Camber Settings for Track

[lucid]

Post/inquire in the reginal CA forum, and people will point out shops in the area.

[manonfire]

All stock suspension is capable of 1.9+ so if you aren't tracking the car is there really a need for camber plates. On the other hand, if you want the flexibility of adjustments "on the fly" beyond 2.0 then plates are the way to go. TC Kline makes a set and so do some other race proven companies. Not putting down any companies, just mentioning options. On the track I run 2.0. On an autocross circuit I run 2.4 or so. Just my two cents.


- Stay thirsty my friends..

[lucid]

I highly doubt that you will get -1.9 on the stock suspension. Several people have tried, and were only able to get ~-1.3 after removing the pins. If you are lowered significantly, that might be a different story.

[manonfire]

Originally Posted by lucid

I highly doubt that you will get -1.9 on the stock suspension. Several people have tried, and were only able to get ~-1.3 after removing the pins. If you are lowered significantly, that might be a different story.

I got 1.9 on the left front and 1.8 on the right front. Verified and checked by two race shops, one in NJ and one in VA, prior to the camber plates. It is possible. And yes, I am lowered, cup springs only.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by manonfire

I got 1.9 on the left front and 1.8 on the right front. Verified and checked by two race shops, one in NJ and one in VA, prior to the camber plates. It is possible. And yes, I am lowered, cup springs only.

Yep, lowering would change things. When I say stock suspension, I mean stock springs. With those, folks have not been able to get more than -1.3 or so.

[VictorH]

Originally Posted by lucid

Yep, lowering would change things. When I say stock suspension, I mean stock springs. With those, folks have not been able to get more than -1.3 or so.

I can confirm that. All stock e90 M3 just had alignment last week. Asked for max neg camber up front and ended up with -1.0 on the left and -1.2 on the right.
Pre-alignment was -0.5 left and -1.2 right. Car with 6,700 miles, no accidents, no curbs or potholes.

Bottom line:
1) Those of you seeing unequal tire wear, check your alignment first.
2) Max stock alignment negative camber (no lowering) is probably -1.2 to -1.4 range (without pulling pins).
3) We probably need to see more data on track tire temps before deciding what the optimal negative camber is for these vehicles (street tires not R-comp).

[manonfire]

Originally Posted by lucid

Yep, lowering would change things. When I say stock suspension, I mean stock springs. With those, folks have not been able to get more than -1.3 or so.

Yeah, I just had it at this place here in VA. They are doing seats, cage, fire suppressant and adjusting it for the next NASA day in 2 Months! I hate waiting for the next track day.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by manonfire

All stock suspension is capable of 1.9+ so if you aren't tracking the car is there really a need for camber plates. On the other hand, if you want the flexibility of adjustments "on the fly" beyond 2.0 then plates are the way to go. TC Kline makes a set and so do some other race proven companies. Not putting down any companies, just mentioning options. On the track I run 2.0. On an autocross circuit I run 2.4 or so. Just my two cents.


- Stay thirsty my friends..

I don't think TC Kline makes camber plates that'll work with the E92 M3 stock suspension.

[knifegun]

Originally Posted by manonfire

Stay thirsty my friends..

Lol! I love your signature. I am tracking the car which is why I car about camber. Otherwise, no reason to mess with the car.

I will check regarding the 1.9. I don't need anything aggressive as this is not a track only car but I would like to have better handling (i.e. negative front camber) for the track. Especially for Laguna Seca.

BTW, how much does a square setup (keeping the camber the same) change the pushing characteristics of the M3?

[RickyBobby]

Originally Posted by lucid

Let us know if you see any benefit from the additional camber beyond -2.1.

Yes sir there are additional benefits beyond -2.1.
-3 deg is working out great for me.

[von_zoom]

Lucid

Not enough miles on them after the camber plates to tell yet...

Any update to this after some miles? Season is about to start and I have to make some decisions.

Thanks, vz

ps - Season is about to start provided we can get out of the snow........

