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      03-13-2007, 08:09 PM   #1
T Bone
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Talking M3 Performance Simulation on Cartest 2000

You guys should really try out the Cartest 2000 simulation software..... Awesome stuff.

I entered what I think the E92 M3 data will be like and conducted a simulation. I used the S85 V10 engine for the torque and HP curves and I used 420 hp / 310 foot pounds of torque and 3600 pound weight......

See the attached JPG for the data settings. I also adjusted the shift time for the manual to be 0.4 seconds (which is aggressive). I imagine the SMG / DSG will fair alot better.....

Anyone want to suggest where I should change the data? BTW, I tried 315 foot pounds of torque with no difference and I also tried 265 tires with no difference..... :mad:

The results were not too impressive (the trap speed looks very accurate given weight / power):

0-30 mph: 2.17 seconds
0-40 mph: 2.83 seconds
0-50 mph: 3.51 seconds
0-60 mph: 5.09 seconds
0-70 mph: 6.21 seconds
0-80 mph: 7.38 seconds
0-90 mph: 9.39 seconds
0-100 mph 11.34 seconds
Quarter Mile: 13.31 @ 108.77 mph
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      03-13-2007, 08:29 PM   #2
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i hope those numbers for 0-60 mph and 1/4 mile aren't right

if so, i'll take the 335 coupe w/ procede, exhaust, and lsd please
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      03-13-2007, 08:32 PM   #3
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I wonder what happens if you drop the weight to 3500 lbs and bump the power closer to what it will actually be... 445 hp and 325 ft-lbs, maybe?
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      03-13-2007, 08:39 PM   #4
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That's a great tool. Will give it a shot. I would also push the hp and torque numbers up since BMW is probably understating.
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      03-13-2007, 08:54 PM   #5
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Updated Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by normtrum View Post
That's a great tool. Will give it a shot. I would also push the hp and torque numbers up since BMW is probably understating.

I really don't think it will weigh any less than 3600 pounds. But for the sake of argument. I tried 430 hp / 320 foot pounds of torque although this is higher than another rumored number....

0-30 mph: 2.09 seconds
0-40 mph: 2.72 seconds
0-50 mph: 3.39 seconds
0-60 mph: 4.92 seconds
0-70 mph: 6.00 seconds
0-80 mph: 7.14 seconds
0-90 mph: 9.08 seconds
0-100 mph: 10.95 seconds

Quarter Mile: 13.14 seconds @ 110.17 mph (6MT)

I think the HP / Torque are higher than the real M3 and the weight less than the real M3. But through magazine reviewer abuse....this set of numbers look achievable for a M3.

The biggest variable in performance was shift time. I put it to an aggressive 0.4 seconds for the manual..... when I put this down to SMG3 territory of 0.065 seconds the numbers look like this:

0-30 mph: 2.09 seconds
0-40 mph: 2.72 seconds
0-50 mph: 3.39 seconds
0-60 mph: 4.60 seconds
0-70 mph: 5.67 seconds
0-80 mph: 6.81 seconds
0-90 mph: 8.42 seconds
0-100 mph: 10.30 seconds

Quarter Mile: 12.89 seconds @ 112.16 mph (SMG)


I would be waiting for the SMG / DSG
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      03-13-2007, 09:11 PM   #6
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If Autocar can get the E46 M3 to 60 in 4.8, I'm sure this one can do it in 4.4, considering the quoted 5.2 for the E46.
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      03-13-2007, 09:11 PM   #7
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How does a similar power/weight ratio M5 w/SMG go 12.2 @ 118? The 6-speed went 12.6 @ 114.
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      03-13-2007, 09:36 PM   #8
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Fun but a bit BS

OK fun software but a bit of BS. This car is definitely going to do 0-60 in the low 4's with SMG or DSG. Maybe that fast with 6MT but should be a few tenths slower. Gearing is a major factor and there is no way you will be able to guess their ratios.

Here is the real question, if you plug in actual known data for a few cars such as 911, Z06, F430, E60 M5, etc. How close can you get to best/worst published performance times. I won't be impressed until I saw some success with known vehicles.
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      03-13-2007, 09:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
How does a similar power/weight ratio M5 w/SMG go 12.2 @ 118? The 6-speed went 12.6 @ 114.

There is a M6 profile on this software and after adjusting for SMG shift speeds, it was roughly the same as found in the mags (slightly slower than the mag).

One of the short comings of this software is it doesn't allow for wheelspin..... So I would attribute the difference between the software and R&T for the M6 to wheel spin.

No doubt wheelspin will allow for faster 0-60 times for the M3.....I agree with the poster above of getting 4.4-4.5 seconds but the most accurate piece of data is the trapspeed....this gives the true power of the car.
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      03-13-2007, 09:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
OK fun software but a bit of BS. This car is definitely going to do 0-60 in the low 4's with SMG or DSG. Maybe that fast with 6MT but should be a few tenths slower. Gearing is a major factor and there is no way you will be able to guess their ratios.

