Life After Warranty Voiding...

[MonteCarloM3]

what did you do to deserve a warranty void? the car is stock???

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Georgeair

Glad to see you're getting it rebuilt and properly - good luck!

Are you suggesting that there were other identified instances of main bearing issues documented elsewhere or is the sole source of that what knifeman "heard".

I'm not saying it's not possible, I've just never seen anything remotely like that and would be interested in any other first hand knowledge. Or direct second hand for that matter, anything beyond a one-person rumor.

Look forward to seeing the build progress.

Your post made me research on this issue.

To confirm this, I went to realoem.com and input my MY 2008 and did a search on the crank bearings. Attaching a screenshot.

2008 Realoem Part Numbers and Descriptions



So knifegun was right after all. BMW DID UPDATE THE BEARINGS AFTER 10/2008 = MY 2009 !

[elmariachi]

This is the reasons that BMW Asia gave on the voiding of the warranty :



Basically :

1) they are saying its perfect normal and nothing is wrong and that the DME showed nothing out of the norm.

2) The spark plug was replaced with the same OEM NGK R spark plugs because I had the misfire. It is really quite amazing that they do not trust customers to change the plugs outside BMW??? I had to change my spark plugs outside because the track event was in Malaysia which was 340km away. I had to drive my car back to Singapore and needed to get my plugs changed at the nearest workshop. It was as simple as getting the plugs and getting the workshop to replace it. Nothing to do with rocket science.

3) The most absurd comment ever. The sound came from the airconditioner and that it was the cause of the sound. The sound has always been there since the misfire and it is clearly audible.

4) Pretty self explanatory.

[V1.47fan]

I'm not familiar with tuning the S65 but shouldn't the ECU reduce power when it detects misfiring etc. way before major engine damage occurs?
What gain did you get with this tune not adding gains from the exhaust and intake?
Also do those tunes remove those safeguards?

I did some crazy $hit to my N54,thank god! that limp mode was always there or maybe it's just because I wasn't talented enough to cause it to go kaputt, excuse my german.

Maybe your dealership has it hands tied by BMW ASIA.
I know people in the states, somewhere down south who had tunes yet the BMW dealership looked the other way and replaced their turbos and in another case a tranny.
The first case it was a doctor who purchased 5 BMW's over the years from that particular place which is about what you spent on one M3.

How much does it cost BMW to produce a S65 engine? i wouldn't be surprised if it was less than $15,000. And you spent how much on this car?

They also could've kept you happy by selling you a new engine at a major discount,if they wanted to help.

Next time get you a Porsche 911 and please no more tunes,maybe a good exhaust and intake.

God Bless!

[aus]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Your post made me research on this issue.

To confirm this, I went to realoem.com and input my MY 2008 and did a search on the crank bearings. Attaching a screenshot.

2008 Realoem Part Numbers and Descriptions



So knifegun was right after all. BMW DID UPDATE THE BEARINGS AFTER 10/2008 = MY 2009 !

It that's the case, that's a BIG concern for all the 2008 guys.

[elp_jc]

Originally Posted by brava09

What was the reason for the void warranty?

Everybody 'tuning' their cars should consider their engine warranty voided. We might never know what exactly was done to the ECU, but just the fact it was tampered with it's game over. Can't blame BMW one bit for doing that.

Originally Posted by aus

It that's the case, that's a BIG concern for all the 2008 guys.

Just for ONE isolated incident involving a tuned engine?

Have one question on the 1.3Kg imbalance, which supposedly was the root cause of this particular failure: Wouldn't that be enough to feel the engine vibrate like crazy? This is the smoothest V8 I've owned, and I've owned FIVE Lexus V8 cars, which are renowned for their smoothness.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by elp_jc

Everybody 'tuning' their cars should consider their engine warranty voided. We might never know what exactly was done to the ECU, but just the fact it was tampered with it's game over. Can't blame BMW one bit for doing that.

Not blaming BMW on the warranty voiding. Read from Page 1 and you will know they did the wrong diagnostic and gave me the wrong information when I suspected something was very wrong with the engine. They also took the chance to void the gearbox warranty when they could especially when they did a royal screw up on the 1200 mile change on the DCT fluids when they were not supposed to.

Originally Posted by elp_jc

Just for ONE isolated incident involving a tuned engine?

Knifegun's M3 had bearing problems that were replaced with a new car. Apparently, SnowsM3 also had the same issue. And both were not tuned but in stock form.
Read the last 1-2 pages, you will see the links I have provided.

Originally Posted by elp_jc

Have one question on the 1.3Kg imbalance, which supposedly was the root cause of this particular failure: Wouldn't that be enough to feel the engine vibrate like crazy? This is the smoothest V8 I've owned, and I've owned FIVE Lexus V8 cars, which are renowned for their smoothness.

