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      07-14-2010, 11:42 AM   #45
Sara504
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Quote:
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how about... "but that's different"?
One of my favorites.
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      07-14-2010, 07:03 PM   #46
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stubborness / lack of communication / arguing has to be in the top 5 reasons for divorce (after finance and infidelity)

is "irreconcilable differences" is a euphemism for lack of communication?
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      07-14-2010, 07:40 PM   #47
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Men are typically the more logical gender and women are typically more empathetic and creative, which is probably why they can win arguments sometimes when they are clearly wrong.
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      07-14-2010, 07:43 PM   #48
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Oksana Grigorieva disagrees with this thread.
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      07-14-2010, 09:13 PM   #49
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they do that so they can tell their girl friends how fucked up you are for not understanding them.
I LOL'D
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      07-14-2010, 10:40 PM   #50
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One of my favorites.

My intolerance of double standards has a lot to do with my still being single I'll admit it. You want flowers? I want hockey tickets!... give and take etc... anyway...

I read a book about what's right and wrong that shed a lot of light on this this subject. It really has to do with the world and how most (I'm speaking on a very general level) women and men approach morality. It's called "The science of good and evil" by renowned skeptic Dr. Shermer. While the scope of the book is much larger there is one part that I though provided some insights into this dynamic. In it he mentions a study where they determined two separate systems for determining what is right and what is wrong. To avoid being sexist I'll mention which ones are associated with which sex in parenthesis. Of course you are going to find multiple examples showing evidence to the contrary. I'm speaking generally here.

The two main ones are Justice based (men) and relationship based (women).

Men see things very black and white. (justice) You are caught doing something wrong, or you prove a particular point that makes you right and that's that. You committed the crime so you should pay the time. Men will likely accept an apology if this "sentence" is carried out even if it is suspect to be a bit disingenuous. Or in the case of being right and wrong, You made a particularly well constructed point, you are right, the GF is wrong and that's the end of it. Or vice-versa.

Women see things in a more gray perspective. Relationships are dynamic entities and should be preserved at great cost. Women are not more fond of deceit than men, however if the situation dictated that a woman lied to preserve some sort of relationship, they are much more forgiving. This probably has a lot to do with the success of those shitty Twilight books. Edward and Jacob can choke on a fat one in my book, but their relationship to each other is what appeals to the masses. Relationships, even adversarial, are dynamic entities that are constantly changing and therefore interesting. This is probably why men consider women to be the root of all evil, because great injustices can be validated under these rules if the emotional motivation makes sense to the woman who is evaluating the case.


The rest of this is my personal observations and not based on the work of Dr. Shermer.


This also has a lot to do with why your girlfriend will occasionally seem to pick a fight with you just because they are bored. I don't know if it's a cultural thing or societal thing but I know every man has experienced this. If your relationship doesn't have some degree of conflict in it there is no chance for it to reach that ever elusive higher level and it becomes sedentary, which in woman speak is almost a big of a death sentence as the "lets just be friends" mentality. Incidentally if you are one of those "friends" who wonders why a girl will share with you her most personal thoughts and feelings, but pass you up to go bang the most ill adjusted, worthless, jobless, can't even hold an entry level position for 6 months, emotion-less, douche-bag she finds at the local bar this will explain why. Your "relationship" is more valuable to her than just sex, which most women can get just about whenever they want (not always with who they want of course). Or maybe your breath stinks or she is out of your league. All are possible.

Women are also much more sensitive to non-verbal cues because of the emotion behind them. Have you ever caught two women communicating across a busy, loud, crowded room with only a few mouthed words and facial expressions? Ever wonder how they do that shit? It's like Jedi mind reading, except that they have already talked about it, know what the other one is thinking/feeling because they have been there themselves etc... Which is when women speak to each other they will get right into each others faces and personal space and be better at picking up the meaning to subtle facial expressions such as a forlorn expression than a man. While men perceive the very same action as a threat.

Men on the other hand, again think in black and white terms. If I catch a man making eye contact with me from across the room I immediately assume he is gay (no offense) or a threat, constantly evaluating me and very may well pull out a knife and try and stab me if I let my guard down. This also has a lot to do with dudes getting into a fight just because the other guy "looked at him wrong". That being said once the contest is over, they will likely be friends and even buying beers for each other since the justice based, male mind, has little time for putting things in a gray category. The fight is over, the other guy was probably misunderstood, and after the adrenaline and testosterone levels have finally subsided you realize they really weren't that bad of a guy after all. In fact you probably have a lot in common with them.

Women, when upset with another woman, will pass the judgment of God upon them without remorse or mercy. While men will subscribe to the "did the crime, do your time" mentality, once you have done your time there is some room for forgiveness or acceptance. I don't fully understand this, but if one woman hates another, only God can help you if you happen to be in the middle or intervene. They will tear that woman down to nothing on almost every front, verbally, physically, etc... and still not be satisfied. They will probably embarrass the other woman as much as possible. Expose all of their dirty laundry, then bang the other woman's boyfriend, and maybe his or her brother or father for good measure and still not be done. Her goal is to sever the others relationships as this is the most valuable thing to most women and will hurt them the most.

In conclusion, neither method is necessarily right or wrong. I'm a man so of course it makes sense which one fits my views. However it does strike me as a near miracle that men and women manage to get together and procreate at all with all of this abnormal psychology going on. I guess we have hormones and genetic pre-disposition to thank for our existence.

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      07-15-2010, 03:50 AM   #51
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My intolerance of double standards has a lot to do with my still being single I'll admit it. You want flowers? I want hockey tickets!... give and take etc... anyway.....