Here is the real question, if you plug in actual known data for a few cars such as 911, Z06, F430, E60 M5, etc. How close can you get to best/worst published performance times. I won't be impressed until I saw some success with known vehicles.
Hey this is fun....so here are some runs (absolutely no adjustments to SW)

Corvette Z06 LS7

0-30 mph: 1.75
0-40 mph: 2.29
0-50 mph: 2.82
0-60 mph: 3.46
0-70 mph: 5.04
0-80 mph: 5.91
0-90 mph: 7.62
0-100 mph: 8.82

Quartermile: 12.10 seconds at 119.85 mph


Ferrari F430 F1

0-30 mph: 1.53
0-40 mph: 2.02
0-50 mph: 2.66
0-60 mph: 3.54
0-70 mph: 4.37
0-80 mph: 5.45
0-90 mph: 6.50
0-100 mph: 7.67

Quartermile: 11.63 seconds at 123.49 mph


BMW M6 (with SMG shift time adjustment in SW)

0-30 mph: 1.69
0-40 mph: 2.21
0-50 mph: 3.18
0-60 mph: 4.23
0-70 mph: 5.40
0-80 mph: 6.52
0-90 mph: 7.76
0-100 mph: 9.44

Quartermile: 12.44 seconds at 115.92 mph
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      03-13-2007, 10:09 PM   #11
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Mabye the E92 M3 has 7 gears. That might change it around a little. Notice on the E92 M3 that was brought to Geneva, there was no numbers on the shifter.
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      03-13-2007, 11:06 PM   #12
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I'd say 3600 lbs is pretty accurate if you include the weight of the driver, since I doubt remote control will be one of the features that BMW introduces on the E92 M3. However, we could start that rumor. I know one thing, it's gonna be faster than the 335 or they will have trouble selling them, M3 badge or not. A 0-60 time of 5.09 ain't gonna cut it in the sales department.
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      03-14-2007, 01:25 AM   #13
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I'm surprised no one has said anything about the launch rpm. 2,000 rpm is way too low for such a high-revving/low torque car. Try raising it.
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      03-14-2007, 07:37 AM   #14
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Also, is the redline of 8250 accurate...i suspect more like 9000
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      03-14-2007, 08:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewKo View Post
Also, is the redline of 8250 accurate...i suspect more like 9000
9000...
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      03-14-2007, 10:23 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trancemaster View Post
I'm surprised no one has said anything about the launch rpm. 2,000 rpm is way too low for such a high-revving/low torque car. Try raising it.

Launch is not the strong part of this program. I really encourage you guys to download the software to try.

http://www.cartestsoftware.com/

This software has racetrack simulations, and it has a launch mode optimizations (it launches the car at various RPMs and selects the optimal rpm speed).


I am in no way associated with this company BTW.
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      03-14-2007, 07:53 PM   #17
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9000rpm? It'd sound like the proverbial wailing banshee...
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      03-14-2007, 08:35 PM   #18
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I think this software is pretty silly. If you know a lot about HP/weight, torque curves, gear ratios, and general principles of traction and aerodynamics you can make a pretty good guess as to the acceleration of the new M3.

I think the best way to estimate is to benchmark it against cars of similar weight, power and type.

Porsche 911 GT3: 415 HP, 300 lbft of torque, 3240 lbs.(7.8 lbs/HP) 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, 0-100 MPH in 8.7 secs, 1/4 mile in 12.0 @ 118 MPH (Car and Driver). Rear engined, so times would be a bit quicker due to better traction at launch. Trap speed is impressive!

BMW M5: 500 HP, 383 lbft torque, 4100 lbs (8.2 lbs/HP), 0-60 in 4.2 secs, 0-100 in 9.5, 1/4 mile in 12.2 @ 118 MPH (SMG 7 speeds).

Projected E92 M3: 420 HP, 306 lbft of torque (based on .8 x 383), 3500 lbs (it will definitely weigh very close to that based upon the measures BMW is taking to save weight). At 3500 lbs and 420 HP = 8.3 lbs/HP. With good gearing and DSG 7 speed should see 0-60 in 4.2 secs, 0-100 in 9.7, 1/4 mile in 12.4 114

Those are my official predictions. Anyone else?
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      03-14-2007, 09:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e36jakeo View Post
I think this software is pretty silly. If you know a lot about HP/weight, torque curves, gear ratios, and general principles of traction and aerodynamics you can make a pretty good guess as to the acceleration of the new M3.

I think the best way to estimate is to benchmark it against cars of similar weight, power and type.

Porsche 911 GT3: 415 HP, 300 lbft of torque, 3240 lbs.(7.8 lbs/HP) 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, 0-100 MPH in 8.7 secs, 1/4 mile in 12.0 @ 118 MPH (Car and Driver). Rear engined, so times would be a bit quicker due to better traction at launch. Trap speed is impressive!

BMW M5: 500 HP, 383 lbft torque, 4100 lbs (8.2 lbs/HP), 0-60 in 4.2 secs, 0-100 in 9.5, 1/4 mile in 12.2 @ 118 MPH (SMG 7 speeds).

Projected E92 M3: 420 HP, 306 lbft of torque (based on .8 x 383), 3500 lbs (it will definitely weigh very close to that based upon the measures BMW is taking to save weight). At 3500 lbs and 420 HP = 8.3 lbs/HP. With good gearing and DSG 7 speed should see 0-60 in 4.2 secs, 0-100 in 9.7, 1/4 mile in 12.4 114

Those are my official predictions. Anyone else?

0-60: 4.6 seconds
Quartermile: 12.8 seconds @ 106-107 mph
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      03-15-2007, 12:20 AM   #20
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Mine

Quote:
Originally Posted by e36jakeo View Post
Anyone else?
You probably saw mine, long ago before we even had some of the tidbits we have today. (my original post)

-0-60 mph: 4.1 s (not the brochure number, they always underrate)
-1/4 mi: 12.6 s
-Nurburgring Nordschleife lap time: 7:57 m:s
-Top speed: 190 mph (limiter removed, obviously)

Drive train:
-HP: 433 bhp (brochure number)
-Torque: 330 ft-lb

Body/Interior/Suspension:
-Weight: 3500 lb
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      03-15-2007, 03:58 AM   #21
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pure speculation here....

but i'm gonna go with

0-60: 1 second
and 0-100: 1.1 seconds.

that's just my guess.
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