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      07-16-2010, 12:21 PM   #23
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I would not recommend ps2 tires for lapping. They are good street tires but they are not track tires. I almost destroyed my brand new ps2 tires after 1 track event at thunderbolt NJ. And i was in 135i wich is lighter than e9x m3. My front tires were rolling over and riding on the sidewalls when got overheated. That is dangerous and could lead to tire failure. Sidewalls of this tires are not reinforced as much as other high performance street tires. Thats the reason they are a lot lighter than dunlop star specs for example. Iam not trying to scare you. Just my 2 cents

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      07-16-2010, 01:55 PM   #24
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This thread has some pretty darn useful information. Maybe it should be a sticky? Mods, you listening?


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      07-16-2010, 03:54 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by M3 09 AND135I 11 View Post
I would not recommend ps2 tires for lapping. They are good street tires but they are not track tires. I almost destroyed my brand new ps2 tires after 1 track event at thunderbolt NJ. And i was in 135i wich is lighter tham e9x m3. My front tires were rolling over and riding on the sidewalls when got overheated. That is dangerous and could lead to tire failure. Sidewalls of this tires are not reinforced as much as other high performance street tires. Thats the reason they are a lot lighter than dunlop star specs for example. Iam not trying to scare you. Just my 2 cents
Great so I have new tires all the way around, is it really important just for one event and can I get by or do you guys really think I need another set and if so what do you recommend. I think this will develop into an expensive hobby but agree I WOULD HATE to totally ruin these after just getting them on. AGAIN I AGREE this is turning into a great thread for me and hopefully for some of you guys out there as well.
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      07-16-2010, 04:09 PM   #26
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It all depends on how many times a year you will track your car. If its just 1 or 2, than i would stick to what you have. As a novice driver i think you will be ok. But if you track more than 3 times, a separate set of rims /tires is a must in my opinion.
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      07-16-2010, 04:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by linsm3 View Post
Great so I have new tires all the way around, is it really important just for one event and can I get by or do you guys really think I need another set and if so what do you recommend. I think this will develop into an expensive hobby but agree I WOULD HATE to totally ruin these after just getting them on. AGAIN I AGREE this is turning into a great thread for me and hopefully for some of you guys out there as well.
You are going to be fine. You won't need new tires for a couple of events and you won't ruin them. They will wear a lot faster though. If you get serious, consider a set of track tires/rims. As a point of reference, I did two track days running in intermediate and 10K miles on the OEM set, with probably ~1-2K left on the rear wheel tread, so you will do approximately 1-2K miles wear during the day. The fronts were less worn. I decided to switch slightly early.

The PS2s do not hold up well on the track compared to other brands when you get more competent and faster (I am comparing with another brand, which I won't quote to avoid a brand war). If you can find an M3 in a more experienced group, they will be able to help you modulating tire pressure and ensuring even wear through the day (hence everyone telling you to get a tire pressure gauge). Don't be afraid to ask for help during the day - everyone who is there has been exactly where you are as a novice, knows how you feel and is willing to help...especially a damsel in distress!

The tires will be grainy/scrubbed when you are done, but they will still be in good shape. Michelins are expensive because of their compound composition quality (and their brand!)
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      07-16-2010, 04:42 PM   #28
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Great so I have new tires all the way around, is it really important just for one event and can I get by or do you guys really think I need another set and if so what do you recommend. I think this will develop into an expensive hobby but agree I WOULD HATE to totally ruin these after just getting them on. AGAIN I AGREE this is turning into a great thread for me and hopefully for some of you guys out there as well.
You'll be fine with the current set for 1 track day.

As for becoming an expensive hobby, if you become addicted to it like many of us, well, it can be. You'll go through tires and brake pads regularly. I change the oil after 3-4 track days, which is also $120 per change. So it all adds up, but you have to pay to play. Actually, paying for the track time is the cheapest part.

Do you have PS2's now? Like others have said, they're not very good for the track. They get greasy after a couple of laps, and they're expensive. I'm currently using Bridgestone RE-11s, and I've been really happy with their performance so far. I'll probably try Yokohama AD08s next.
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      07-16-2010, 06:25 PM   #29
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You'll be fine with the current set for 1 track day.

As for becoming an expensive hobby, if you become addicted to it like many of us, well, it can be. You'll go through tires and brake pads regularly. I change the oil after 3-4 track days, which is also $120 per change. So it all adds up, but you have to pay to play. Actually, paying for the track time is the cheapest part.

