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      06-11-2010, 02:59 PM   #23
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true dat! have you seen any for sale? I haven't...
I've seen a ton of them at some shops
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      06-11-2010, 03:13 PM   #24
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I've seen a ton of them at some shops
Yep it's not an issue at all... nor are you screwing anyone over, nor would I need it for resale.
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      06-11-2010, 08:28 PM   #25
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I know you don't live in the People's Republic of Communistic California... but I had a friend who bought an e46 m3 that the first owner had hollowed out the cats of. Turns out the guy must've used a shady smog place as he smogged it before selling the car... but, after 2 years, my friend had to smog it again and there was NO WAY it was going to pass. He took it to the dealership and the dealership voided the 100k mile warranty on his cats, because they'd been hammered out. It was a real pain, he had to buy new cats for the car, and even used, they are not cheap. The car got flagged a gross polluter and he had to jump through hoops to sell it, and it showed up on the carfax. He really got hosed. It may not be the case in the rest of the country with easier smog laws, just wanted y'all to understand where I am coming from.
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      06-11-2010, 09:22 PM   #26
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I have no problem with others spreading their wealth to the aftermarket. But show me the money on performance.

After asking every manufacturer of X-pipes, not a single one was able to say that their product provides ANY increase in hp over the factory pipe w/o the secodary cat. Go ahead ... ask them.

And as far as going back to stock, since the secondary cats are not monitored by the car (OBD) and they are visually present, I don't see a real scenario where I would have to go back to stock (resale or otherwise).

But if you need that insurance, there are a number of aftermarket guys gladly willing to take you money ....
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      06-11-2010, 11:07 PM   #27
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Cool story bro, no one can beat your x-pipe.
Cool meme, bro.
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      06-12-2010, 04:26 AM   #28
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Quote:
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true dat! have you seen any for sale? I haven't...
I have mine lying around just taking up space. Not altered in any way, used for 1200 miles anyone feel free to PM me if anyones interested. I'm in socal.
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      06-12-2010, 10:06 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutonic M3 View Post
I have no problem with others spreading their wealth to the aftermarket. But show me the money on performance.

After asking every manufacturer of X-pipes, not a single one was able to say that their product provides ANY increase in hp over the factory pipe w/o the secodary cat. Go ahead ... ask them.

And as far as going back to stock, since the secondary cats are not monitored by the car (OBD) and they are visually present, I don't see a real scenario where I would have to go back to stock (resale or otherwise).

But if you need that insurance, there are a number of aftermarket guys gladly willing to take you money ....
Haha. You don't have to justify that what you're doing is smart.
This obviously makes the most sense to save money.

It's the same principle as the OEM exhaust mod. Why pay for an aftermarket cat-back exhaust if it's only for audible reasons? As we've seen, you can gut your stock exhaust to make a pretty interesting exhaust note. There's no real performance gain until you reach the x-pipe. Again, with most reliable vendors, people are paying for the R&D and build quality - trying to compare the two routes is comparing apples to oranges. Each have their pros and cons.

I'm curious to know how your setup sounds, though.
Any noticeable difference in sound by removing the two 2ndary cats? Obviously the performance is there.
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      06-13-2010, 10:43 AM   #30
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Haha. You don't have to justify that what you're doing is smart.
This obviously makes the most sense to save money.

It's the same principle as the OEM exhaust mod. Why pay for an aftermarket cat-back exhaust if it's only for audible reasons? As we've seen, you can gut your stock exhaust to make a pretty interesting exhaust note. There's no real performance gain until you reach the x-pipe. Again, with most reliable vendors, people are paying for the R&D and build quality - trying to compare the two routes is comparing apples to oranges. Each have their pros and cons.

I'm curious to know how your setup sounds, though.
Any noticeable difference in sound by removing the two 2ndary cats? Obviously the performance is there.
Agree.

400+HP is almost no use in Los Angels traffic. Why than do we modify our car with aftermarket exhuast system? Purely for exhaust note or just to make our balls bigger. However, give me a M3 with a nice exhaust and I will be happy to dive it in the traffic any day.

Teutonic M3, I am glad you found a resolution to your exh. modding crave, though. Please do not criticize other for doing otherwise with reputable manufacturer.
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      06-13-2010, 11:01 AM   #31
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I'm curious to know how your setup sounds, though.
Any noticeable difference in sound by removing the two 2ndary cats? Obviously the performance is there.
Yes, the overall sound becomes much more aggressive, it's hard to explain, but it's only a touch louder, but different sounding. Maybe it just sounds a little more raw without a second set smoothing and muffling the sound
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      06-13-2010, 12:38 PM   #32
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Yes, the overall sound becomes much more aggressive, it's hard to explain, but it's only a touch louder, but different sounding. Maybe it just sounds a little more raw without a second set smoothing and muffling the sound
I think you described the sound pretty well What you said makes sense.
To be honest, it's something that I might do if I can find an extra stock x-pipe.

I'd love to hear sound clips.

Can the OP or someone else confirm that there is no CEL when gutting the 2ndary stock cats?

Good thread.
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      06-13-2010, 01:11 PM   #33
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I think you described the sound pretty well What you said makes sense.
To be honest, it's something that I might do if I can find an extra stock x-pipe.

I'd love to hear sound clips.

Can the OP or someone else confirm that there is no CEL when gutting the 2ndary stock cats?

Good thread.
No CEL or other issues. The exhaust system does not have an O2 or other sensors after the secondary cats, so it has no way of knowing whether they are present.

Sound is almost identical unless you get on it. At full tilt, you can hear the exhaust out of the rear pipes (which I thought was hard to do with the factory set-up). But absolutely no drone or unpleasant noise in the car.
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      06-13-2010, 01:49 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutonic M3 View Post
No CEL or other issues. The exhaust system does not have an O2 or other sensors after the secondary cats, so it has no way of knowing whether they are present.

Sound is almost identical unless you get on it. At full tilt, you can hear the exhaust out of the rear pipes (which I thought was hard to do with the factory set-up). But absolutely no drone or unpleasant noise in the car.
Good info.
I just might see if I can find a stock x-pipe and try this out!
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      06-17-2010, 06:49 PM   #35
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I love how the tables turned about half way down the first page of this thread.

1. If you dont particulary care about your stock piping then I think this is great.
2. If I wanted to resell I would probably get some aftermarket setup.
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      06-18-2010, 07:33 AM   #36
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I love how the tables turned about half way down the first page of this thread.

1. If you dont particulary care about your stock piping then I think this is great.
2. If I wanted to resell I would probably get some aftermarket setup.
I think the underlying theme you just stated above is what was said all along. It was how the OP addressed the aftermarket route initially that got people riled up

When I have time I definitely might try this for kicks, but I need to find a spare stock x-pipe first!
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      06-18-2010, 08:31 AM   #37
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Screw it...just do it no stock pipe lol. I actually have to do my research.
I will most likely just roll with this: http://fabspeed.com/BMW.html so I can just increase a bit of sound/power then at a later date possibly do the main cats.
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      06-18-2010, 10:53 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Screw it...just do it no stock pipe lol. I actually have to do my research.
I will most likely just roll with this: http://fabspeed.com/BMW.html so I can just increase a bit of sound/power then at a later date possibly do the main cats.
Fabspeed is a good choice!
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      06-18-2010, 12:18 PM   #39
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I know I installed there e46 headers and it is such a beautiful sound.
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      06-18-2010, 12:28 PM   #40
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A smell a career in auto engineering?........NOT
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      06-18-2010, 10:37 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutonic M3 View Post
No CEL or other issues. The exhaust system does not have an O2 or other sensors after the secondary cats, so it has no way of knowing whether they are present.

Sound is almost identical unless you get on it. At full tilt, you can hear the exhaust out of the rear pipes (which I thought was hard to do with the factory set-up). But absolutely no drone or unpleasant noise in the car.

Good job!
I've never understood why so many people here don't mind spending a lot of money on aftermarket exhaust systems that drone or with unpleasant noise below 3,000 rpm.

This is definitely my next mod...
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      06-20-2010, 12:47 AM   #42
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See, the issue here is that it's not just your secondary cats. If you want to go back to stock (and if you sell the car, I really hope you are going to do so) you are going to have to buy a new cat section. They're something insane like $5500 from BMW for just the primary + secondary cats. I think your are going to end up saving very little and spending a LOT in the long run... or screwing over whomever buys your car.
You could also just weld in the stock cats again for $50, OR trade with soemone local for their stock X-pipe.

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I know you don't live in the People's Republic of Communistic California... but I had a friend who bought an e46 m3 that the first owner had hollowed out the cats of. Turns out the guy must've used a shady smog place as he smogged it before selling the car... but, after 2 years, my friend had to smog it again and there was NO WAY it was going to pass. He took it to the dealership and the dealership voided the 100k mile warranty on his cats, because they'd been hammered out. It was a real pain, he had to buy new cats for the car, and even used, they are not cheap. The car got flagged a gross polluter and he had to jump through hoops to sell it, and it showed up on the carfax. He really got hosed. It may not be the case in the rest of the country with easier smog laws, just wanted y'all to understand where I am coming from.
Did he have the secondary cats still in place? Otherwise he should have known easily from the smell if he was catless.

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Good job!
I've never understood why so many people here don't mind spending a lot of money on aftermarket exhaust systems that drone or with unpleasant noise below 3,000 rpm.

This is definitely my next mod...
The OP's post sounded like a hack job but makes sense, and most people here have no idea what's going on with their car. BUT they do know how to throw money at it. You should have seen this place early on. EVERYONE wanted those big bling wheels with 360 Forged being the top of the list. Big ass boat anchors where the most popular wheel here. Now people think you're a hack if you modify your stock X-pipe because it's so cheap and not all shiney.

If you want a cleaner look, you just have them cut after the primary cats to the right at the resonators. The welds can be a little ugly because the stock pipes are flattened around the secondary cats and X-pipe area making it difficult to get a clean weld; just replace the x-pipe and make the weld at the resonators. It's about $200 at an exhauste place I've used before.
I haven't done this yet because I just don't feel the need for more power. I need more track time before I need more power.

.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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