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      05-16-2010, 03:22 PM   #45
edlin303
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I would go with the BBK. Yes, it will depreciate, but neither choice is a good _investment_ IMO. I will get more actual enjoyment from the BBKs (and the M as a whole), whereas the Panerai will do the same thing my $100 one will, with an acceptable margin of error.

As for the discussion of if the BMW is a luxury item like the Panerai, it is not a good comparison. The difference in function from an Accord to an M3 is huge. From a Panerai to a Timex, not a large functional difference. The M is a luxury item, but you are also getting function for the $ you are paying. A nice timepiece on the other hand, is much more about appearance than function.

I agree that it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks other than the OP. I don't ever see buying a timepiece for myself worth more than a few hundred dollars, but I don't hang with a crowd that expects me to either. In fact, if many of them knew that watch was worth more than a few hundred, I would be surprised.

On the other hand, owning the M has nothing to do with what others think for me. I bought it because I like to enjoy what I drive. If it was ugly and neon green, I would enjoy it just the same.

Just my $0.02
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      05-16-2010, 03:41 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by edlin303 View Post
I would go with the BBK. Yes, it will depreciate, but neither choice is a good _investment_ IMO. I will get more actual enjoyment from the BBKs (and the M as a whole), whereas the Panerai will do the same thing my $100 one will, with an acceptable margin of error.

As for the discussion of if the BMW is a luxury item like the Panerai, it is not a good comparison. The difference in function from an Accord to an M3 is huge. From a Panerai to a Timex, not a large functional difference. The M is a luxury item, but you are also getting function for the $ you are paying. A nice timepiece on the other hand, is much more about appearance than function.

I agree that it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks other than the OP. I don't ever see buying a timepiece for myself worth more than a few hundred dollars, but I don't hang with a crowd that expects me to either. In fact, if many of them knew that watch was worth more than a few hundred, I would be surprised.

On the other hand, owning the M has nothing to do with what others think for me. I bought it because I like to enjoy what I drive. If it was ugly and neon green, I would enjoy it just the same.

Just my $0.02
So funny to read these posts that are almost mirror images of the trash the narrow-minded watch guys say about car lovers.

It really boils down to "getting it" or not. Funny how in your mind the difference between an Accord and an M3 is huge, but any watch is just a watch. Gee, I wonder if you're into cars or watches?

A BMW gets you from A to B about the same as any other car. Yes, it has attributes I love (why I own one) but it's "transportation" to most people. Some people love the "magic" that comes from hundreds of tiny pieces humming along together and keeping time well within the COSC standard. Others say, I'll take a quartz Casio or use my cell phone. Psst, it's not just about telling time. But again, whatever floats your boat. Just try to be tolerant of others with hobbies different than yours. I can only imagine this tread if the choice was a custom pistol or a BBK.

Love your last point the best. Your friends wouldn't know how expensive your watch might be, but you drive an M3 just to please yourself. Not looking for a status symbol even a little bit?
Aside from Rolex, that plasters the world with ads, the best watches on the planet have zero name recognition with 99.9% of the public. I'd say someone wearing one of those is a guy that really doesn't care what others think of his possessions, especially compared to the average BMW owner.

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      05-16-2010, 03:57 PM   #47
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BBK! Car already has a clock.

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      05-16-2010, 04:03 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by BigHat View Post
So funny to read these posts that are almost mirror images of the trash the narrow-minded watch guys say about car lovers.

It really boils down to "getting it" or not. Funny how in your mind the difference between an Accord and an M3 is huge, but a watch is just a watch. Gee, I wonder if you're into cars or watches?

A BMW gets you from A to B about the same as any other car. Yes, it has attributes I love (why I own one) but it's "transportation" to most people. Some people love the "magic" that comes from hundreds of tiny pieces humming along together and keeping time well within the COSC standard. Others say, I'll take a quartz Casio or use my cell phone. Psst, it's not just about telling time. But again, whatever floats your boat. Just try to be tolerant of others with hobbies different than yours. I can only imagine this tread if the choice was a custom pistol or a BBK.

Love your last point the best. Your friends wouldn't know how expensive your watch might be, but you drive an M3 just to please yourself. Not looking for a status symbol even a little bit?
Aside from Rolex, that plasters the world with ads, the best watches on the planet have zero name recognition with 99.9% of the public. I'd say someone wearing one of those is a guy that really doesn't care what others think of what he has over the average BMW owner.
My point on the watch not being recognized, was this: If it does the same for me as a $100 (or $5) watch, and noone knows it's not a $100 watch, then it comes down to cosmetic differences to me. Either will tell me time. A $10,000 watch won't tell me time faster, or better, or anything else as it relates to it's function as a watch. It will just tell me time. Now I am not saying cosmetic factors does not have value. Many people like expensive jewellery, and that is their choice. It just doesn't provide a function in my mind. And as I said in my last post, all that matters is one's own mind. I am not suggesting the OP decide based on my mind. He simply asked our opinions.

