Self Defence for sure...

[xbook]

Originally Posted by cycler

Let me ask you something since you are being a little biased here because I think you are turkish. If you had intelligence that known terrorists were on board a humanitarian ship that could either be carrying weapons or aid and was coming to the shores of your country what would you do? How would you act when you told the ship countless times not to enter your waters and they kept coming?

By the way the turkish government might of condemed this as a political move and removed its ambassador from Israel however behind the scenes they are still trading military secrets with the israelis as well as weapons. That has not stopped. So you tell me, do you really think the Turkish government really cared what the Israelis did when they boarded? No they didnt especially when they knew known terrorists were on that ship. This was all about seeing how the US reacted and the US reacted perfectly for a change.

Known terrorists....sure ...

[cycler]

Originally Posted by xbook

The cops needed 50 bullets to bring unarmed man down? No wonder there is a bill to not have them not shoot to kill.

The 50 shots weren't only for 1 guy. If I recall there were 2 others they shot at. However be that as it may do really think the cops will be able to aim at the arms and legs to wound him. Or try shooting the perps gun out of his hands if they cant even hit center mass. The people pushing this bill think we are in the wild west movies. They think our NYPD will be able to pull their guns out of their holsters and with one shot take the gun out of the perps hands. This has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

[xbook]

Originally Posted by cycler

The 50 shots weren't only for 1 guy. If I recall there were 2 others they shot at. However be that as it may do really think the cops will be able to aim at the arms and legs to wound him. Or try shooting the perps gun out of his hands if they cant even hit center mass. The people pushing this bill think we are in the wild west movies. They think our NYPD will be able to pull their guns out of their holsters and with one shot take the gun out of the perps hands. This has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

What about Amadou Diallo? The NYPD has shown it has a history of abusing deadly force.

[cycler]

Originally Posted by xbook

What about Amadou Diallo? The NYPD has shown it has a history of abusing deadly force.

Mistaken deadly force happens in every major city. And I'm not saying it is right. Every ones life (unless they are child molesters, rapists or murders) is valuable. But when a cop says stop and hands up.....you dont reach for your wallet or anything else for that matter. Granted the cops in the Bell case had alcohol in their system so I will not use them in this example. By the way I'm not a cop. That being said cops are walking targets on a daily basis. What we dont hear is the physical abuse cops get on a daily basis or how many times cops are shot at. Those statistics are never reported by the media because they arent interesting. Even the cops who have been shot and killed in NYC dont get the same coverage that dead perps receive. Here is an example. Two cops were shot and 1 was killed at point blank range 2 years ago. And one of the perps got off.

The NYPD has a history of abuse but for every case of deadly force that was not justified there has been plenty of documented and undocumented cases of physical force against cops and plenty of deadly incidents against cops as well. Its funny how when you need the cops they are your friend but the moment they leave or do something someone doesnt like its "fuckin assholes"

[cycler]

By the way regarding the ships delivering aid to Gaza, why didn't they just go to the Egyptian ports and enter Gaza that way. It is only an extra 50 miles and then their goods could have been delivered and non of this chaos would have happened. Now I'm no genious however I think this was done purposely so as to provoke the Israelis into doing what they did. I dont think the terrorists aboard that ship really cared if any civilians got killed. They sit there and hide behind them and if a civilian gets killed then al-jazeera broadcasts it on tv and says look at what the Israelis did.

So far the countries that are siding with Israel are, the US, Czech Republic, Norway, Italy, France. More and more countries will come out and support Israel. Many of them are just tired of the islamic radicals and the way muslims are acting in their countries.

If I went to Saudi Arabia with my wife I would have to adhere to their laws and customs. So why dont they adhere to our laws and customs. Maybe its because they would like to over populate and take over eventually. At least thats my opinion. Sooner of later all will back fire and realize certain things and wake up

[selman]

Originally Posted by cycler

Let me ask you something since you are being a little biased here because I think you are turkish. If you had intelligence that known terrorists were on board a humanitarian ship that could either be carrying weapons or aid and was coming to the shores of your country what would you do? How would you act when you told the ship countless times not to enter your waters and they kept coming?