[lucid]

Originally Posted by von_zoom

Lucid



Any update to this after some miles? Season is about to start and I have to make some decisions.

Thanks, vz

ps - Season is about to start provided we can get out of the snow........

The car's gone. I drove it for ~7000 miles with -2 camber without running into significant uneven wear issues on the street and the track. That strikes me as a happy medium for a street car that will be tracked off and on without worrying about camber re-adjustments.

[STALKER]

I ran -2.1 on my e46 M3 on the street and never had any wear problems. I was running 265 front tire street and 275 for track. Not sure if that translates to the E9X M3, but I imagine I will have the same results.

[von_zoom]

[QUOTEThe car's gone. I drove it for ~7000 miles with -2 camber without running into significant uneven wear issues ..........][/quote]

Gone, I won't even ask.
Thanks
vz

[lucid]

Originally Posted by von_zoom

Gone, I won't even ask.
Thanks
vz

Nothing bad happened. Just traded it in for an M coupe. Will post a comparison later. Don't mean to take this thread off topic...

[STALKER]

For the guys that pulled the front pins, any negative affects so far?
I was discouraged from pulling them from a very reputable race shop.

[gixxer_kidd]

Originally Posted by STALKER

For the guys that pulled the front pins, any negative affects so far?
I was discouraged from pulling them from a very reputable race shop.

Did they say why? I'm also thinking about doing the same.

[STALKER]

Originally Posted by gixxer_kidd

Did they say why? I'm also thinking about doing the same.

Not really, but it was at Kinetic Motorsport, its a serious race shop. Maybe he was just being cautious.
Im thinking of pulling them soon though. They were able to get -1.4 up front with the pins in. They set the rear to -2.
They had the best equipment and took almost 1.5 hours to do the work. They were extremely careful and thorough with the work.

[knifegun]

I had mine pulled and aligned. The car seems to pull to the right on most roads. I had the alignment checked and it was all correct numbers wise. Also, I had the tires swapped and had the same behavior. The explanation given was that the negative front/back camber makes the car more susceptible to the crown in the road.

Do other people notice the same thing? The shop I went to does great work so I am more concerned there could be something up with my car. Overall, the car pushes less and drives great (aside fromt he pull when I let go of the steering wheel).

BTW, when I let go of the steering wheel, the steering wheel stays stable. It does not move so it is not a centering problem.

[manonfire]

Originally Posted by STALKER

Not really, but it was at Kinetic Motorsport, its a serious race shop. Maybe he was just being cautious.
Im thinking of pulling them soon though. They were able to get -1.4 up front with the pins in. They set the rear to -2.
They had the best equipment and took almost 1.5 hours to do the work. They were extremely careful and thorough with the work.

I've had the pins removed for a very long time. I don't drive the car on the road anymore as it is now a dedicated track / autox car, but I've had no issues. With pins pulled and springs alone, I was getting -1.9/-1.8 front and -2.0 rear. I've had the car prepped at numerous race shops and no one has ever said anything about safety or concers..

[Polak]

Pulled the pins and took it in to get aligned today.

Got -1.7 out of the fronts and -1.9 on the rears, could have gone to 2.0-2.1 on the rears but toe couldn't be zero'd out if it went any higher than 1.9.

Went with 1/16th total toe-in on the fronts.

Notes: E90, Driver in car, and Full tank of gas.

[rzm3]

Originally Posted by knifegun

I had mine pulled and aligned. The car seems to pull to the right on most roads. I had the alignment checked and it was all correct numbers wise. Also, I had the tires swapped and had the same behavior. The explanation given was that the negative front/back camber makes the car more susceptible to the crown in the road.

Do other people notice the same thing? The shop I went to does great work so I am more concerned there could be something up with my car. Overall, the car pushes less and drives great (aside fromt he pull when I let go of the steering wheel).

BTW, when I let go of the steering wheel, the steering wheel stays stable. It does not move so it is not a centering problem.

That's a reasonable explanation. Try finding a road that is truly flat to test out if you can.