BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
ESS Tuning
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-23-2007, 10:39 AM   #45
fugginfazt
Private
 
fugginfazt's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 325ia E34DinanM5
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Luis Obispo

Posts: 64
iTrader: (0)

Someone convince me otherwise:

E92 335 fully loaded 48K

E92 M3 base 60k

To get a 335 even close in performance:
procede 1500
suspension 2500
LSD 3500
lightweight interior and body panels 5500
Etc. Etc.

Seems to me your gonna spend that 15 to 20k difference just to catch up to the M3's
street capabilities, and you will still get spanked on the track
fugginfazt is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 10:50 AM   #46
sflgator
Major General
 
sflgator's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 MB C63 AMG & '08 MB GL450
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: U.S.

Posts: 5,389
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fugginfazt View Post
Someone convince me otherwise:

E92 335 fully loaded 48K

E92 M3 base 60k

To get a 335 even close in performance:
procede 1500
suspension 2500
LSD 3500
lightweight interior and body panels 5500
Etc. Etc.

Seems to me your gonna spend that 15 to 20k difference just to catch up to the M3's
street capabilities, and you will still get spanked on the track
1. PROcede is $1,300
2. Although an LSD would be very beneficial, I'm not totally convicned that it's absolutely necessary; however, I now know that a set of wider, stickier non-RFT tires is a must with a PROcede-equipped 335i (my set of 19" Michelin PS2s cost $1,262 from DiscountTireDirect.com) + balancing/mounting from a local tire shop.
3. Some suspension mods would help.

Again, I think a heavily modded 335i would surpass the performance of a stock '08 M3, but a lightly modded 335i (like w/ PROcede and a good set of non-RFT tires) will also be very close to the M3 performance wise. Most ppl in this category will not be at the track every weekend, so a slightly modded 335i that hangs with an M3 at least from 0-100mph for $15k-$20k less is a very acceptable choice.
__________________

|2009 RENNtech MB C63 AMG | Black/Black Leather/Black Maple | Premium II | MultiMedia | iPod |
| TeleAid | Charcoal Filter Delete | BMC High-Flow Air Filters | High-Flow Secondary Cats | Clear Side Markers |
sflgator is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 11:15 AM   #47
AndreyATC
The Rocket
 
AndreyATC's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 X6M
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Near NYC

Posts: 1,512
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
How about overheating on the track
Is 335 going to stand abuse?
It kinda sucks to get into limp mode in the middle of the race
__________________

2012 X6M AW/Silverstone II Full Leather/Driver Assistance/HUD/Active ventilated seat/Rear Climate/Cold Weather/Premium Sound/BMW Apps/Soft Close/Side-top-rear Cams/Comfort Seats/3 Seats/Keyless
AndreyATC is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 11:20 AM   #48
teknochild
Your resident 4um troll
 
teknochild's Avatar
 
Drives: 335 coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: fl

Posts: 2,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
1. PROcede is $1,300
2. Although an LSD would be very beneficial, I'm not totally convicned that it's absolutely necessary
for fugg

1 you dont know the m3 will only be 60k base

2 if your going to compare them dont compare fully loaded to bare, compare fully loaded to fully loaded

for sf

if you want to have even a chance of beating an m3 on a track and lsd is absolute



counter a 0-60 4.5 sec? who the hell cares about that?

its almost always going to be more expensive to mod a comparable car to be faser than a more expensive one (i dont meen civic vs 335 thats not comaprable) its cheaper for BMW to do it then you

even a fully modded 335 with every thing you can put in it is not going to compare to the new M3, say otherwise and your just dreaming; maybe if you could swap the turbos and run even more boost but then you really risk blowing your engine and a whole new set of mods would be required




also theres no way youll be able to defeat that beautiful high revving v8 sound ::cums::
__________________
RAWRrrrr
teknochild is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 11:22 AM   #49
BigDog
Captain
 
Drives: E90 and E65
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chicago

Posts: 726
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFS13 View Post
If that's the case then BMW would sell 1/3 of the M3's they sell annually.
lease is the magic word
BigDog is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 11:25 AM   #50
enwhykiid
Captain
 
enwhykiid's Avatar
 
Drives: '06 titanium 330XI
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York

Posts: 822
iTrader: (0)

the gtr doesnt look so bad now does it?
__________________
enwhykiid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 12:28 PM   #51
stressdoc
Moderator
 
stressdoc's Avatar
 
Drives: 335 E90 ZSP+
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MO

Posts: 9,440
iTrader: (0)

