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      02-26-2007, 11:13 AM   #1
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More M3 News - 420hp DSG M3

Here's somemore M3 findings. From this mornings Autobog. DSG? 420HP?

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/26/4...ing-to-geneva/

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Over the past three or four days, there have been a lot of rumors running through the tubes of the interwebs about BMW's surprise unveiling of a concept version of the M3 uber-coupe during next week's Geneva motor show. We had been holding off on posting anything about it, but thought that if it does come to fruition, you might like to know in advance.

The latest bit of news comes courtesy of Motor Authority, that points to last year's unveiling of the M5 in Geneva just as sales were about to begin a few months later. According to MA, the M3 will be powered by an all-new 4.0L V8 that will send 420 HP through a newly developed dual-clutch DSG-like transmission. Knowing that lightweight materials are essential to beat out rivals like Audi's RS4, the upcoming IS-F and the forthcoming C63 AMG, BMW may employ carbon fiber in some of the M3's body panels.

Our crew is beginning to pack our bags, power adapters and photo equipment for our jaunt to Switzerland, so rest assured that if BMW does drop the M3 next week, you'll be looking at pictures and reading the details shortly after the veil is lifted.
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      02-26-2007, 11:24 AM   #2
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Thanks Milehigh, it revs the enthusiasm.
#1 on the list, very cool.
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      02-26-2007, 11:42 AM   #3
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good find....
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      02-26-2007, 11:45 AM   #4
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Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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      02-26-2007, 01:45 PM   #5
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NOICE!!!!
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      02-26-2007, 02:06 PM   #6
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the new M// has alot of classy competitors... it just really depends on the persons taste... cause theres people whos eye prefer the Audi, some the BMW, some the lexus...and some even the Caddy so its crazy... alot of fine cars will be on the road in the next year
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      02-26-2007, 02:24 PM   #7
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about time!
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      02-26-2007, 02:34 PM   #8
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DSG-esque…. ? I’d be kind of surprised since this is the first of this we have heard and the fact that the car should be anywhere from 3-12 months away. Seems kind of late to make such a major change/upgrade.
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      02-26-2007, 03:31 PM   #9
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Man i cant wait im so fired up about the m3 after for the first time in my life experiencing a smg gearbox in the gallardo(my friends). Each time you change a gear it feels like someone just kicked you in the back, simply amazing. Now my question how is the dsg gearbox going to be diffirent/better than the smg. Sorry for my stupid question.
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      02-26-2007, 03:49 PM   #10
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i don't believe the DSG stuff

dual clutch was supposed to come out in 2009 for BMW
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      02-26-2007, 05:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2002 View Post
Man i cant wait im so fired up about the m3 after for the first time in my life experiencing a smg gearbox in the gallardo(my friends). Each time you change a gear it feels like someone just kicked you in the back, simply amazing. Now my question how is the dsg gearbox going to be diffirent/better than the smg. Sorry for my stupid question.

Don't believe the DSG rumors. However, your friend's Gallardo is nothing like BMW's SMG; it's far superior! DSG is basically Porsche designed and utilized by Audi, which of course, is offered on the Lamborginis.

DSG is a refined dual clutch tranny, whereas BMW offers their version of the same theme; albiet with a single clutch. Both, of course, are sans clutch pedal. DSG allows the subsequent gear to be "pre-selected" or "engaged", thereby reducing much of the gear change before you actually make it. (I.E. If you are accelerating the next higher gear is selected for the anticipated shift and if you are decelerating the opposite occurs.) The current Ferrari (430) and contemporary Lambos use it, as will Porsche (beginning with the 2008 997/911) in the very near future. None of the exotic car manufacturers are using SMG technology.

Each tranny is still a manual gearbox, but the clutching is done with the system's electronics/hydraulics. Neither transmission has a torque convertor; which robs some horsepower.

I'm confident that my statements will offend some BMW fans, but it's how I feel based on what I've experienced and read about the two. I love M3's but wish BMW would replace SMG with DSG or similar tech to DSG. I really doubt that this will happen anytime soon, but I can still hope for it. If anything less than a DSG type tranny is offered, I will pick a traditional stick over SMG any day; and some purist will take the stick over any tech that takes from the experience of driving. Unless full boogie, a stick is far more fun, imo.
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      02-26-2007, 06:08 PM   #12
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I am confident that BMW is developing a system with DSG functionality.

By the way, DSG was NOT developed by Audi/VW or Porsche*. DSG was developed by Borg Warner and was simply licensed by Audi/VW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox

*Porsche did develop a PDK gearbox with similar functionality for racing purposes years ago, but as far as I know it was never adapted for road car use.
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      02-26-2007, 06:36 PM   #13
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Some factual problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Don't believe the DSG rumors. However, your friend's Gallardo is nothing like BMW's SMG; it's far superior! DSG is basically Porsche designed and utilized by Audi, which of course, is offered on the Lamborginis.