[............ edited-out for sake of room.............]

-BMW2006
I thoroughly enjoyed reading that. I can't believe you sat down to write so much, but it was a good read. Thanks.

I really agree with you on several points:

1) No gray scale for men: This is so true. I've noticed that when I fight with my buddies, I usually have a very white and black mentality. I either hate his guts and "that's IT" between us, or, he's alright. But, I also agree with the Justice method, since men tend to drop past conflicts and become friends again after a period of time.

2) The way women never stop hating other women: You know, I never really understood why some of the girls I've met in my life held such powerful grudges. Like, they wouldn't let them go -- they just couldn't. It makes sense though that they'd do everything to destroy the image of the other girl though, since relationships are the most important to women. This one definitely shed some light for me.

3) The intimacy in face-to-face: I watched a video by a Dr. Helen Fisher (she does world-leading research on human attraction, relationships, and love). She said that, looking from an evolutionary stand-point, male hunters were in the hiding, looking past the bushes, making sure to get their prey. Because of this side-by-side interaction while hunting together, men evolutionary developed a way of communicating without the face-to-face intimacy. This is most likely why when you're talking to your buddy about important problems, the both of you don't make a lot of eye contact. Instead you sit sort of side-by-side and look out somewhere while discussing.

Likewise, women developed an evolutionary means of "intimacy" through holding their young and looking at their faces. Which is why women tend to sit in front of each other and face each other when talking.

Good read. +1
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      07-15-2010, 08:21 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanity View Post
She said that, looking from an evolutionary stand-point, male hunters were in the hiding, looking past the bushes, making sure to get their prey. Because of this side-by-side interaction while hunting together, men evolutionary developed a way of communicating without the face-to-face intimacy. This is most likely why when you're talking to your buddy about important problems, the both of you don't make a lot of eye contact. Instead you sit sort of side-by-side and look out somewhere while discussing.
This is really true with most every guy I know, am friends with, or interact with. Business? Sit across from each other, occasional eye contact, but not a weird amount. Talking about whatever with friends? Both stare at a rock or the bottles/tvs on the other side of the bar or whatever. Sometimes when I go to a bar or something with my GF it's a similar story sitting at a table or something - I'm facing "out" while she's always facing me. She sometimes thinks it's cuz I'm bored or would rather check out other chicks but it's really just how I feel comfortable.


Quote:
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2) The way women never stop hating other women: You know, I never really understood why some of the girls I've met in my life held such powerful grudges. Like, they wouldn't let them go -- they just couldn't. It makes sense though that they'd do everything to destroy the image of the other girl though, since relationships are the most important to women. This one definitely shed some light for me.
LOL this too. Like 3 years ago when I had facebook I had some pictures with a friend/acquaintance who was Asian who I swear I never smashed or anything. My GF saw these pictures BEFORE we were going out, and still thinks I have some sort of Asian fetish and brings it up out of no where! Like she'll say "oh I want to get sushi tonight" so I'm like ok sure and she'll say something like "yea you'd love to see all those asian waitresses" WTF

Last edited by BTM; 07-15-2010 at 11:08 AM.
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      07-15-2010, 10:00 AM   #53
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To these last three posts, I completely agree with everything that has been said. Definitely some insightful information there. I like how the thread kind of started off as a joke but really turned into an intellectual conversation. Needless to say, I'm subscribed.
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      07-15-2010, 08:45 PM   #54
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I thoroughly enjoyed reading that. I can't believe you sat down to write so much, but it was a good read. Thanks.
Thanks, I didn't start out meaning to write that much but I just kept typing. I had just received an "update" e-mail from an ex who I haven't dated in two years and remember thinking "my god she is still interested in keeping the relationship alive" even though we both know we'll never romantically be involved again etc... I was also a tumbler deep into a scotch whiskey so was also feeling a little introspective (also why there are so many grammatical errors etc.. sorry! lol)

It was a lot of typing to really say "this is why your girlfriend thinks she is right, even when she is clearly wrong" lol.

Anyway on to your points. I really never thought of the guys looking away from each other stuff. That's pretty interesting. So many images come to mind that fit that perfectly, two old guys smoking their pipes on a bench, father and son walking side by side while they talk, watching football with the guys etc... we don't spend much time looking at each other... Interesting to consider that practice may have pre-historical roots to our hunter-gatherer days.

Also on the business side too like BTM mentioned. Negotiating will always happen face to face, however in most other situations we kind of set up an "out" to look at when dealing with other men. Anyway the aforementioned scotch has left me with a lingering all day headache so I appreciate your insights but will keep it brief tonight.

Also at the face book stuff. One of my exes couldn't review my Myspace page with me in the room. She waited until I left and then called one of her friends to also pull it up so they could look at it together. God knows how much scanning they did looking for either other ex-girlfriends' pages of mine or other things to learn about me. When we broke up I told her it was creepy, she said it was just kind of a girl thing. Who knows heh.

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      07-15-2010, 10:09 PM   #55
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tl;dr. Refuse tr, actually.
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      07-16-2010, 12:51 PM   #56
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tl;dr. Refuse tr, actually.
It's worth the read lmao, if you have time that is.
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      07-16-2010, 03:50 PM   #57
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Trying having the mind of a female for a day, and you'd understand why were are so crazy.
That explains nothing. Pretty much giving an example of what the OP is talking about.
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      07-16-2010, 05:15 PM   #58
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That explains nothing. Pretty much giving an example of what the OP is talking about.
Dont listen to her, she is just strirring the pot for her enjoyment
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