Usually no ED discount for M3 -- that is a deal killer for me.
For me the comparison is:
36k E90 335 ED
2k Bilstein coilovers installed
2k M wheels and PS2s
1.3k PROcede
2k Quaife LSD installed
.2k interior M parts
.5k sway bars, bushings
________
44k total

If I could get an E90 M3 for under 50k that would be a better option for me. But without the 5k or so discount below USA MSRP that you can get with ED and a bargain price (invoice + 1k), that does not seem likely.
__________________
My not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829
Quaife, BMW Perf & M3 suspension, V5, M-sport, ...
Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
stressdoc is offline   Dominica
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 12:39 PM   #52
musc
Banned
 
musc's Avatar
 
Drives: 335is 7-Spd DCT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charleston, SC

Posts: 1,181
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 E46 M3  [0.00]
Easiest way is just buy both. 335i for daily driver and M3 for weekends.
__________________
04 E46 M3 | SMGII | OEM CSL 19s | D/A Race Software | OEM CSL Header | Dixis TI | Streamline Drop in filter |
11 E92 335is | DCT | JB4 G5 ISO | BMS/BB Backend Flash | BMS DCI | BMS CP | Walbro GSL392 | E55-60 |
musc is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 01:10 PM   #53
sflgator
Major General
 
sflgator's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 MB C63 AMG & '08 MB GL450
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: U.S.

Posts: 5,389
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by teknochild View Post
for fugg

1 you dont know the m3 will only be 60k base

2 if your going to compare them dont compare fully loaded to bare, compare fully loaded to fully loaded
My "almost" fully loaded 335i had an MSRP of $53k (and that includes the ss pedals and window tint I made my dealer throw in at n/c ) and I got it for $49,500. So far, some ppl expect a somewhat fully loaded '03 M3 to have an MSRP ~ $70k which is $17k more than my 335i. Also, most ppl agree that the new M3 will not be discounted at least for the first MY of 2008; so, then you have to figure that a similarly-equipped M3 will end up being > $20k more than a 335i.
__________________

|2009 RENNtech MB C63 AMG | Black/Black Leather/Black Maple | Premium II | MultiMedia | iPod |
| TeleAid | Charcoal Filter Delete | BMC High-Flow Air Filters | High-Flow Secondary Cats | Clear Side Markers |
sflgator is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 01:15 PM   #54
SkipSauls
First Lieutenant
 
SkipSauls's Avatar
 
Drives: E70 X5 35d
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Longmont, CO

Posts: 354
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
If by "weekends" you mean "at the track", then it would be far better to get a real track car, or still better a real race car, than an M3. The M3 is going to get beat up on the track, you'll be in mod-hell trying to make it into a "real" track car (don't kid yourself into thinking that any M-car is a real track car out-of-the-box), and you'll be limited to doing things like DEs where street cars are okay.

If the guesses of a $20k difference between a 335i and a M3 are correct, you could get a very good SCCA or NASA legal race car and run several events, including tires, fuel, repairs, etc. Get a Spec Miata for anywhere from $5k to $15k for a nice one, get your SCCA license, and go racing! I can assure you it's a hell of a lot more fun than DEs, open track days, canyon blasting, or drag racing. I went through the progression and ended up competing in the SPEED World Challenge last year, and my only regret is that I didn't get into racing a long, long time ago!

"Better a racer for a day than a spectator for life"

Now an M3 for the week and a racecar for the weekend would also be nice, although I'd bet on the 335i being a nicer car on the street and would rather use the $20k or so on racing.
SkipSauls is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 01:33 PM   #55
stressdoc
Moderator
 
stressdoc's Avatar
 
Drives: 335 E90 ZSP+
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MO

Posts: 9,440
iTrader: (0)

I could be wrong here, but it looks to me like the real performance car from BMW will be the Z2 M. The reported weight for that is around 2000 lbs. With a 274 bhp FI 4cyl or the N54 it will be amazing, especially at USA (no autobahn) speeds.
__________________
My not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829
Quaife, BMW Perf & M3 suspension, V5, M-sport, ...
Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
stressdoc is offline   Dominica
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 01:46 PM   #56
FirstClass
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 328xi
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 3,199
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
1. PROcede is $1,300
2. Although an LSD would be very beneficial, I'm not totally convicned that it's absolutely necessary; however, I now know that a set of wider, stickier non-RFT tires is a must with a PROcede-equipped 335i (my set of 19" Michelin PS2s cost $1,262 from DiscountTireDirect.com) + balancing/mounting from a local tire shop.
3. Some suspension mods would help.
1) True.
2) Only using 1/2 of your avaible traction for acceleration 4tl. You won't be able to take a stock M3 no matter how much HP you have on a dyno if you can't put it to pavement.
3) Some suspension mods would help? Are you kidding me? If previous M3s are any indication you're going to need to do a crapload of suspension mods to even come close to the M3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
I could be wrong here, but it looks to me like the real performance car from BMW will be the Z2 M. The reported weight for that is around 2000 lbs. With a 274 bhp FI 4cyl or the N54 it will be amazing, especially at USA (no autobahn) speeds.
I love the idea of that engine (wish Lotus had used it or a similar BMW design in the Elise) but you're about 1000 pounds light on that weight estimate. I seriously doubt that the M2 will drop 1000 pounds from the 120.
__________________
328xi Coupe, Montego Blue on Black with Alum, Step, Sport, Premium, CA, PDC, Cold Weather (Damn Pennsylvania winters)
Current Mods: Heavy right foot - Planned Mods: Lightweight right foot