By the way the turkish government might of condemed this as a political move and removed its ambassador from Israel however behind the scenes they are still trading military secrets with the israelis as well as weapons. That has not stopped. So you tell me, do you really think the Turkish government really cared what the Israelis did when they boarded? No they didnt especially when they knew known terrorists were on that ship. This was all about seeing how the US reacted and the US reacted perfectly for a change.

Turkish government never interfered with this campaign. It was an independent aid campaign which was constituted by civillians. Ships were carrying full of aid stuff and there wasn't any weapon. Also you cannot see muslims or Turkish people or other people coming from nearly 32 different country as a terrorist. Terrorist is a soldier who had shot 18 years old guy from head 4 times even he had been wounded. Everybody knows what Israel try to do and its strategy in the middle east so they are just trying to legitimize its raid by telling the same statements in your message.

We have agreements on military weapons but I do not know what happens from this moment. Three common military operations cancelled.

[cycler]

Originally Posted by selman

Turkish government never interfered with this campaign. It was an independent aid campaign which was constituted by civillians. Ships were carrying full of aid stuff and there wasn't any weapon. Also you cannot see muslims or Turkish people or other people coming from nearly 32 different country as a terrorist. Terrorist is a soldier who had shot 18 years old guy from head 4 times even he had been wounded. Everybody knows what Israel try to do and its strategy in the middle east so they are just trying to legitimize its raid by telling the same statements in your message.

We have agreements on military weapons but I do not know what happens from this moment. Three common military operations cancelled.

100 of those passengers were members of various Muslim brotherhood chapters. At least 20 them had taped themselves on videos by al qaeda as martys before they left. So you tell me was that a peace mission??

Selman, just so you know the chief financial backer of this operation was the Radical Islamic Turkish charity called Insani Yardin Vakfi (IHH). One of its leaders Huwaida Arraf made the flotillas purpose plain and simple on June 19th 2009 press conference. "Its crucial that we continue sending boats to Gaza to challenge Israels closure of the strip" Arraf has long been on record as a supporter of terrorism. In 2002 she urged palestinians to incorporate violence into their strategy. The IHH is even less peaceful. The IHH wanted to bomb Los Angeles airport in 2003. The IHH is banned from Israel because of its ties with the radical islamic group called "Band of Good" Led by Yousef Al Qardawi. And by the way Turkey has arrested many IHH members in the 90's for smuggling weapons to terrorist groups. Today IHH works closely with Hamas.

Selman, maybe war games have been halted between israel and turkey however their weapons research is still on going and they are still delivering weapons to one another. The war games issue was political to calm their own people

[Mahmood07]

What is up with people supporting Israel in this case? stop being biased just because you hate Islam..This has nothing to do with Islam. Since when does someone become a terrorist for fighting israel, thats not called terrorism, its standing up for one's right and fighting for your freedom and homeland. People here are forgetting that Israel is the terrorist state. Open your eyes people:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES...olo/index.html

[ghosthi32]

both the governments of israel and palestine are led by idiots.

[ragingclue]

I don't know why we even take sides. Arm them all to the teeth, wait for a winner, and then make friends with the winner.

