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      12-12-2009, 11:29 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider View Post
I don't think you'd find DCT boring at the Nurburgring, especially while downshifting while hard braking. There's a reason all serious GT racers use sequential gearboxes these days.
True, if the car is used often on the track, then I would get the M-DCT. This car is my daily and 99% street driving, so I have the 6MT, just not to be too bored on the road.
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      12-13-2009, 12:13 AM   #46
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I don't think you'd find DCT boring at the Nurburgring, especially while downshifting while hard braking. There's a reason all serious GT racers use sequential gearboxes these days.
So I take it you drive your car on on the Ring' at least twice a week?

I've had to live with both, and live in Miami, and I don't regret picking the MT. Yes, DCT has an obvious advantage. Consistency, fast shifts, launch control, but in reality, we use these cars in the street, to commute, and have some fun while doing it. If I had to do it all over again, I'd pick MT yet again. I find it fun to row the tranny, rev match, and doing it all thru my skills, not paddle shifting.
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      12-13-2009, 02:08 AM   #47
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So I take it you drive your car on on the Ring' at least twice a week?

I've had to live with both, and live in Miami, and I don't regret picking the MT. Yes, DCT has an obvious advantage. Consistency, fast shifts, launch control, but in reality, we use these cars in the street, to commute, and have some fun while doing it. If I had to do it all over again, I'd pick MT yet again. I find it fun to row the tranny, rev match, and doing it all thru my skills, not paddle shifting.
I just moved from Germany. Spent 5 years there and was only 1.2 hours from the ring (at my usual 130+ mph autobahn cruising speed anyway). My Z4 M has been on the ring many times. I bought my M3 here. I also owned a TT 3.2 DSG (moderately modified to undo what Audi did to dumb down the steering/suspension) and it was far more fun on the ring than anything else I've driven there. I would have ordered DCT with my Z4 M if only BMW saw fit to have optioned it. Perhaps even SMG. Paddle shifting is way fun. But I have both so I get to play both ways...
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      12-13-2009, 02:43 AM   #48
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This is exactly why I prefer the SMG and the Lambo EGear to the DCT and PDK in the Porsche. I love the jerkiness when the car shifts during full acceleration. With each shift, you're being slammed in the back rest so hard, love that feeling.
Lambo eGear, just look at how Jeremy Clarkson is pushed back at 2:55.
I noticed that same thing when driving a DCT car. It's just too bad the 6MT gear box in the E9x series is not as good as Audi's or Porsche's 6MT. If it was, I would have 0 complaints.

Ferrari's 430 F1 gearbox, and now the Lexus's LFA single clutch system is pure bliss.
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      12-13-2009, 11:31 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider View Post
I just moved from Germany. Spent 5 years there and was only 1.2 hours from the ring (at my usual 130+ mph autobahn cruising speed anyway). My Z4 M has been on the ring many times. I bought my M3 here. I also owned a TT 3.2 DSG (moderately modified to undo what Audi did to dumb down the steering/suspension) and it was far more fun on the ring than anything else I've driven there. I would have ordered DCT with my Z4 M if only BMW saw fit to have optioned it. Perhaps even SMG. Paddle shifting is way fun. But I have both so I get to play both ways...
Wow. Must be fun. I've never had a chance to visit Germany, but when I do Autobahn and the Ring are my priorities.

Anyway, my point was that most of us buy these cars for daily driving; meaning there's no tracks or auto-x involved. With that in mind, its our personal preference to which transmission is better. I don't think BMW went out to design the perfect transmission for the ultimate car, I think they put out another option, that'll be perfect for those who like it, and a 6 spd, for those who have always thought that there's nothing better than shifting thru the gears, rev matching with heel and toe techniques. Yes DCT is a faster transmission, you can downshift in the middle of an apex in a track too. It'll make you feel like a race car driver. But are you a race car driver? ARE YOU on a race car? I think the single biggest benefit (even more than what I stated before) is the ability to go in Automatic on a DCT (YES! I SAID AUTOMATIC!) For those who don't like to admit themselves that a DCT is an automatic transmission, well you're all wrong. Its a conventional automatic? NO; but does it automatically shift thru gears? YES!
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      12-14-2009, 01:56 AM   #50
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I just went down the DCT road back in April and drove the car inside out for 3000 kms. I had the pleasure of driving a friends E92 M3 6sp and was hooked! The 6sp totally brings out a different character of the M3 and it seems as if it is the only transmission that is right for it.
Traded the dct for an 08 6sp , for which I got a really good deal. So take it from someone who has driven / owned the dct and is now going the 6sp way. It is totally worth it.
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      12-14-2009, 04:17 AM   #51
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Wow since someone revived this thread I'll post in it.

