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View Poll Results: Did the kid at the Phillies game deserve to be tazed
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      05-05-2010, 08:15 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by immiketoo View Post
You have no idea what you are talking about. Tasers are not lethal. Multiple independent medical studies have proven that the use of a Taser reduces injuries as opposed to traditional methods of subduing people in over 97% of the cases.

Disparaging the overweight cop by using an over played stereotype speaks volumes about your maturity and your intelligence level, and people like you are why cops are still issued expandable metal batons. Go away and take your feeble opinions with you.

Or, stay and try and educate yourself for a change.

A simple google search will provide plenty of medical info about how Tasers are transparent to pace makers (Which means they don't affect pace makers).
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Another idiot...
Ok, well after reading this bit of information form Amnesty International, they say that 351 people have died after being tasered, in the past 9 years.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/us-human-r....do?id=1021202

So how does that mean I am an idiot for disagreeing with you? Please enlighten me as to how my thoughts make me such an idiot? Or better yet, how about you explain the to families of the people that died how tasers are non-lethal.
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      05-05-2010, 08:16 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Ok, well after reading this bit of information form Amnesty International, they say that 351 people have died after being tasered, in the past 9 years.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/us-human-r....do?id=1021202

So how does that mean I am an idiot for disagreeing with you? Please enlighten me as to how my thoughts make me such an idiot? Or better yet, how about you explain the to families of the people that dies how tasers are non-lethal.


Wow.
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      05-05-2010, 08:19 PM   #91
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So basically what this thread advocates is the use of deadly force when a "criminal" is running around the playing field of a very important game.
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      05-05-2010, 08:25 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
So basically what this thread advocates is the use of deadly force when a "criminal" is running around the playing field of a very important game.
Deadly force? Are you serious? Next time, I'll let the cop know that he should tickle him instead of using a taser. Oh wait, the guy might dying from giggling to death. Now we'll rule "tickling" as deadly force. Jesus, give me a break. Nobody will ever be happy, they'll always find something to bitch about.
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      05-05-2010, 08:31 PM   #93
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Posting the same thing here as I did in the other thread:

I don't see the big deal. Obnoxious 17 year old runs on field, security tasers him, he walks off with police. End of story.

Better to be tasered and hauled away in cuffs than to have sweaty rent-a-cop balls in your face while he cuffs you, I say.
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      05-05-2010, 10:21 PM   #94
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Deserves it, yes. But was it necessary? No.
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      05-05-2010, 11:40 PM   #95
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So basically what this thread advocates is the use of deadly force when a "criminal" is running around the playing field of a very important game.



It's called trespassing. Would you be happy if someone was trespassing on your property? You probably would, but I wouldn't.
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      05-06-2010, 07:34 AM   #96
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Ok, well after reading this bit of information form Amnesty International, they say that 351 people have died after being tasered, in the past 9 years.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/us-human-r....do?id=1021202

So how does that mean I am an idiot for disagreeing with you? Please enlighten me as to how my thoughts make me such an idiot? Or better yet, how about you explain the to families of the people that died how tasers are non-lethal.
So you seriously believe an organization as politically motivated as Amnesty International? Wake Forest Medical School did an independent study in 2008 that clearly refutes your unsubstantiated claim. You aren't an idiot for disagreeing with me. You are an idiot because you are wrong, don't know it, continue to spout un-truths and because you never bothered to come to the argument with anything other than personal opinion.

I am not, nor will I ever dispute there have been Taser abuses, nor will I defend cops who abuse their power. Unfortunately, there have been abuses in all occupations, and cops get the worst press when they do it. Deservedly so. The problem is that this country has gone down the path of fear. Its what I call my field mouse mentality. They don't know or care if the shadow looming overhead is a hawk or a kid flying a kite. Better safe than sorry. Never take responsibility for your own actions. Blame the cops, your parents, teachers, or the government.

To your last point. Tasers are non-lethal in the majority of individuals. There are conditions that exist in the human body that can be affected by a sudden adrenaline dump, which I can assure you, the Taser provides. ALL of those conditions are caused by the person who died PRIOR to being shot. High levels of narcotics, alcohol or other substances combined with the stress of confronting the cops and the adrenaline cause a situation called excited delirium which accounts for the majority of the cases you allege were caused by Tasers. Look into the specifics of your cases and you will see that yet again, the subjects who died some time after being Tased had conditions that would likely have killed them anyway. And, they were ALL violating the law.