[cycler]

Originally Posted by Mahmood07

What is up with people supporting Israel in this case? stop being biased just because you hate Islam..This has nothing to do with Islam. Since when does someone become a terrorist for fighting israel, thats not called terrorism, its standing up for one's right and fighting for your freedom and homeland. People here are forgetting that Israel is the terrorist state. Open your eyes people:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES...olo/index.html

Interesting you say that.....since 90% of the middle east would love to get rid of Israel. Or as the leader of Iran said "wipe Israel of the map". All these muslim countries in the middle east cry for the palestinians however why dont they let them into their countries. I mean why isnt jordan allowing them in or egypt allowing them in. There must be a reason. Furthermore Gaza is on the Egyptian side of Israel and the West bank is on the Jordanian side. Israel won that land in the 67 war which was really started by egypt, jordan and syria which all 3 lost to Israel but thats another story when you are out manned 30-1. Kind of pathetic if you ask me but thats another story for another time. Anyway do you mean to tell me that Palis lived in Egypt and Jordan and then by some miracle the Israelis won that land and now it belongs to them????

Mahmood and if you dont think this is about Islam then either you are smart or delusional. By the way the only muslim country in europe that israel is allies with is France LOL. French riots, spanish bombing, plane hi jackings. hmmm catholics or jews. Sorry wrong religion. Ah I remember now who it was but I wont say it for it might offend islam. Can you imagine if we offend islam?

Oh and just so you know a large islamic foundation based in the Middle East is helping to pay for a HUGE mosque 2 blocks away from Ground Zero in NYC. It will have classrooms, pools, praying sections, restaurants and areas to speak to imams if people would like to learn more about islam (converting them). Right next to GROUND ZERO. Isnt that where 3000+ people were killed by islamic radicals as well as police officers and fire fighters. I think it is. And the libertards of NYC might allow them to build it because if they dont they might offend muslims in NY however the families of 9-11 victims have no say so in this matter. Mahmood my cousin was killed in 9-11. I dont want a mosque there so that everytime I drive by I have to be reminded of what happened there or my aunt has to cry every time she drives by. I dont hate muslims....I just dislike them for the way things are going around in the world. Every time something happens we have to watch out what we say as not to offend you.

[ghosthi32]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

I don't know why we even take sides. Arm them all to the teeth, wait for a winner, and then make friends with the winner.

this

[Mahmood07]

Originally Posted by cycler

Interesting you say that.....since 90% of the middle east would love to get rid of Israel. Or as the leader of Iran said "wipe Israel of the map". All these muslim countries in the middle east cry for the palestinians however why dont they let them into their countries. I mean why isnt jordan allowing them in or egypt allowing them in. There must be a reason. Furthermore Gaza is on the Egyptian side of Israel and the West bank is on the Jordanian side. Israel won that land in the 67 war which was really started by egypt, jordan and syria which all 3 lost to Israel but thats another story when you are out manned 30-1. Kind of pathetic if you ask me but thats another story for another time. Anyway do you mean to tell me that Palis lived in Egypt and Jordan and then by some miracle the Israelis won that land and now it belongs to them????

Mahmood and if you dont think this is about Islam then either you are smart or delusional. By the way the only muslim country in europe that israel is allies with is France LOL. French riots, spanish bombing, plane hi jackings. hmmm catholics or jews. Sorry wrong religion. Ah I remember now who it was but I wont say it for it might offend islam. Can you imagine if we offend islam?

Oh and just so you know a large islamic foundation based in the Middle East is helping to pay for a HUGE mosque 2 blocks away from Ground Zero in NYC. It will have classrooms, pools, praying sections, restaurants and areas to speak to imams if people would like to learn more about islam (converting them). Right next to GROUND ZERO. Isnt that where 3000+ people were killed by islamic radicals as well as police officers and fire fighters. I think it is. And the libertards of NYC might allow them to build it because if they dont they might offend muslims in NY however the families of 9-11 victims have no say so in this matter. Mahmood my cousin was killed in 9-11. I dont want a mosque there so that everytime I drive by I have to be reminded of what happened there or my aunt has to cry every time she drives by. I dont hate muslims....I just dislike them for the way things are going around in the world. Every time something happens we have to watch out what we say as not to offend you.