Theres one single reason I chose the 6MT. Sheer driving pleasure
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      12-14-2009, 11:33 AM   #52
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Why I chose a 6MT (in order of importance)

1. Inertia (I've always had MTs)

2. I suck at driving automatics, when I rent a car I quite often do a "phantom" de-clutch when stopping resulting in me hitting the brake pedal with my braking foot as well as my clutch foot, resulting in unintended rapid deceleration and my passengers thinking I'm an idiot.

3. $3900 savings, invested in new wheels.

4. Reduced weight. In my opinion while it is awesome, the car feels heavy enough already.

4. Numerous threads on this site complaining about major issues with DCT and at the time they were not being improved by software upgrades.

5.Don't want my wife to drive my car (an M3 should not be driven as slow as she drives IMO).

6. Could not get a test drive in a DCT M3. Did test drive a TC-SST Mitsubishi Evo 10, did not like the experience. One thing I found there was a lag between pressing the throttle from a stop or crawl to starting to accelerate which could have been dangerous in a merging situation. I don't know if this is similar to DCT lag posted on this forum but concerning.

7. I have never felt the slightest inconvenience driving an MT in traffic thus no traffic argument for me to get DCT.

8. I don't want my descendants to start evolving without a left leg.



Reasons I have considered DCT/Regretted not getting DCT.



1. In car footage of F1 racers pounding a semi-auto gearbox.

2. Better option for me as a newbie at the track. No need to worry about the Money Shift.

3. Superior performance option.

4. would not have got sea sick when I let my wife's cousin drive the car, he could not figure the clutch out at all.
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      01-09-2010, 04:06 AM   #53
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I chose DCT because I cannot afford all the tickets I would be getting with the 6MT...
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      01-09-2010, 04:54 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
Hi!!

I know this has been discussed, but I was wondering if the people that are choosing the DCT can summarize the reason of their decision.
I have always been a MT person, and really get bored when I don't have a clutch, but if there are reasonable facts maybe I will have to go for the DCT. For example, the launch control feature is something I really would like to have.
1. Unbelievable gear changes with DCT. DCT transforms the M3 into supercar territory as far as feel is concerned! Chalk and cheese compared to manual and I've had both.
2. Quicker than manual every time
3. Wheel spin changing into 2nd and 3rd gear everytime
4. Convenience of auto when you holding a phone, etc
5. Chilled in auto when driving with wife and kids, and trust me that's a plus. Wife hated my 6 manual, Challenge CS, GT2 etc.
6. DCT better than any other paddle transmission!
7. Can be driven better than a manual.
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      01-09-2010, 12:52 PM   #55
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The real question here really is, which one is better, 6MT or DCT?














just joking guys!
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      01-09-2010, 02:02 PM   #56
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I think that the Mayans predicted that on the 13,000th DCT vs 6MT thread the world would end. We're like at what, 12,500 or so?
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      05-16-2010, 04:22 PM   #57
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I chose DCT because I cannot afford all the tickets I would be getting with the 6MT...
Im ordering an M3 and i was going manual all the way untill i read your post. it made me think, being in NY that just might be suicidal. Ill end up getting my license revoked. If i had an auto, i wouldnt be pressing the gas at all, but if it was a manual i'd be recieving multiple infractions on the regular.....

decisions, decisions... What to do..... Living in queens, commuting to the city..... MT doesnt make any sense.... My brain says no, my heart says yes. fuck.
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      05-16-2010, 04:56 PM   #58
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1. I LOVE the relentless acceleration the DCT offers - no loss of forward momentum with gear changes. Puts a huge smile on my face every time.

2. I LOVE that the car is never unsettled during shifts. Those with track experience, especially racing or at least with a stopwatch involved, will recognize the supreme value of smooth driving and not unnecessarily unsettling the weight shifts of the car. Now it is true that if one is really good at using a MT, especially heel/toe downshifting, this can be accomplished without a DCT, but the DCT is perfectly consistent, while no human is. Having become very very good at driving a MT and doing it smoothly while driving as fast as I can on a track, I actually marvel at how incredibly well the DCT does this. For example, the track I practice on actually gets slow enough to permit me to downshift into first gear on the last turn before the straight-away, which is something virtually nobody does in their MTs (and which some have wrecked their MTs trying because of letting the clutch out too early), and that provides a significant advantage.

3. Better fuel economy. If the M3 is your daily driver, this helps with a little of the guilt of driving this gas guzzler. I can enjoy the advantages of the DCT effortlessly shifting for optimal economy, and then, with the flip of a paddle, get all the aggression out of the engine that I want.

4. Best of both worlds. If engaging the clutch yourself is orgasmic to you, this won't mean much, but if not, then the loss of engaging the clutch yourself may be more or less offset by the convenience of having an automatic in the right situations. At the same time, you're not going to be taking any hits in performance when you want to drive aggressively or on the track.

5. If I wanted a raw sportscar experience, I wouldn't be getting an M3. From my perspective, the DCT suites the whole M3 experience well. This is a sedan/coupe that is engineered to be sporty and not a purpose-built sportscar from the ground up. Its my daily driver including sole winter car. It comfortably sits 4 adults, conveniently accepts front and read facing child seats, and is loaded with noise insulation, heavy features, a relatively high ctr of gravity, and too much technology getting in the way of steering-feel, etc. A DCT is a very reasonable option in a car that is supposed to be a jack-of-all trades, IMO. Would you get a MT in your mini-van? If yes, then the DCT is definitely not for you. If not, then this line of reasoning may appeal to you in some way.
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      05-16-2010, 04:57 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiemyster View Post
Im ordering an M3 and i was going manual all the way untill i read your post. it made me think, being in NY that just might be suicidal. Ill end up getting my license revoked. If i had an auto, i wouldnt be pressing the gas at all, but if it was a manual i'd be recieving multiple infractions on the regular.....

decisions, decisions... What to do..... Living in queens, commuting to the city..... MT doesnt make any sense.... My brain says no, my heart says yes. fuck.
Your theory that you "won't be press the gas" with DCT is flawed. An M3 with a MT or DCT is a felony reckless driving citation waiting to happen. Likewise, either transmission driven sanely on city streets is no serious cause for concern.

There are a plenty of reasons to favor one tranny over the other, but probability of tickets "ain't" one of them.
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      05-16-2010, 05:34 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by VanM3Lover View Post
This is exactly why I prefer the SMG and the Lambo EGear to the DCT and PDK in the Porsche. I love the jerkiness when the car shifts during full acceleration. With each shift, you're being slammed in the back rest so hard, love that feeling.
Lambo eGear, just look at how Jeremy Clarkson is pushed back at 2:55.
But because of this jerkiness, you would not be able to shift in long sweeper turns without spinning out (assuming driving at the limit). With DCT, you can actually shift in long turns, because it does not unsettle the car, so there is no need to enter such turns in higher gear. Of course, it is irrelevant outside of a track.

Oh, and you can always simulate the SMG jerks by lifting and then stomping the throttle
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      05-16-2010, 05:38 PM   #61
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The performance differences and shift time differences between the two transmissions is moot. Take two identical M3s, one with a 6 speed and 1 with a DCT to the track and let two drivers take them around the track. The driver that is faster in the 6 speed will also be faster in the DCT and each drivers times with both cars will be very similar.

