuaded and cant think outside the box.

I call myself a muslim even though I've never opened a Quran before. Its easy to see that the Quran was written a long time ago and has NOT been edited, unlike other holy books. Its safe to assume that the book was written during a time when all religions were at war, this is probably why you see the Jihadic and Martyrdom verses in the Quran. They were probably written to preserve the religion and expand? I guess I have this view because I have some education to much such a connection. But from my understanding Quran speaks of Peaceful things such as praying 5 times a day, fasting, and not killing ANY living thing including ants, its even wrong to upset someone.

Yes of course Afghans consider Al Qaeda as foreigners, Afghans are not Arab. Ya, I believe you that the 9/11 attackers were educated but they are a minority. Most that are fighting in the Jihad against all are uneducated.
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      09-13-2010, 04:43 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by carve
Agree to disagree? Tell me: what is the punishment for Apostacy as instructed by the Koran?

Islam is a group of people with common beliefs and practices. That's like saying you can't suggest a certain country, or company, can't take actions.
I know what you are trying to do. You want to take things out of context and try paint Islam as a religion of zero tolerance and harsh punishments, old-fashioned in thinking etc.

To understand the Quran you must read the whole book and read about the life of our holy prophet which explains the teachings of the Quran. In the life of our prophet I cannot emphasize enough about his teachings of justice, peace, patience etc.

It would literally take days to show everything. Our prophets teachings tell us to be kind and patient to our parents, orphans, poor people, the dead, neighbours, even animals as small as ants. Our prophet and the teachings of the Quran tell us that Allah is not pleased with people who have hot tempers and act aggressively. Infact Islam tells us to not even speak if we do not have a good word to say.

Therefore, it is illogical to show small parts of the religion out of context and show it to be violent and hateful etc. I do not deny that Islam has played parts in wars through history just like any other religion or country or people. However, you must study history to see why those wars took place, Islam defended itself. Our religion teaches us clearly you cannot spread the word of Islam by FORCING it on others. Infact, in history our prophet even make peace agreements so that muslims and jews could live side by side.

Also, one thing I do admit is that Islam does have punishments. Listen, as I have explained before NOOONE can impose the meaning of "right" and "wrong" on ANYONE. What gives anyone the right to say this is right or wrong? You cannot even speak of international laws, treaties or human rights because these things change all the time through history. We dont even share the same values as our grandparents because we think they are too old fashioned. Every country has different laws too and that causes conflict.

As I explained before many countries still believe in capital punishment and other punishments. Dont try paint a picture as if it is something old fashioned and Islam is wrong for having this. In addition to this you say Islam punishes for trivial things. I know you are talking about drinking, stealing, sex outside marriage etc. and as I have explained before you may think these things are right but that is just YOUR opinion. That doesnt mean Islam is barbaric just because you think it is.

Instead, I say the way the world is today is because there are so many different laws across different lands and these laws change all the time. Not one country has had the same laws throughout time because they change their opinion all the time. Islam created a set of universal laws about how to live our lives so that everyone lives to the same standard and is afforded the same rights and protections til the end of time. Is that really such a bad thing?

Look at the problems you have now with drugs, alcohol, rape, murder, theft, fraud, gambling, overcrowded jails. These are all problems that Islam deals with and in modern times the TAXPAYER has to pay for these problems and society in general when innocent people are victim to such horrendous crimes. I know for a FACT theft would reduce if you knew you had a risk of having your hands chopped off. (As always, there are certain conditions for all punishments such as witnesses and proof etc.)

Quote:
According to you, I can't say Islam can be at fault for anything since it is not a person. Islam does not NEED to defend itself from cartoon or burning books, and it should not defend itself by killing innocent people, including children, apostates, or those who've commited non-lethal crimes. Whether you like it or not, this DOES reflect on Islam, and quite poorly.
That is exactly what I'm saying. You are still yet without simple understanding that Islam is a religion. Above I quoted you are saying Islam is a people. Can you really understand what you are saying? Islam is a religion. Muslim is the name assigned to the people who follow the religion. While Muslims may be at fault for what they do, that does not mean they were influenced by the religion to commit terrible acts of murder.

Can't you see that these people are committing acts of terror because there are conflicts across the world in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine etc.? I'm NOT justifying what they are doing because I think it is TOTALLY WRONG but I'm telling you that is why they kill people. To make a point that there is conflict in the world and they feel oppressed. Noone decided to blow themselves up without reason. They are doing it because they feel it is the best way to get their point across (as you hear in their speeches they are doing it because of Iraq etc.) and then they try to manipulate the meaning of the Quran to justify what they do. That has NO reflection on the religion. This is not about Islam but rather about human conflict and people trying to hide behind Islam.

Quote:
I've repeatedly agreed that the problem-people in Islam is a minority, so stop bringing it up as though we disagree. My problem is
1) This minority of 1.5B people is a LOT of people
2) The rest of them don't do much to control or subdue this minority
3) Their actions are justifiable under the Koran, and they believe the Koran is the word of Allah
That still does not fault Islam. I agree there is a problem, but the problem is not Islam. The problem is hugely political and comes down to a age old problem of people fighting over lands and laws. Those Muslims blowing themselves up want Palestine to be free from trouble with Israel, want troops out of Iraq/Afghanistan and want to practise their law freely without people telling them they cannot wear the hijab or build a mosque in a certain place. I am not agreeing/disagreeing with these demands in this post but I am telling you that is why there are problems in the world.

These people then try to make a point and hide behind Islam. That does not mean Islam is the problem. Also is doesnt matter the size of the problem you still cannot link it to Islam.

For example, look at the mess with Iraq. That is one of the hugest problems in the world right now for so many reasons. However, the magnitude/size of the problem still does not justify blaming America or UK as countries. Just because Bush/Blair fucked up that has ZERO reflection on the people from that country. I know for a fact most people in these lands are peaceful and abide by basic human rights such as not killing innocent people. Therefore just because Bush/blair try to hide behind their countries as if they represent their countries you cannot blame them. You have to understand what the REAL problem is and who is REALLY to blame.

It's similar to blaming parents every time kids do wrong. Totally illogical. Most people understand this except you and a MINORITY of people thankfully.
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Last edited by hks786; 09-13-2010 at 05:00 PM.
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