Remember they are all arab so its about defending fellow Arabs not just because they are muslims. I don't know what 9/11 has to do with this and i see nothing wrong with building a mosque next to ground zero. Im sorry for your loss, but people have to understand that most of the muslim world are against what happened in 9/11 and that their actions doesn't define our religion. What happened to freedom of religion anyways? When i pass a synagogue i dont connect that to what the jews in israel are doing to our people. I dont have anything against jews, just zionists. So don't hate on islam, hate on extremists.

[xbook]

Originally Posted by cycler

Oh and just so you know a large islamic foundation based in the Middle East is helping to pay for a HUGE mosque 2 blocks away from Ground Zero in NYC. It will have classrooms, pools, praying sections, restaurants and areas to speak to imams if people would like to learn more about islam (converting them). Right next to GROUND ZERO.

Isn't there also a strip joint and an adult store within spitting distance of ground zero too?

[cycler]

Originally Posted by xbook

Isn't there also a strip joint and an adult store within spitting distance of ground zero too?

I wish.....but alas with Mayor Bloomberg in office there isnt a stip joint there.

[cycler]

Originally Posted by Mahmood07

Remember they are all arab so its about defending fellow Arabs not just because they are muslims. I don't know what 9/11 has to do with this and i see nothing wrong with building a mosque next to ground zero. Im sorry for your loss, but people have to understand that most of the muslim world are against what happened in 9/11 and that their actions doesn't define our religion. What happened to freedom of religion anyways? When i pass a synagogue i dont connect that to what the jews in israel are doing to our people. I dont have anything against jews, just zionists. So don't hate on islam, hate on extremists.

There is nothing wrong with freedom of religion but I think the world is getting tired of a religion that has caused so much chaos through out the world. Bottom line is this. Those peace activists could have landed in Egypt and avoided all this drama but instead they had to go through Israel with known terrorists sponsered by a terrorist group that is even classified as a terrorist organization in Turkey.

Everywhere you look you cant offend muslims. Everywhere you look we have to be politcally correct otherwise muslims might be offended. The issue that most people on this forum as well as through out the US will not admit to because they are afraid of how they will be viewed is that islam is causing most of the worlds problems. What interests me is this. If infadels say anything about mohamed or draw him they are condemed and a fatwa is issued against them. Take for example Theo Van Gogh. He was murdered because he made a film called Submission about woman in Islam and how they are treated. Say something to offend and you get killed. And werent the writers of south park threatened as well. However its ok for muslims in the middle east to portray films about christians and jews as evil and bringers of disease and death. Its ok for films to be made showing a woman killing israelis. Its ok for jews to be portrayed in films in the middle east showing them killing christians babies for their blood to make food for passover. Now thats funny. I dont see anyone going after those film makers.

[TMNT]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

I don't know why we even take sides. Arm them all to the teeth, wait for a winner, and then make friends with the winner.

We did this already...except we only armed one side.......Israel.

[rgrovr]

The threw the commandos overboard, knifed them, had clubs at the ready to hit them with, stole their guns and used to shoot at the commandos - all before they fought back.

The ship was trying to run the blockade and they were perfectly legal in boarding a ship in international waters if after warnings or repeated failure to hail do not work if the ship attempts to progress through the blockade.

And they plan on stopping more ships that attempt to run the blockade. More power to them.

And to think they could have easily just went to the nearby Egyptian port to deliver their 'humanitarian' goods and none of this would have never happened. When the British put a blockade on us during the War of 1812 - boarding was the least of the worries, they just blew the ships out the water. But eh, we have nice wars now I guess.

[cycler]

Here is a good song. Its a parody of We Are The World but now its called We Con The World. Its making poking fun the floitalla ship as well as Hamas

[cycler]

And I found this on a arabic web site. I thought Palestinians had no food no clothing. I thought they were poor

http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-64161.html

[selman]

Originally Posted by cycler

100 of those passengers were members of various Muslim brotherhood chapters. At least 20 them had taped themselves on videos by al qaeda as martys before they left. So you tell me was that a peace mission??