Quote:
Originally Posted by jh valley View Post
shit, if i had that kind of money id buy a gtstreet for monday, an ascari a10 for tuesday, a DBS for wednesday and id just ride jessica alba the rest of the week.
FirstClass is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 01:52 PM   #57
berm3
Private First Class
 
Drives: BMW E92 335i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Jersey

Posts: 124
iTrader: (0)

The new M3 will be a cool car to have. It will probably cost around 70k, but what can you buy brand new for 70k that will be close to performance, besides corvette?
__________________
E92 335i
Alpine White/ Saddle Brown Leather/ Burl Walnut Trim/ Sport Package/Premium Package/ Cold Weather Package/ Auto with Paddle Shifters/ Nav/Comfort Access

Last edited by berm3; 03-23-2007 at 02:27 PM.
berm3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 01:56 PM   #58
scottp999
Brigadier General
 
scottp999's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - E92 - 6MT & 4runner SR5
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MD

Posts: 4,589
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335  [4.50]
Will have to trade up in a few years here. Will keep the 335 for a while.
__________________
Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, Procede Fueling Flash (via OpenFlash Tablet), PPS Methanol System (Devil's Own 12 GPH Nozzle/Aquamist Flow Sensor/Labonte VC25), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.
scottp999 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 02:20 PM   #59
SP330
Lieutenant
 
Drives: S Class
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: PA

Posts: 550
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fugginfazt View Post
Someone convince me otherwise:

E92 335 fully loaded 48K

E92 M3 base 60k

To get a 335 even close in performance:
procede 1500
suspension 2500
LSD 3500
lightweight interior and body panels 5500
Etc. Etc.

Seems to me your gonna spend that 15 to 20k difference just to catch up to the M3's
street capabilities, and you will still get spanked on the track
If you are so inclined to increase the already stellar performance of the 335i to match or exceed the M3's, it wouldn't be hard and certainly wouldn't cost that much money.

Forget lightweight panels. BMW introduced the N54 to save weight and fuel. You really think the V8 in the M3 will be light?

The only reasons (logically) to buy the new M3 would be:

1. styling
2. badge
3. to have everything come out of the box, albeit on the very heavy side

A properly modified 335i would yield a lower price, insurance premium, and fuel bill, all while equaling or surpassing the M3's performance in a less pretentious package. Sounds like a winner to me.
SP330 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 02:25 PM   #60
ArmyBimmerDude
Major General
 
ArmyBimmerDude's Avatar
 
Drives: Lola
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 5,503
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to ArmyBimmerDude Send a message via Yahoo to ArmyBimmerDude
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugginfazt View Post
Someone convince me otherwise:

E92 335 fully loaded 48K

E92 M3 base 60k

To get a 335 even close in performance:
procede 1500
suspension 2500
LSD 3500
lightweight interior and body panels 5500
Etc. Etc.

Seems to me your gonna spend that 15 to 20k difference just to catch up to the M3's
street capabilities, and you will still get spanked on the track
No no, keep going. I wanna know what "etc, etc" mods I will need to put on the car to EVER get to 20k. Oh and explain the "lightweight interior" while you're at it. Plz
__________________
2007 E92 Montego Blue 335i
ArmyBimmerDude is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 02:28 PM   #61
fugginfazt
Private
 
fugginfazt's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 325ia E34DinanM5
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Luis Obispo

Posts: 64
iTrader: (0)

[QUOTE=Forget lightweight panels. BMW introduced the N54 to save weight and fuel. You really think the V8 in the M3 will be light?

