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      05-12-2010, 06:59 PM   #1
Alpine3
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Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work a

...
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      05-13-2010, 12:39 PM   #2
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Agreed.
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      05-13-2010, 04:12 PM   #3
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There is a SIGNIFICANT difference between those who WOULD not, and those who CAN not. We have decided as a society to care for those who CAN not.

Some of us are opposed to carrying the burden of those who WOULD not but are indeed ABLE-BODIED enough to work.
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      05-13-2010, 05:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine3 View Post
"Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not" Thomas Jefferson (supposedly) ...Do you agree with that quote and how does it relate to our current politics?
Agreed, but what makes you think that quote has anything to do with the currentl political landscape?

If you think our economy is the way it is because of people who will not work you got another thing coming.
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      05-13-2010, 06:12 PM   #5
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Nope, not agreed. you are taking words from someone's mouth that never lived in our modern society. There weren't things like weekends (yes saturday and sunday existed, but you didn't get them off), women couldn't vote, you owned people (literally), you had to pay for the fire department to come save your house when it was on fire. Times have changed significantly, and I don't that quote is that useful in today's political or societal landscape.
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      05-13-2010, 08:06 PM   #6
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Nobody likes a dole bludger but I'm curious what you propose we do with those who are unwilling if the government stops taking care of them.
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      05-14-2010, 08:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine3 View Post
yeah you are right, but my assignment was "if in fact this statement is true, how does it relate to the current politics" i wrote a whole paper on it, basically saying that its true when it comes to health care and welfare..i basically think that those who are not willing to work should not benefit from those who are wiling (nothing against those who are not able to work) . It's just that so many people abuse our welfare system. Those who work pay taxes and those who are not willing to work benefit from those same taxes. They think it's ok for them not to work and recieve welfare. This actually discourages them to work. In my opinion of course.
How about we go back to bartering and crop sharing?
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      05-14-2010, 10:40 AM   #8
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Just because someone supports social programs and the expansion of the safety net doesn't make them opposed to eliminating corruption within those programs. I fully support benefits for those who need them, as well as improvements in the system to prevent abuse of said programs. I think the abuse factor is extremely overstated. Food stamps are one of the most succesful social programs in history, they generate something like $1.7 of economic activity for every dollar invested. Can you buy liquer for foodstamps in some trampy parts of the country? Probably. However that does not mean that the program itself is unsuccesful or that it should be scrapped.
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      05-14-2010, 10:50 AM   #9
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"I think the abuse factor is extremely overstated. Food stamps are one of the most succesful social programs in history"
This is no overstatement, and I'm just one person: Last Christmas I'm in a hurry to BUY some itmes to make pumpkin pies. I get in a line behind an older lady with 8-10 bottles of juice thinking "she'll be fast thru the line" The cashier has to ring them up in pairs, because that's all the food stamp will allow. OK, it's Christmas, I should be more patient with those who are less fortunate at this time of year (and any time really) She gets done and rolls out her cart. I pay for my can of pumpkin and pie shells and hustle out the door to see her loading the bottles into an SL500 with dealer tags!!!!!!

My office is in the back of a public housing building. I constantly see "customers" checking on their housing status rolling 22s on Navigators etc. When I ask the case workers, "the car is my mom's" Well then, help your daughter rent a room. It's so BS the amount of corruption of what is desinged to be a SAFETY NET, not a way of life.

One of the big plusses for Meg Whitman right now. (although there are plenty of negatives to balance it out)
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      05-14-2010, 10:53 AM   #10
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Human nature will always ruin any "safety net" concept.
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      05-14-2010, 12:27 PM   #11
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Consider this... majority of those on food stamps.. run cash businesses or work for cash only. DO NOT PAY TAXES and wouldn't know how to if they had to. Most don't even want a real check because if they did they would lose their housing/WIC.

They build their life around public housing and food stamps. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

The post about the navi may seem far fetched, and it is most definitely not the norm. But, you would think if someone lives in public housing they would not be able to afford a car, yet all of the projects I know are filled with cars. And to no ones surprise, 50% of the cars have rims on em..
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      05-14-2010, 01:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine3 View Post
lol idk its such a sensitive issue..I suggest for the government to just look more into this issue, like lower the time limit a person can stay on welfare and find these people like low class government jobs or something..then they wouldnt have the excuse of "oh no one's hiring" ...its just a real complicated issue lol
Example, I have an immediate family member who refuses to get a job and same goes for his wife, because if they do they will loose "affordable housing" benefit and loose their 3 bedroom condo, which cost less than a studio in my area. Plus they feel there is no need for a job since now they are getting more money from the government since they just had a second child! Yes it frustrates the hell out of me when I know he is more than capable of getting and holding down a decent job but has become comfortable with what soceity is offering them for doing nothing!
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      05-14-2010, 02:06 PM   #13
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Infuriating, RambleJ. Do these people realize that people WORKED to earn the money they're living on? They are taking that portion of these people's lives.
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      05-15-2010, 09:45 AM   #14
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Infuriating, RambleJ. Do these people realize that people WORKED to earn the money they're living on? They are taking that portion of these people's lives.
I'm sure they realize it. They just don't give a shit.
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      05-17-2010, 10:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
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I'm sure they realize it. They just don't give a shit.
BINGO!!!!
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      05-18-2010, 01:10 PM   #16
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I'm sure they realize it. They just don't give a shit.
I don't know- I think many don't, since they don't work themselves. I think many of them think it just comes from some kind of government infinite source of money.
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      05-19-2010, 02:37 PM   #17
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It hardly relates. This quote is not about providing the poorest among us with the bare minimum necessities. It is about paying taxes and dues to royalty (who do not work).
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      06-20-2010, 12:08 PM   #18
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just found this thread. finally we can have an interesting conversation on this forum.

this country is a fucking joke. How we've lasted this long is beyond me. People wonder why we're the most hated country in the world.
Ramblej, the really pathetic part of that story is that their children will be brought up with the same mentality and get this county even more fucked up.
There is no reason why anyone should ever say "no ones hiring." if no one's hiring, you're not looking hard enough.
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      06-20-2010, 02:12 PM   #19
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It is my opinion that able bodied people who claim unemployment/welfare and make no effort to find a job should be required to provide community service. This would create jobs within lower government to run the program and at the same time make our streets and towns cleaner, our American flags taken down before the storms, potholes filled in, graffiti removed and other menial jobs taken care of.
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      06-20-2010, 02:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMNT View Post
Agreed, but what makes you think that quote has anything to do with the currentl political landscape?

If you think our economy is the way it is because of people who will not work you got another thing coming.
True, the only reason why the dollar is worth something is because the american people prop it up by working.

The other side of the coin is the few has stolen the labor of the many by economic policies; central banking and fiat-based currency. It is up to us to realize that.

Here is another quote to ponder: "Freedom takes constant vigilance"

We (America) is fat and happy and not being vigilant enough and letting people (who outwardly seem to be good and working for the cause of the American people, but inwardly working for their own will) make decisions about how things are run.
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      06-20-2010, 02:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayabusa55 View Post
It hardly relates. This quote is not about providing the poorest among us with the bare minimum necessities. It is about paying taxes and dues to royalty (who do not work).

It's the ones who make the money (private central banks) we should be worried about. They print all the money they want and are greedy. They have control of the money, not the American people. As long as central banks are in place and have no oversight we will not have a sustainable economy.
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      06-25-2010, 04:54 PM   #22
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First was the Alpha male when we are almost a tribe of monkeys

Then the emperors.

Then the kings.

Then the dictators.

Then the presidents.

Now the bankers.

Next? ... same old shit.
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