Selman, just so you know the chief financial backer of this operation was the Radical Islamic Turkish charity called Insani Yardin Vakfi (IHH). One of its leaders Huwaida Arraf made the flotillas purpose plain and simple on June 19th 2009 press conference. "Its crucial that we continue sending boats to Gaza to challenge Israels closure of the strip" Arraf has long been on record as a supporter of terrorism. In 2002 she urged palestinians to incorporate violence into their strategy. The IHH is even less peaceful. The IHH wanted to bomb Los Angeles airport in 2003. The IHH is banned from Israel because of its ties with the radical islamic group called "Band of Good" Led by Yousef Al Qardawi. And by the way Turkey has arrested many IHH members in the 90's for smuggling weapons to terrorist groups. Today IHH works closely with Hamas.

Selman, maybe war games have been halted between israel and turkey however their weapons research is still on going and they are still delivering weapons to one another. The war games issue was political to calm their own people

First of all I want to clarify that IHH-Insani Yardim Vakfi (in english, Humanitarian Relief Foundation) is not a charity association financed by terrorists groups. So could you tell me would any terrorist group need a ship or this kind of campaign to attack Israel even there would be a possibility of getting arrested ? There would be so many different alternative ways and also less risky ones for sure. If one person is a conservative religious man that doesn't mean he is radical or terrorist. Moreover, IHH is working not only in middle east, africa or asia but also in south america, balkans, europe, etc... They send humanitarian aid to people who has been suffering from poverty or aggrieved by wars which is same like in Gaza. I do not know where did you get those information you've stated, maybe it is a smear campaign set up against IHH at public.

Additionally, it is announced ships were checked (even passenger names) by authorized international institution that this ship is carrying only humanitarian aid stuff.

Anyway, ships were coming to Gaza shores not to Israel. Also, it is permitted to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza according to U.N's decisions before and Israel's blockage against Gaza is not acceptable. These are not my words.

[cycler]

Originally Posted by selman

First of all I want to clarify that IHH-Insani Yardim Vakfi (in english, Humanitarian Relief Foundation) is not a charity association financed by terrorists groups. So could you tell me would any terrorist group need a ship or this kind of campaign to attack Israel even there would be a possibility of getting arrested ? There would be so many different alternative ways and also less risky ones for sure. If one person is a conservative religious man that doesn't mean he is radical or terrorist. Moreover, IHH is working not only in middle east, africa or asia but also in south america, balkans, europe, etc... They send humanitarian aid to people who has been suffering from poverty or aggrieved by wars which is same like in Gaza. I do not know where did you get those information you've stated, maybe it is a smear campaign set up against IHH at public.

Additionally, it is announced ships were checked (even passenger names) by authorized international institution that this ship is carrying only humanitarian aid stuff.

Anyway, ships were coming to Gaza shores not to Israel. Also, it is permitted to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza according to U.N's decisions before and Israel's blockage against Gaza is not acceptable. These are not my words.

Look in the mid 90's and you will see the IHH was classified as a terrorist organization the the Turks. They smuggled weapons. On the outside terrorist organizations always attempt to show they are doing good in order to make a smoke screen for their real goals. Regarding the blockade. Israel has every right to check what goes into gaza. I mean Gaza does not have the best reputation right??? Tunnels made from Egypt to Gaza funneling weapons used against the Israelis. So forgive the Israelis when they wanted to make sure nothing was aboard. To be perfectly honest my father and I both spoke about this and both of us said nothing will aboard that ship. Its to obvious. However they could have also docked in Egypt and then given the aid to Gaza. But no....if they go through Israel and Israel does not allow it then it makes the Israelis look like animals. Very well calculated. Furthermore since when are Turks so concerned about Palestinians anyway. It is my understanding that Turks arent to fond of arabs anyway and the only thing an arab is good for is being ruled by a Turk. At least thats what my turkish aquaintances say.