Once you get rid of the clutch the technology that is doing the shifting is incidental. The transmssion either shifts well or it doesn't and whether it is a DCT, an SMG or a "conventional" automatic with planetary gears or a midget in the trunk that is responding to signals sent from the paddles is incidental.

As far as I am concerned if it can shift automatically it is an automatic transmission. Calling it an "automated manual" of a "manually controlled automatic" is a discussion of semantics not technology.

Transmission choice is strictly a matter of personal preference. There are very good and very bad drivers who drive both types and a good driver will be able to get the car to perform with either transmission.

As for the "my left foot needs something to do" argument, F1 drivers and many ALMS drivers left foot brake.

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      05-16-2010, 06:20 PM   #62
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a midget in the trunk that is responding to signals sent from the paddles

CA
What is the ordering code for that and is it covered under the 4/50k maintenance plan?
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      05-16-2010, 06:34 PM   #63
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What is the ordering code for that and is it covered under the 4/50k maintenance plan?



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      05-16-2010, 09:05 PM   #64
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they arent even putting manuals in lambos and ferraris, MT is old technology, i have MT in my 335 sick of it, cant wait for the dct its like playing a video game so much fun
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      05-17-2010, 06:07 AM   #65
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Apparently all have their criteria that results in a choice of one transmission type over the other. Having extensive experience with both manuals and automatics and appreciating the pros and cons of both, the choice for the M3 has already been made after driving M3s equipped with both MT and DCT.

Criteria based on personal preferences.

1. Which demands greater driver involvement?
2. Which is more reliable?

Aspects such as marginally faster shifts with an automatic, seamless shifts, are not compelling reasons for me to opt for DCT. Why not? Because the miniscule per cent of time the vehicle would be driven when that fraction of second quicker shifting with DCT would be tapped simply gets dwarfed into relative insignificance by the magnitude of driver involvement (two feet + two hands) that is constant.

While some DCT owners haven't had the experiences of others who have had the dubious pleasure of dragging their M3 repeatedly to service centers for this or that bit of work thanks to DCT acting up, I have absolutely no desire to make any trips to a service due to transmission ailments. For those of you that live near a service center, it isn't that much of an inconvenience, but for some people who aren't exactly within an hour's drive (one way) to a service center, the DCT would be a royal pain in the a$$ thanks to warning messages advising to take it in for service as experienced by some owners.

Regardless, even if DCT were ever to achieve the reliability, maintenance free level of the "antiquated" manuals, item #1 of my criteria would still present me with a huge obstacle to overcome. Yes, I realize that automatics appear to have a hold the future, and that too could be another reason to go the manual route in 2010 since the manuals could be gone in the near future.

Last edited by Eau Rouge; 05-17-2010 at 06:39 AM.
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      05-17-2010, 06:31 AM   #66
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1. I LOVE the relentless acceleration the DCT offers - no loss of forward momentum with gear changes. Puts a huge smile on my face every time.

2. I LOVE that the car is never unsettled during shifts.
I have said before that I wish we could combine S4/S5 blipped downshifts with S1/S2 perfectly smooth upchanges. If you use S4/S5, the thump on full throttle upshifts can upset the car. I have never understood why BMW have chosen to engineer in this artificial thump until reading this thread. Now I see that quite a few people really like the thump. On the downshifts, the blipped ones are perfect for track use, but the harsh upshifts are too high a price to pay in order to get the perfect downshifts, in my opinion.

Currently, I am compromising by using S1, and using Heel and Toe for smoother downshifts - this seems a ridiculous compromise with such a sophisticated transmission, but it works. In a couple of days I am getting my third software update to ISTA/P 37.2, because I read on this forum that it reduces the harshness of the S4/S5 upchanges. (First software update got rid of the not down-changing under heavy braking fault, second update got rid of the 'lag' - both done under warranty. This update I am paying for, quoted 120 ($180) because there is no specific fault to deal with.)

I love driving a manual, but in spite of the software updates I am delighted I chose DCT. I consider the DCT to be a genius transmission, and as others have said I also consider that it suits the character of the car well. If you want the ultimate touchy-feely driving sensation, then the M3 is probably not the car to give it to you whichever transmission you choose.
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