At least for me, when I had the car for 6 months, I did not experience anything like that. So maybe it was not an astronomical figure enough to induce a vibration that could be felt. The whole thing became very bad after the 3rd track day when there was a high rpm misfire on one of my banks and that could have probably made everything alot worse.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

I'm not familiar with tuning the S65 but shouldn't the ECU reduce power when it detects misfiring etc. way before major engine damage occurs?
What gain did you get with this tune not adding gains from the exhaust and intake?
Also do those tunes remove those safeguards?

I did some crazy $hit to my N54,thank god! that limp mode was always there or maybe it's just because I wasn't talented enough to cause it to go kaputt, excuse my german.

Maybe your dealership has it hands tied by BMW ASIA.
I know people in the states, somewhere down south who had tunes yet the BMW dealership looked the other way and replaced their turbos and in another case a tranny.
The first case it was a doctor who purchased 5 BMW's over the years from that particular place which is about what you spent on one M3.

How much does it cost BMW to produce a S65 engine? i wouldn't be surprised if it was less than $15,000. And you spent how much on this car?

They also could've kept you happy by selling you a new engine at a major discount,if they wanted to help.

Next time get you a Porsche 911 and please no more tunes,maybe a good exhaust and intake.

God Bless!

AFAIK, I got something like 17hp without the mods. Total with mods was something like 27hp. AFAIK, the safety nets of the ECU were NOT removed. BMW Asia did comment to me during our discussions that the ECU did the necessary to protect the engine when this happened. However, I find that hard to believe because I think they wanted me to believe there was nothing wrong with the engine.

Like I said, I speculate that its because BMW Asia buys many of the cars here without warranty from factory so they take over the warranty by floating the general warranty purchased for the mass selling cars like the regular sedans, etc.

My dealer here is useless. They cant trouble shoot a car even for the simplest issues. BMW Asia is also no different. They had their own guy look at it and told it me its an air conditioner issue which resulted in the sound.

I was prepared to even pay 50% of the cost of the new engine but they were more eager to repair it. When I realized that it was a circus with the way I have been handled and lied to, I knew that they might even cover up after tearing down the engine or manipulate it. It is not so hard to draw this conclusion especially when the status of the warranty was determined in less than 3 days. Since they were more eager to repair it and at a price that was very close to 50% of the price of a new engine, I realized it would be better to rebuild it properly than allow these jokers to even attempt to repair it. And they wouldn't since the cylinder walls have been damaged. Adding all the damaged parts for the repair, I am convinced it would have cost very close to a new engine if not about 40% less. They could have offered me a discount on a new engine and I would have gladly paid for it as well. There was no practical logic in getting them to repair it and charging me separately for all the damaged items?? A brand new S65 from my stealership here costs about USD40k or about 25-30k Euros. Spent less than 10k in mods on my car. Rims, Tints, Exhaust, etc.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by aus

[/b]

It that's the case, that's a BIG concern for all the 2008 guys.

Really depends. I believe it can also be the luck of the draw. But the sample pool is very small to make a definite and firm conclusion. But for sure the bearings were updated. There wouldn't be a revision to the bearings if something was not wrong with it that prompted them to change it after 10/2008. I dont see why they would change the bearings unless there was a real need to address a specific problem.

As an advise, I would definitely caution against those who are thinking of SC their M3s with the 2008 build.

Incidentally, knifegun's last post in the thread he posted about BMW updating the bearings and that he got a 2009 which did not make that noise was on 25th May 2009. Well after 10/2008 which also points towards the fact that he got a 2009 car with the updated bearings. And I am sure someone at the dealer or BMW told him that there were some issues with the bearings on 08 cars. This again can be re-confirmed by looking at realoem as I have provided above.

[FStop7]

The fact alone those part numbers were changed is interesting but doesn't necessarily mean there was serious issue. It could be a lot of things. At this point it's worth just keeping an eye out for reports of engine failures. The good news being that the BMW techs I've talked to have seen very few instances of S65 (or S85) failures, as in next to none. Back when the E46 M3 bearing issue was going on there were failures all over the place.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

... There wouldn't be a revision to the bearings if something was not wrong with it that prompted them to change it after 10/2008. I dont see why they would change the bearings unless there was a real need to address a specific problem.

Not necessarily. It could be as simple as the vendor supplying the bearings was changed. I don't know, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet.

I remember the S54 M3 engine. It didn't take long for blown engine reports to start piling up. By this time in its history, with the S54 their were many more blown engines reported. It doesn't sound like the same sort of bearing problems. At least I hope so; I have a 2008 M3 too.

Thanks for posting all of this. It must be a terrible experience for you. Good luck and I hope it all turns out good in the end.


Cheers.

P.S. I don't think I've ever seen as nice an intake port on any other stock head before. Thanks for the pics.