^ Yes, the new V8 is 30 lbs lighter than the S54
__________________

Last edited by fugginfazt; 03-23-2007 at 02:30 PM. Reason: misinfo.
fugginfazt is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 02:31 PM   #62
bronco
Colonel
 
bronco's Avatar
 
Drives: e92
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Atlanta

Posts: 2,103
iTrader: (0)

70K will get you into a brand spanking new Z06 and that is a real track car
__________________
SaaS - The world of tomorrow is already here...www.saaschronicles.com
bronco is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 02:31 PM   #63
ArmyBimmerDude
Major General
 
ArmyBimmerDude's Avatar
 
Drives: Lola
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 5,503
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to ArmyBimmerDude Send a message via Yahoo to ArmyBimmerDude
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP330 View Post
If you are so inclined to increase the already stellar performance of the 335i to match or exceed the M3's, it wouldn't be hard and certainly wouldn't cost that much money.

Forget lightweight panels. BMW introduced the N54 to save weight and fuel. You really think the V8 in the M3 will be light?

The only reasons (logically) to buy the new M3 would be:

1. styling
2. badge
3. to have everything come out of the box, albeit on the very heavy side

A properly modified 335i would yield a lower price, insurance premium, and fuel bill, all while equaling or surpassing the M3's performance in a less pretentious package. Sounds like a winner to me.

I agree with you completely. I mean suddenly everyone's trashing the 335's suspension like it's the same as a civic's. I want to hear exactly what UNBELIEVEABLE suspension mods the M3 has that it's so IMPOSSIBLE for the 335 to reach. Sway bars? Coilovers? Strut towers? Come on now, don't talk shit and not be able to back it up.
__________________
2007 E92 Montego Blue 335i
ArmyBimmerDude is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 02:41 PM   #64
Robert
Major General
 
Drives: 135i, current is350
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Socal

Posts: 6,869
iTrader: (1)

This thread is about the M3 and its performance. What I have seen is a lot of 335i owners justifying their purchase. No one cares. If you are happy with it then be merry it. It's in no one's business to talk about other people's finance either. Keep the thread on topic.

Does a 18-19 year old with no salary has a business driving a M3? Who cares. Are you going to say he's can't afford it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDog View Post
sure a person could be sitting on an oil well... there's LOTS of different cases...


but in general... a person with 70-100k salary has no business buying a M3
Robert is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 03:00 PM   #65
Plan B
Private First Class
 
Plan B's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 997S / 2007 CaymanS
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Neither here nor there

Posts: 166
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkipSauls View Post
If by "weekends" you mean "at the track", then it would be far better to get a real track car, or still better a real race car, than an M3. The M3 is going to get beat up on the track, you'll be in mod-hell trying to make it into a "real" track car (don't kid yourself into thinking that any M-car is a real track car out-of-the-box), and you'll be limited to doing things like DEs where street cars are okay.

If the guesses of a $20k difference between a 335i and a M3 are correct, you could get a very good SCCA or NASA legal race car and run several events, including tires, fuel, repairs, etc. Get a Spec Miata for anywhere from $5k to $15k for a nice one, get your SCCA license, and go racing! I can assure you it's a hell of a lot more fun than DEs, open track days, canyon blasting, or drag racing. I went through the progression and ended up competing in the SPEED World Challenge last year, and my only regret is that I didn't get into racing a long, long time ago!

"Better a racer for a day than a spectator for life"

Now an M3 for the week and a racecar for the weekend would also be nice, although I'd bet on the 335i being a nicer car on the street and would rather use the $20k or so on racing.
+1...didn't evo mag recently modded an e36 M3 to run less than 8min. at "The Ring"? I think they gutted the car, throw on a set of coilovers, brakes, and chip/tune...that was it.

These are halo cars. Few will ever see real track time…in its first round of ownership anyway. Fewer will ever be exploited to its intended potential.

Or, you can do what SkipSauls suggested…get a spec Miata for 5K…and have more fun that the bloke in the Porsche…and I HAVE a track ready 996. People just love bragging rights and bench-race on the internet I guess.
__________________

2008 Porsche 911 S 6MT [GT Silver/Cocoa extended leather/sport chrono/loaded]
2007 Porsche Cayman S 6MT [Black/Black extended leather/typical options] Daily Driver
Plan B is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2007, 05:22 PM   #66
scottp999
Brigadier General
 
scottp999's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - E92 - 6MT & 4runner SR5
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MD

Posts: 4,589
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbo View Post
This thread is about the M3 and its performance. What I have seen is a lot of 335i owners justifying their purchase. No one cares.
That's what this is for:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/index.php
__________________
Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, Procede Fueling Flash (via OpenFlash Tablet), PPS Methanol System (Devil's Own 12 GPH Nozzle/Aquamist Flow Sensor/Labonte VC25), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.
scottp999 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:08 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST