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      06-18-2010, 01:28 PM   #23
mkoesel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
As to the M3, this is the first Hockenheim time we have for a ZCP E92 with DCT, which -- on regular Michelin PS2 -- was even a tenth faster than the E92 M3 (6MT) on Cup+ tires.


Question is, though, how much of the improvement was the DCT and how much (if any) was the ZCP (lower suspsension, wider track, active EDC Sport mode).
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      06-18-2010, 01:53 PM   #24
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2012 BMW E92 M3  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Attachment 398847

Today's Sport Auto features a comparison test between the E92 M3 DCT ZCP and the new Audi RS5. Let's dance...

Here are the results:

E92 M3RS5
0-100 kph5.0 s4.7 s
0-200 kph16.0 s16.5 s
Hockenheim1:14.2 min1:15.3 min
18m slalom70.1 kph67.4 kph
braking distance (100 kph)34.6 m34.6 m
fuel consumption (l per 100km)17.4 l18.7 l
(curb) weight1640 kg1816 kg
weight front/rear51.1% /48.9 %56.9 % / 43.1 %


Some here might have guessed that already, the M3 won that comparison. Sport Auto's verdict pretty much summed up that the M3 and the RS5 are built for different people. It's not so much a surprise that the M3 beat the RS5 in all performance categories, surprising though is that Sport Auto even liked the ride in the M3 (EDC) more than Audi's adaptive suspension. On top, the M3 testcar was roughly 10k € cheaper.

As to the M3, this is the first Hockenheim time we have for a ZCP E92 with DCT, which -- on regular Michelin PS2 -- was even a tenth faster than the E92 M3 (6MT) on Cup+ tires.


Best regards,
south


So much for all that talk about the Audi RS5 being besting the M3 in performance. The lads in Munich may have already fired off an email to the Audi chaps at Ingolstadt saying..."Thanks for playing. Better luck next time."
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      06-18-2010, 01:56 PM   #25
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one thing I heard someone say about why he wouldnt buy an RS, S or Audi in the first place is that they all look the same. Nothing readily makes an RS/S one stand out amongst the rest expect the badge and a few flared things.
They said the front looks gaudy.
And thats what I heard. True?
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      06-18-2010, 02:00 PM   #26
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I, would also TAKE the RS5 over the M3 but would never BUY a RS5 over an M3. In the US, the RS5 would never hold its value over an m3. Same with any lamborgini.
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      06-18-2010, 02:17 PM   #27
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For a car that is completely mediocre to drive despites it's "sporting" looks the A5 showcases the deception of Audi as a rival to BMW's dynamic performance image of producing real drivers cars.

Of course the Audi "MINI Killer" The A1 has not exactly turned out as expected. It will sell on account of it's Audiness but the MINI, even before the refreshed MINI arrives soon is still the better car to drive. Wait till they get hold of the new updated Cooper S and A1 will still be buried dynamically.
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      06-18-2010, 02:29 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ase2dais View Post
They said the front looks gaudy.
And thats what I heard. True?
Sport Auto said the RS5 looks shiny, but that was merely an allusion to the matte paint of the M3.

BTW: I forgot to mention that Sport Auto also liked the M3's steering (both weight and feel) way more than the Audi's.


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      06-18-2010, 02:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallsBrawn View Post
I would buy the RS5 regardless. Its much more exclusive than the M3 and it can hang out with more expensive cars based on looks.

BTW the resale value of the RS5 will hold up better than the M3

RS5>M3
.

BBrawn, did you create that huge space in your post to annoy us or is that an error in the thread...
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      06-18-2010, 02:34 PM   #30
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glad to know i made the right decision, and with 2 kids and 4 doors, no contest.
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      06-18-2010, 02:36 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhn2000 View Post
BBrawn, did you create that huge space in your post to annoy us or is that an error in the thread...
I took care of this.


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      06-18-2010, 02:52 PM   #32
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Nobody has mentioned the glaring discrepancy in the 0-100kph times. That is hardly beating the RS5 in all performance categories.
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      06-18-2010, 02:54 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Blue Liquid View Post
Nobody has mentioned the glaring discrepancy in the 0-100kph times. That is hardly beating the RS5 in all performance categories.
I was wondering how long it takes until someone mentions this.


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      06-18-2010, 03:00 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PM3 View Post
thats just the quattro working...better grip at launch
Still, I edited my comment to "virtually all performance categories".


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      06-18-2010, 03:03 PM   #35
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^^^ well quattro is pretty impressive. not sure which models have quattro though i dont follow audi too closely.

in regards to "take" vs "buy" id take both but buy the m3. but im not biased or anything just because i already have and love 2 generations of m3s
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      06-18-2010, 03:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PM3 View Post
if ur a poser sure...who would buy a sports car thats inferior to one thats also cheaper???