Do you have PS2's now? Like others have said, they're not very good for the track. They get greasy after a couple of laps, and they're expensive. I'm currently using Bridgestone RE-11s, and I've been really happy with their performance so far. I'll probably try Yokohama AD08s next.
I just got new PS2's and didn't think I would need dedicated track tires going a couple of times but it makes sense. I would hate to wear these out just for the track so all of you have made a good point. Here is a really stupid question and its probably already been answered but what is the ideal tire pressure for the track and I remember reading that it should be different for front and rear and then how often should I be checking it through the day. I have so much to learn, I have to go back and read everyone's info and take notes I am afraid.
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      07-16-2010, 11:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 09 AND135I 11 View Post
I would not recommend ps2 tires for lapping. They are good street tires but they are not track tires. I almost destroyed my brand new ps2 tires after 1 track event at thunderbolt NJ. And i was in 135i wich is lighter tham e9x m3. My front tires were rolling over and riding on the sidewalls when got overheated. That is dangerous and could lead to tire failure. Sidewalls of this tires are not reinforced as much as other high performance street tires. Thats the reason they are a lot lighter than dunlop star specs for example. Iam not trying to scare you. Just my 2 cents
I can't disagree more. I have 4 track days on my PS2s and I have nearly 25,000 miles on them (the track days were at about 5k miles) on an E92 M3. As long as you don't over drive the car (unlikely as a beginner) or over drive the tires you will be fine. My 4 days include 3 days at Thunderbolt where I was one of the fastest cars in the advanced run group so I wasn't going slow. .

Keep an eye on your sidewalls and increase the pressures a few pounds if you are getting wear past the triangles on the sidewall. You'll be fine on the PS2s.
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      07-17-2010, 12:10 AM   #31
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I've found that PS2s do not handle heavy braking very well and wear out fast on a heavy car. I wore out my fronts in 4 tracks days, and the rears were fine (not talking about outside edge). Sidewalls are a serious issue as long as hot pressure is maintained ~40psi IMO. As Skierman said, these are all nonissues for a first track day...

EDIT: I meant to write, "Sidewalls are NOT a serious issue as long as hot pressure is maintained ~40psi IMO."
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      07-17-2010, 06:33 AM   #32
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I've found that PS2s do not handle heavy braking very well and wear out fast on a heavy car. I wore out my fronts in 4 tracks days, and the rears were fine (not talking about outside edge). Sidewalls are a serious issue as long as hot pressure is maintained ~40psi IMO. As Skierman said, these are all nonissues for a first track day...
So overall not to sweat it, just use the PS2s for now and pressure at 40, is that it. Here is one other question, to those of you who have DCT what gear do you use, I know at M school I pretty much got up to 3rd and that was it and that was at 100 top speed since it was a short track; this may be an incredibly stupid question so I apologize in advance, I know the power is at the high end so any suggestions appreciated.
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      07-17-2010, 09:55 AM   #33
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So overall not to sweat it, just use the PS2s for now and pressure at 40, is that it. Here is one other question, to those of you who have DCT what gear do you use, I know at M school I pretty much got up to 3rd and that was it and that was at 100 top speed since it was a short track; this may be an incredibly stupid question so I apologize in advance, I know the power is at the high end so any suggestions appreciated.
You can probably get around the whole track in third gear when you are learning the line with the instructor. He may even ask you to not worry and just drive the line - I have had an instructor do this with me in the first few laps. The M3 has so much juice that you can get away with this. I have MT, so the gearing is different, but I am guessing most of the track will be third gear (60-100) with a short stint in 4th/5th with DCT (guessing, with 6MT, with longer gears (only 6) 3rd at the top is ~107 and 4th is ~130) on the longest straight. When you have the line, you will get faster. When you start out, the gears are less of a concern - although changing gears with DCT is easier than 6MT as you don't have to worry about double-clutching etc.

Do you have the Skip Barber book "Going Faster"? (http://www.amazon.com/Going-Faster-M...9378056&sr=1-1)This is a great place to start reading up, and it helped me make sense of what the instructor was trying to get me to do (2nd time out, I wish I had read it before the first time). It is also something to read the night before at 2am if you are too excited to sleep! The Ross Bentley "Speed Secrets books (http://www.amazon.com/Speed-Secrets-...9378101&sr=1-1) is good too. Again, you'll get various opinions...this is mine
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      07-17-2010, 11:27 AM   #34
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I like to keep the rev's in the 5000 to 8,000 range. The more hard core guys will go all the way to 8,400
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      07-17-2010, 11:52 AM   #35
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So overall not to sweat it, just use the PS2s for now and pressure at 40, is that it.
Just to be clear, 40psi cold is too much. That pressure should be reached after the tires are hot. Low to mid 30s psi is probably where you'll want to set the pressure.

You may want to review this thread, as it discusses tire pressure more thoroughly: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390232
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      07-17-2010, 12:18 PM   #36
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Just to be clear, 40psi cold is too much. That pressure should be reached after the tires are hot. Low to mid 30s psi is probably where you'll want to set the pressure.

You may want to review this thread, as it discusses tire pressure more thoroughly: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390232
Thanks I will!
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      07-18-2010, 01:54 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by M3 09 AND135I 11 View Post
I would not recommend ps2 tires for lapping. They are good street tires but they are not track tires. I almost destroyed my brand new ps2 tires after 1 track event at thunderbolt NJ. And i was in 135i wich is lighter tham e9x m3. My front tires were rolling over and riding on the sidewalls when got overheated. That is dangerous and could lead to tire failure. Sidewalls of this tires are not reinforced as much as other high performance street tires. Thats the reason they are a lot lighter than dunlop star specs for example. Iam not trying to scare you. Just my 2 cents
+1 to that!