With the car, if noone has any idea what it is, I am fine with that. In fact, that is why until now I drove an STi, the best performance I felt like paying for, with no glamour. With the M3, driving it makes all of my driving a whole different experience than an Accord would. It can get me places faster and safer. It enables me to do things an Accord could not. I can take it out just for the purpose of using it, not to get from A to B, but to get from A to A with as many hills and curves as possible in between. In the specific instance of this thread, better brakes will make him safer.

I wasn't aware people got out their watch and took it for a spin on weekends to enjoy it. If they do, well, I guess to each their own. But being that this is a car forum, don't be surprised that many of us don't understand the appeal of that.

Come to think of it, maybe the OP should post this on a watch forum as well. I would love to see some insight into why they would pick a watch.
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      05-16-2010, 04:38 PM   #49
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I wasn't aware people got out their watch and took it for a spin on weekends to enjoy it. If they do, well, I guess to each their own. But being that this is a car forum, don't be surprised that many of us don't understand the appeal of that.

Come to think of it, maybe the OP should post this on a watch forum as well. I would love to see some insight into why they would pick a watch.
I think I already given you a realistic idea. I've seen a hundred of those threads. In general terms it falls out like this for those that have the same depth of appreciation for cars as you do watches:

1. Buying an expensive car is stupid, the minute you drive it off the lot you lose 20%. You're lucky if you can get half your money back after a few years. A stupid, vain purchase.

2. Buying a nice mechanical watch is something you and then your son or daughter can enjoy for decades. A car? Trash in 10 years.

Of course, lots of people understand the attraction of cars, guns, watches, cameras, etc and just accept each for what it is and go with the flow as their personal tastes dictate. There appears to me (based on hobby site observation only) that many more people owning expensive watches also are into nice cars than vice versa. If one can own $100K plus worth of watches it usually means enough income to have more than one hobby or focus.

As far as a request for advice on a BBK or a Panny in a watch forum? The most common answer would certainly be one of these two: 1) WTF is a BBK? 2) Are you high?

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      05-16-2010, 04:58 PM   #50
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Guys, you need to chill. No need to argue about differing appreciation of different luxury items. Different strokes for different folks, easy as that.


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      05-16-2010, 05:07 PM   #51
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Quote:
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I think I already given you a realistic idea. I've seen a hundred of those threads. In general terms it falls out like this for those that have the same depth of appreciation for cars as you do watches:

1. Buying an expensive car is stupid, the minute you drive it off the lot you lose 20%. You're lucky if you can get half your money back after a few years. A stupid, vain purchase.

2. Buying a nice mechanical watch is something you and then your son or daughter can enjoy for decades. A car? Trash in 10 years.

Of course, lots of people understand the attraction of cars, guns, watches, cameras, etc and just accept each for what it is and go with the flow as their personal tastes dictate. There appears to me (based on hobby site observation only) that many more people owning expensive watches also are into nice cars than vice versa. If one can own $100K plus worth of watches it usually means enough income to have more than one hobby or focus.

As far as a request for advice on a BBK or a Panny in a watch forum? The most common answer would certainly be one of these two: 1) WTF is a BBK? 2) Are you high?
Ok, 1 & 2 make it a bit clearer to me. Watch people look at it as an investment and/or heirloom, and see cars as a depreciating investment. That makes more sense than them thinking an M3 is the same as an Accord. I suspect the same people would choose a nice watch over a dream vacation, since it does not hold any residual value either.

I am much more interested in instant gratification, so the car makes more sense to me. I have no illusions it will be worth much when I am done with it, but am willing to pay the monthly bill as the cost of my driving enjoyment.

On the other hand, I personally place very little value in collectible items, so that helps explain why I am not a fan of watches I guess. As you said, being able to afford one usually means you can afford the other. It just isn't anything that has called out to me I guess.
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      05-16-2010, 05:10 PM   #52
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Ok, 1 & 2 make it a bit clearer to me. Watch people look at it as an investment and/or heirloom, and see cars as a depreciating investment. That makes more sense than them thinking an M3 is the same as an Accord. I suspect the same people would choose a nice watch over a dream vacation, since it does not hold any residual value either.