Whats the point of buying a sports car for its looks??? u must not have very good roads around where u are...cause if you had some of the ones i have you would never buy something that weights as much as the rs5 does

based on this idealogy you would never buy an m3 either. You'd stick to something cheaper and easier to tune. an m3 itself is a stylish, luxurious, sports car that carries with it the BMW price tag.
part of getting a bmw is getting a car with incredible driving dynamics and still not sacrificing ride quality, comfort, and luxury.
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      06-18-2010, 03:27 PM   #37
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He's not a poser. People buy sports cars for speed, handling and looks. I challenge you to take either of these cars to their limit... for anyone who likes a sport car and doesn't track it, owning either won't make a big difference. It will be mostly based on looks and feel.
I agree, and if you are a real enthusiast, you should get a boxter/cayman. Those will eat these cars for breakfast on the roads that were mentioned.
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      06-18-2010, 03:30 PM   #38
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He's not a poser. People buy sports cars for speed, handling and looks. I challenge you to take either of these cars to their limit... for anyone who likes a sport car and doesn't track it, owning either won't make a big difference. It will be mostly based on looks and feel.
Exactly! Everyone on here thinks they're Mario Andretti. Looks, feel and SOUND are what matters to most of us. These cars are so close in speed and agility that very few here would be able to determine a significant difference on the track.
Audi wins hands down in the sound department. I just traded my B7 S4 for a 335 e92. 335 sound s like a Honda compared to the S4 rumble. I miss it. If I could trade back ...I would.
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      06-18-2010, 03:40 PM   #39
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Exactly! Everyone on here thinks they're Mario Andretti. Looks, feel and SOUND are what matters to most of us. These cars are so close in speed and agility that very few here would be able to determine a significant difference on the track.
Audi wins hands down in the sound department. I just traded my B7 S4 for a 335 e92. 335 sound s like a Honda compared to the S4 rumble. I miss it. If I could trade back ...I would.
NO! SOUND = M5 (E60) > RS6 (C6)
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      06-18-2010, 03:42 PM   #40
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i'm very surprise at the weight. thats more than 200kg or 400lbs more than the m3. wow......

this just show how great of a package the m3 is.
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      06-18-2010, 03:58 PM   #41
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Considering how much more money the RS5 costs that is major fail for Audi. I am genuinely disappointed after so much buildup to the RS5. The last generation RS4 was so nice.
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      06-18-2010, 04:04 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Attachment 398847

Today's Sport Auto features a comparison test between the E92 M3 DCT ZCP and the new Audi RS5. Let's dance...

Some here might have guessed that already, the M3 won that comparison. Sport Auto's verdict pretty much summed up that the M3 and the RS5 are built for different people. It's not so much a surprise that the M3 beat the RS5 in virtually all performance categories, surprising though is that Sport Auto even liked the ride in the M3 (EDC) more than Audi's adaptive suspension. On top, the M3 testcar was roughly 10k € cheaper.

As to the M3, this is the first Hockenheim time we have for a ZCP E92 with DCT, which -- on regular Michelin PS2 -- was even a tenth faster than the E92 M3 (6MT) on Cup+ tires.

Best regards,
south
Top info, South! The complexity = +weight of the RS5's a drag, literally.
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      06-18-2010, 04:22 PM   #43
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4,000+ pounds? Cars are getting to be more tanks than cars.

I wonder what the M3 with DCT would have done with a 275/295 setup? Sure, not stock, but I'd be curious to know what that would do to the 0-100 KPH times.

But the E9x M3 is no waif either at 3,750 pounds or so. In a recent Roundel article with Steve Dinan said something to the effect that more rubber "makes the weight seem to go away". Anyone running a wider setup found that to be the case? 'Cause I've really found my "sweet spot" for fun in cars is around the 3,000 pound level. M3 is great, but I feel the weight and size especially after driving the wife's Z4M. If I could mitigate that (and weight reduction simply isn't possible, Lucid took a hard look at that) it sure would make the car seem more fun in the good weather months. (No way I'm running a hydroplane nightmare like that in the winter!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PM3 View Post
+ 1

one of the last great bmw for a long time to come...i will sure miss NA engines, hidraulic steering and low weight...

with the batch of future cars from bmw coming our way these cars second hand value will only go up as true enthusiasts will appreciate these more and more. just recently bmw car magazine had a feature on M5s and they choose the E39 has the one to have. not that there is anything wrong with the E60 but something went missing with that generation.
my CSL value actually went up around 2000 since I bought it. For me the next big thing is going to be the Z4M coup. Love the looks, better to drive than the current gen - and apparently there will be no M (even though they said the same about last generation) and only a few were made.
You'll love the Z4M. Lots and lots of fun, always puts a smile on my face (when I get to drive it that is ). The ~3,200 pound weight is nice too.

Add an Eisenmann sport and it the fun increases (good sounds, easier to rev match). It is a quirky and twitchy car though (part of it's fun/charm to me, and why my wife loves it so) and very demanding to drive. Needs the Turner e36 washer kit or camber plates up front unless you want it understeering and plowing for days since you can't dial in enough camber stock. (Pop over the the Z4 board if you want more info...there's a good handling thread in the track/autocross section going.)

Last edited by Finnegan; 06-18-2010 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Added Link
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      06-18-2010, 04:24 PM   #44
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Quote:
But the E9x M3 is no waif either at 3,750 pounds or so
When people on here have weighed their cars it turns out they're closer to between 3500 - 3600 depending on options. Still not a lightweight but better than what BMW's published numbers are.
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