Ps2's are not only VERY expensive but NOT worth replacing when you can get WAY better tires for less. They melt on the track when pushed and I found got slippery when overheated.

I would recommend a good set of street/track tires like the Star Specs mentionned or, AD08's, RE11's,NT05's etc...Plus they will LAST you much longer for dual track/street use.
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      07-19-2010, 01:22 PM   #38
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+1 to that!

Ps2's are not only VERY expensive but NOT worth replacing when you can get WAY better tires for less. They melt on the track when pushed and I found got slippery when overheated.

I would recommend a good set of street/track tires like the Star Specs mentionned or, AD08's, RE11's,NT05's etc...Plus they will LAST you much longer for dual track/street use.
I concur that those are all great track tires, but she'll be fine on her PS2s for her first few tracking events.
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      07-19-2010, 03:56 PM   #39
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I havent read the other replied, but my suggestions:

Before you go: remove everything from your car (mats/glovebox stuff). Learn the track via youtube so you know which way to turn! Go to websites talking about apexing and heel-toe and try and learn driving basics. Learn the flags for your club (they can differ from club to club).

Bring: torque wrench, snacks/food (I like PB&J and chips), lawn chair, LOTS of water (stay hydrated, force fluids, pee before going on track ), decent tire pressure gauge (borrow a IR temp gauge if you can), painters tape (for your #'s), up to date helmet, camera, and shoes which have thin soles and fit snug.

Do: park near a shady spot, meet others (especially ones with the same car), have a good time, LISTEN to your instructor (You dont know more than him/her), drive within your comfort level (7/10ths is just as much fun as 10/10ths IMO), WATCH your rear view mirrors for cars coming up (wave them by early on the straight), watch the corner workers. Dont use your ebrake when in the pits, just leave it in gear on a flat area.

Dont worry about upgrading your car for the first few events. The tires and brakes and fluids are all fine for a first-timer.

You're going to love it! Post pics later!
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      07-19-2010, 04:55 PM   #40
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You can probably get around the whole track in third gear when you are learning the line with the instructor. He may even ask you to not worry and just drive the line - I have had an instructor do this with me in the first few laps. The M3 has so much juice that you can get away with this. I have MT, so the gearing is different, but I am guessing most of the track will be third gear (60-100) with a short stint in 4th/5th with DCT (guessing, with 6MT, with longer gears (only 6) 3rd at the top is ~107 and 4th is ~130) on the longest straight. When you have the line, you will get faster. When you start out, the gears are less of a concern - although changing gears with DCT is easier than 6MT as you don't have to worry about double-clutching etc.

Do you have the Skip Barber book "Going Faster"? (http://www.amazon.com/Going-Faster-M...9378056&sr=1-1)This is a great place to start reading up, and it helped me make sense of what the instructor was trying to get me to do (2nd time out, I wish I had read it before the first time). It is also something to read the night before at 2am if you are too excited to sleep! The Ross Bentley "Speed Secrets books (http://www.amazon.com/Speed-Secrets-...9378101&sr=1-1) is good too. Again, you'll get various opinions...this is mine
Great that helped a alot, I will look for those books!
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      07-19-2010, 04:58 PM   #41
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Wow there is some really good advice in this thread!
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      07-19-2010, 05:03 PM   #42
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no girls allowed on track. na jk. no not jk. ok fine jk
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      07-19-2010, 05:04 PM   #43
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I havent read the other replied, but my suggestions:

Before you go: remove everything from your car (mats/glovebox stuff). Learn the track via youtube so you know which way to turn! Go to websites talking about apexing and heel-toe and try and learn driving basics. Learn the flags for your club (they can differ from club to club).

Bring: torque wrench, snacks/food (I like PB&J and chips), lawn chair, LOTS of water (stay hydrated, force fluids, pee before going on track ), decent tire pressure gauge (borrow a IR temp gauge if you can), painters tape (for your #'s), up to date helmet, camera, and shoes which have thin soles and fit snug.

Do: park near a shady spot, meet others (especially ones with the same car), have a good time, LISTEN to your instructor (You dont know more than him/her), drive within your comfort level (7/10ths is just as much fun as 10/10ths IMO), WATCH your rear view mirrors for cars coming up (wave them by early on the straight), watch the corner workers. Dont use your ebrake when in the pits, just leave it in gear on a flat area.

Dont worry about upgrading your car for the first few events. The tires and brakes and fluids are all fine for a first-timer.

You're going to love it! Post pics later!
Thanks again for the help, will bring my camera and believe me I hope to pick up lots of info from the guys there!
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      07-20-2010, 04:30 PM   #44
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no girls allowed on track. na jk. no not jk. ok fine jk
I was waiting for that one lol
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