DSG is a refined dual clutch tranny, whereas BMW offers their version of the same theme; albiet with a single clutch. Both, of course, are sans clutch pedal. DSG allows the subsequent gear to be "pre-selected" or "engaged", thereby reducing much of the gear change before you actually make it. (I.E. If you are accelerating the next higher gear is selected for the anticipated shift and if you are decelerating the opposite occurs.) The current Ferrari (430) and contemporary Lambos use it, as will Porsche (beginning with the 2008 997/911) in the very near future. None of the exotic car manufacturers are using SMG technology.

Each tranny is still a manual gearbox, but the clutching is done with the system's electronics/hydraulics. Neither transmission has a torque convertor; which robs some horsepower.

I'm confident that my statements will offend some BMW fans, but it's how I feel based on what I've experienced and read about the two. I love M3's but wish BMW would replace SMG with DSG or similar tech to DSG. I really doubt that this will happen anytime soon, but I can still hope for it. If anything less than a DSG type tranny is offered, I will pick a traditional stick over SMG any day; and some purist will take the stick over any tech that takes from the experience of driving. Unless full boogie, a stick is far more fun, imo.
Gallardo has a conventional manual transmission with the clutch and gear lever controlled by computer and hydraulics. Lambo calls it e-gear but in principal it is identical to BMWs flavor, called SMG. Same goes for F430. BMW has been praised as the fastest shifting of the three, 80 miliseconds.

DSG is clearly superior for even faster shifts, better fule consumption and acceleration. Although DSG is the future some folks have complained about the current systems not being able to preselect the next gear properly under all combinations of accleration, braking, shifting, etc. In the meantime SMG like transmissions are still indeed state of the art and are still used in F1.
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      02-26-2007, 06:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Don't believe the DSG rumors. However, your friend's Gallardo is nothing like BMW's SMG; it's far superior! DSG is basically Porsche designed and utilized by Audi, which of course, is offered on the Lamborginis.

DSG is a refined dual clutch tranny, whereas BMW offers their version of the same theme; albiet with a single clutch. Both, of course, are sans clutch pedal. DSG allows the subsequent gear to be "pre-selected" or "engaged", thereby reducing much of the gear change before you actually make it. (I.E. If you are accelerating the next higher gear is selected for the anticipated shift and if you are decelerating the opposite occurs.) The current Ferrari (430) and contemporary Lambos use it, as will Porsche (beginning with the 2008 997/911) in the very near future. None of the exotic car manufacturers are using SMG technology.

Each tranny is still a manual gearbox, but the clutching is done with the system's electronics/hydraulics. Neither transmission has a torque convertor; which robs some horsepower.

I'm confident that my statements will offend some BMW fans, but it's how I feel based on what I've experienced and read about the two. I love M3's but wish BMW would replace SMG with DSG or similar tech to DSG. I really doubt that this will happen anytime soon, but I can still hope for it. If anything less than a DSG type tranny is offered, I will pick a traditional stick over SMG any day; and some purist will take the stick over any tech that takes from the experience of driving. Unless full boogie, a stick is far more fun, imo.
The DSG is a nice pseudo replacement for an automatic transmission but not suited for spirited driving and certainly not on a track. Do some searches......
  • You cannot skip gears downshifting - i.e. 5 to 3rd, 6th to 3rd - this makes it useless around a track
  • Also, people complain that it kicks down regardless if it is in auto / manual mode when you go part throttle - no control
If BMW does a DSG type of system, I suspect they would need to fix these 2 issues....
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      02-26-2007, 06:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
If BMW does a DSG type of system, I suspect they would need to fix these 2 issues....
Yes, I bet they already have something in the works to address these things.
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      02-26-2007, 07:20 PM   #16
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keep in mind, in the 2007 BMW F1.07 (there brand new formula 1 car), BMW has a new "seamless shift" gear box... a box that preselects the next gear and hence shifts "seamlessly."

Maybe BMW will do with this gear box what they did with the SMG... take their technology directly from their Formula 1 car. After all, it is all within the BMW M group!
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      02-26-2007, 07:26 PM   #17
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^^^ i just jizzed my pants thinking about it!!!!
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      02-26-2007, 07:41 PM   #18
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I have never seen so much hoopla over a clutchless (manual clutch, anyways) tranny.

I'll have the one with three pedals please...
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      02-26-2007, 07:46 PM   #19
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i'm keeping my fingers crossed for the DSG. and while i'm at it, i'll keep my fingers crossed for an interface more seamless than i-drive!
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      02-26-2007, 11:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
I have never seen so much hoopla over a clutchless (manual clutch, anyways) tranny.

I'll have the one with three pedals please...


Agree
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      02-27-2007, 12:09 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3racer View Post
i agree , with 420horses , the same as rs4 its down to personal taste i guess. its all good.
Yes, but people into the RS4 play the "4 door card", plus the M3 has a much more loyal following than the RS4, since we last saw the RS4 stateside in '01.
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      02-27-2007, 12:09 AM   #22
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