I am much more interested in instant gratification, so the car makes more sense to me. I have no illusions it will be worth much when I am done with it, but am willing to pay the monthly bill as the cost of my driving enjoyment.

On the other hand, I personally place very little value in collectible items, so that helps explain why I am not a fan of watches I guess. As you said, being able to afford one usually means you can afford the other. It just isn't anything that has called out to me I guess.
Agree completely, to each his own. Pretty much what I was trying to say... That and how we see life makes total sense to us, be not necessarily others.
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      05-16-2010, 05:11 PM   #53
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*edit* quoted post is gone, so nevermind.
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      05-16-2010, 05:12 PM   #54
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i am a watch nut and a car nut:
however, i think panerai's are nearly on there way out, another few years and the fad is done as far as i am concerned.
i own a black seal and still love it...if you will always appreciate it, then get it by all means, but if your buying a panerai because its instantly recognizable i think the fad will die out soon...and honestly, the panerai is no watchmakers dream, it is really quite basic. but simple and big is nice sometimes.
if you could stretch to an iwc big pilots, do it...
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      05-16-2010, 06:22 PM   #55
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I'd get the Panerai, although that isn't my preferred model.

Though +1 on the IWC comment.
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      05-16-2010, 06:38 PM   #56
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I like the look of Panerai but I don't like the fact that most of their watches use generic ETA movements. I know their higher end watches don't, but if you're going to be spending $15k for a watch I think you'd be better off with an Audemars ROO.
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      05-16-2010, 08:44 PM   #57
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      05-16-2010, 08:45 PM   #58
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I'd go for the BBK
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      05-16-2010, 09:32 PM   #59
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Pam

Although if its a rad that you are looking for I would try to find a 190. I know its not pvd it has a very special movement.
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      05-16-2010, 10:41 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niqui View Post
i am a watch nut and a car nut:
however, i think panerai's are nearly on there way out, another few years and the fad is done as far as i am concerned.
i own a black seal and still love it...if you will always appreciate it, then get it by all means, but if your buying a panerai because its instantly recognizable i think the fad will die out soon...and honestly, the panerai is no watchmakers dream, it is really quite basic. but simple and big is nice sometimes.
if you could stretch to an iwc big pilots, do it...
Funny you say this.

I too thought that the whole over sized watch craze that started a few years ago would die out, but it hasn't. Now most Panerais are like 44mm so that isn't too big unlike some stupid Jacob & Co or Grahamn's that are 48-56mm+!

Panerai has had an amazing resurgence in the past 10 years, i do not see the brand dying out anytime soon at all. It has arguablly the most loyal followers, "Panerisiti" than any other brand. Additionally considering that most Panerais are made in 1000-2000 piece runs per year, they really aren't as played out as some suggest.

Lastly, someone was arguing the whole M3/Accord thing and mentioned what;s the difference from a Panerai to a Timex? Bull shit, A) Timex'es are cheap quartz p.o.s.'s and B) are made by machines, Panerais are automatic or manual movements and are hand made in very limited quantities. I too agree that when drivers of high end cars call out people on expensive watch purchases, is really no different than just buying an economical Honda or Toyota.
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      05-16-2010, 10:43 PM   #61
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I like the look of Panerai but I don't like the fact that most of their watches use generic ETA movements. I know their higher end watches don't, but if you're going to be spending $15k for a watch I think you'd be better off with an Audemars ROO.
The PAM 292 is $8,000, and I have an AP ROO which coincidentally has a JLC movement not an manufacturer AP movement. Not all AP's have in house movements.
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      05-16-2010, 10:50 PM   #62
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Had a discussion with a friend recently about how cars are just a big waste of money. Any car you'll get from 10000+ will get you from point A to point B and in real life ppl drive pretty much same speeds (+7 over limit) if you look at it from a big picture perspective. And.... I do not necessary agree with him on that, at least with all of his arguments...But!

Expensive (5K+) watches are something that i really never understood, specially if the owner has to decide whether or not to purchase the piece..... soooooo...

I would say if you don't want to save the money buy the breaks.
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      05-16-2010, 10:51 PM   #63
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if you could stretch to an iwc big pilots, do it...
............
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      05-16-2010, 10:56 PM   #64
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Get both!!!!
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      05-16-2010, 11:12 PM   #65
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Get both!!!!
x2 to that!
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      05-16-2010, 11:17 PM   #66
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Ok, so I just looked up the 292 and it looks about as sophisticated as a $12 Timex from Wal-Mart. How the flagnog are they justifying $10K for that ugly piece of shit? Seriously.
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