Every medical examination of these cases except one showed that Tasers were NOT the cause of death, and the one said it was only a contributing factor in the death and only because it was temporally close to the death. Your number is miniscule in the percentage of deaths that occur in police encounters and most of those never make the media because there is no story when someone gets shot by the police when they deserve it. The cases of inappropriate police violence do, but they are the exception. When pepper spray was introduced to policing, there were similar outcries. Same with the expandable baton.

Let's look at the hundreds of thousands of subjects that have been Tased and exhibit no negative side effects. Statistical analysis does not support your assumption. As to explaining to the families who have had someone die? Let's use the case this thread was created for and pretend that the guy died. Ma'am, your son died after breaking the law, inconveniencing several hundred thousand people and then resisting arrest. I'm sorry for your loss.
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      05-06-2010, 07:45 AM   #97
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Fuck that's a lot of writing.
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      05-06-2010, 07:48 AM   #98
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Fuck that's a lot of writing.
Sorry man. I woke up way earlier than intended and I was bored
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      05-06-2010, 07:58 AM   #99
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Sorry man. I woke up way earlier than intended and I was bored
Its's cool bro. I start work at 7 am anyway But I see the point. Sympathy for those involved comes along with death, no matter the circumstances of it. I guess its kind of like a kid getting shot by the police after he brandished a fake gun. Necessary? Probably not. But the alternative to a lack or preparation/precaution could be potentially devastating.
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      05-06-2010, 08:03 AM   #100
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Its's cool bro. I start work at 7 am anyway But I see the point. Sympathy for those involved comes along with death, no matter the circumstances of it. I guess its kind of like a kid getting shot by the police after he brandished a fake gun. Necessary? Probably not. But the alternative to a lack or preparation/precaution could be potentially devastating.
Thank you! That is my worst nightmare. Scary stuff right there.
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      05-06-2010, 08:16 AM   #101
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      05-06-2010, 08:40 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
So basically what this thread advocates is the use of deadly force when a "criminal" is running around the playing field of a very important game.
You're right. We should bake him some cupcakes, give him many hugs, then encourage him to never get a job and collect paychecks sourced from the individuals in this country who actually do work and contribute.

Tasers are not "deadly force". And there should be no quotes around criminal in your post. There's no question the guy was breaking the law and fleeing from officers.

You should be tasered just for your ignorance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by immiketoo View Post
So you seriously believe an organization as politically motivated as Amnesty International? Wake Forest Medical School did an independent study in 2008 that clearly refutes your unsubstantiated claim. You aren't an idiot for disagreeing with me. You are an idiot because you are wrong, don't know it, continue to spout un-truths and because you never bothered to come to the argument with anything other than personal opinion.

I am not, nor will I ever dispute there have been Taser abuses, nor will I defend cops who abuse their power. Unfortunately, there have been abuses in all occupations, and cops get the worst press when they do it. Deservedly so. The problem is that this country has gone down the path of fear. Its what I call my field mouse mentality. They don't know or care if the shadow looming overhead is a hawk or a kid flying a kite. Better safe than sorry. Never take responsibility for your own actions. Blame the cops, your parents, teachers, or the government.

To your last point. Tasers are non-lethal in the majority of individuals. There are conditions that exist in the human body that can be affected by a sudden adrenaline dump, which I can assure you, the Taser provides. ALL of those conditions are caused by the person who died PRIOR to being shot. High levels of narcotics, alcohol or other substances combined with the stress of confronting the cops and the adrenaline cause a situation called excited delirium which accounts for the majority of the cases you allege were caused by Tasers. Look into the specifics of your cases and you will see that yet again, the subjects who died some time after being Tased had conditions that would likely have killed them anyway. And, they were ALL violating the law.

Every medical examination of these cases except one showed that Tasers were NOT the cause of death, and the one said it was only a contributing factor in the death and only because it was temporally close to the death. Your number is miniscule in the percentage of deaths that occur in police encounters and most of those never make the media because there is no story when someone gets shot by the police when they deserve it. The cases of inappropriate police violence do, but they are the exception. When pepper spray was introduced to policing, there were similar outcries. Same with the expandable baton.

Let's look at the hundreds of thousands of subjects that have been Tased and exhibit no negative side effects. Statistical analysis does not support your assumption. As to explaining to the families who have had someone die? Let's use the case this thread was created for and pretend that the guy died. Ma'am, your son died after breaking the law, inconveniencing several hundred thousand people and then resisting arrest. I'm sorry for your loss.
I see someone in this thread knows what they're talking about.

I can't believe how sensitive this country has become about how we treat criminals, illegal aliens, and suspected terrorists.... Tasers are much more lenient than the methods used in the vast majority of the rest of the world. When someone is knowingly and willingly acting unlawfully, we should consider their feelings before using proper escalation of force??? Really??? WTF.
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      05-06-2010, 08:47 AM   #103
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^^^^ This country is very liberal, that's why. Nobody considers the rest of the world, here.
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      05-06-2010, 09:07 AM   #104
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You're right. We should bake him some cupcakes, give him many hugs, then encourage him to never get a job and collect paychecks sourced from the individuals in this country who actually do work and contribute.

Tasers are not "deadly force". And there should be no quotes around criminal in your post. There's no question the guy was breaking the law and fleeing from officers.

You should be tasered just for your ignorance.



I see someone in this thread knows what they're talking about.

I can't believe how sensitive this country has become about how we treat criminals, illegal aliens, and suspected terrorists.... Tasers are much more lenient than the methods used in the vast majority of the rest of the world. When someone is knowingly and willingly acting unlawfully, we should consider their feelings before using proper escalation of force??? Really??? WTF.
No I am not saying they should give him a cookie. My response was that this wasn't a situation the necessitated the usage of a taser. It was a 17 year old kid running around, and the fat ass security guards couldn't catch him, so they resorted to an easy solution, to just use the taser him. Now if we are talking about an individual who poses a real threat to the officers or citizens, then by all means use the taser on the suspect. Such as if the suspect has a knife or other weapon.

And to miketoo, you bring up the Wake Forest Study, which I had not been made aware of. And in the 30 seconds it took to perform a google search on it, the first articles were all about how that study was flawed for not taking into account the effects of tasers on people that are old, or pregnant, or on drugs. There are always 2 sides. you say the Wake Forest Study supports the idea that tasers cause nothing more than a little buzzing sensation, I have other evidence that disagrees with that statement.

Now as far as overall taser usage in police departments. Yes they should have them, and be allowed to use them. But when in the confines of a stadium, where thousands of folks can see you. Discharging your taser to subdue a drunk 17 year old makes you look like a lazy cop who can't do his job without the use of force. Look at the video, those guys looked like the keystone cops running after him. Did they not have any training to deal with running after a fan? Seems like for the guys that guard the field, that should be the first thing they are good at, catching the fools that run onto the field.
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      05-06-2010, 09:22 AM   #105
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He is a 17 year old who could have possibly led them around the field for who knows how long. How long do you let him make a mockery out of the situation?

The word "stop" only has one meaning. I assume he understands English.
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      05-06-2010, 09:30 AM   #106
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Quote:
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No I am not saying they should give him a cookie. My response was that this wasn't a situation the necessitated the usage of a taser. It was a 17 year old kid running around, and the fat ass security guards couldn't catch him, so they resorted to an easy solution, to just use the taser him. Now if we are talking about an individual who poses a real threat to the officers or citizens, then by all means use the taser on the suspect. Such as if the suspect has a knife or other weapon.
So they should have let him go? If the security guards can't catch him on foot, they should just let it be, eh? That makes no sense. I take it you never played football or tag as a kid. Even when being pursued by people of equal skill, you have a distinct advantage in being able to count on a delay in reflex/reaction time on the part of your pursuers.

And how are you able to tell that he poses no threat to anyone who makes close personal contact with him?

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      05-06-2010, 09:34 AM   #107
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I change my answer.

The next time this happens, they should just shoot the guy. Not with a tazer, but 230 grains of .45 goodness. THEN conduct a press conference, explain that this won't be the answer every time someone runs on a field, just occassionally.

Record time until someone else wants to try.
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      05-06-2010, 09:39 AM   #108
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So they should have let him go? If the security guards can't catch him on foot, they should just let it be, eh? That makes no sense. I take it you never played football or tag as a kid. When being pursued by people of equal skill, you have a distinct advantage in being able to count on a delay in reflex/reaction time on the part of your pursuers.

And how are you able to tell that he poses no threat to anyone who makes close personal contact with him?
Who knows if he might have pulled out his Gameboy and given it a mighty flick into the officers head.
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      05-06-2010, 09:46 AM   #109
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WTF at all this arguing.
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      05-06-2010, 09:50 AM   #110
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Who knows if he might have pulled out his Gameboy and given it a mighty flick into the officers head.
Yeah I'm just saying you never know. You can't just assume that every criminal you go after is harmless. There's a really good chance this kid doesn't have anything on him (talking from the perspective of before they caught him), but you can't be 100% sure.

Back in the day, he'd be facing strict punishment from his parents on top of the discipline received from law enforcement. Unfortunately, his parents will probably now just ground him to his bedroom with his computer, cell phone, and XBox. I'm sure that'll deter him from ever breaking the law again....
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