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      04-21-2010, 04:58 AM   #1
Roaders
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Fitting Toyo 888s to standard e92 18" wheels

Hi All

I have an E92 M3 that I take on quite a few track days. I have the OEM 19" wheels that are normally on the car but I also have a set of OEM 18" wheels that I use for track days.
This is so I don't ruin my expensive 19" tyres on the track and so that I can buy cheaper 18" track tyres rather than buying very expensive 19".

So far I have just had the factory fitted Michelin PS2s on the wheels but as I can now see canvas on the shoulders of the front left I now need to get some better track day rubber.

I want to go for Toyo 888s as I have heard good things about them but I can't find the correct tyre sizes to match my current ones. The front wheel is ok:

245/40/18 (I think that's right)

but the back wheels:

265/40/18

aren't made by Toyo.

I can go for:

265/35/18

which will mean that the rear tyres have a smaller outer circumference than my front or I can go for one of

245/40/18
275/40/18

which will be the incorrect width.

Which do I go for? I'm assuming that the 275/40/18 will be the best one.

How will these tyres wear in comparison to my existing tyres? The PS2s still have legal tread across the whole width of the tyre but as I said the fron left has canvas showing.
I've been told that the Toyos shoulders will hold up to understeer better and that I can swap the front tyres over to spread the outer corner wear. Is that correct?

Many Thanks.
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      04-21-2010, 05:26 AM   #2
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I suppose you've never had any experience on competition spec tires?

I advise you to try out the semi-slicks first like Yokohama AD08/Bridgestone RE-11/Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec's. These tires will still act like street tires and give plenty of audio warning before giving away compare to the likes of Toyo R888s. They will also hold up better under track conditions because of their higher temperature operation tolerance as well as reinforced side walls, unlike on the PS2s.

I've tried Toyo R888s once, not on my personal car and they are very nice but they wore out pretty quickly. I would say on a heavy braking track, they will only last 3 events at the most. I've tried the Yokohama A048s on my E46 as well as Michelin PS cups and they all last about the same, between 2-4 events depending on where I went and how many sessions I did at each event.

I can say from experience judging from your question, they will hold up (on the track) better than your PS2s. I (when i was just starting to track) took Toyo T1Rs pretty much 70-80% tread to an event and completely destroyed them in 1 day. By the end of the day the sidewalls were scrubbed out and the tread started to fall apart.

Im sure you already know most of this, just wanted to make sure. As for the size, the 265 with 35 profile should be no problem.
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      04-21-2010, 06:54 AM   #3
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I would stay away from the 888's if you can.I ran them last year and they do not seem to work very well on our cars as I had big issues with wear and overheating.I switched back to the Toyo RA1's in 275/35 18's and no further issues.The RA1's are no longer available but there are some good choices like the Nitto NT05 and Yokohoma 08's. Here are my rear 888's after 3 hours of track use.

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      04-21-2010, 07:04 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I would stay away from the 888's if you can.I ran them last year and they do not seem to work very well on our cars as I had big issues with wear and overheating.I switched back to the Toyo RA1's in 275/35 18's and no further issues.The RA1's are no longer available but there are some good choices like the Nitto NT05 and Yokohoma 08's. Here are my rear 888's after 3 hours of track use.

holy shit, did understeer cause that?
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      04-21-2010, 07:11 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FruitCake View Post
holy shit, did understeer cause that?
No rear grip after about 3 laps.I was starting with 28lbs of pressure and seeing as high as 42lbs after a few laps.The 888's only seem to work in a very narrow setup envelope that I sure never did find.The RA1's just work & work and have none of the issues that the 888's had.I am quite aggresive but I have never had this issue with Hoosiers or the Khumo's that I have run in the past on various cars.The guys that seem to get the 888's working are all in low powered light cars.
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      04-21-2010, 07:26 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
No rear grip after about 3 laps.I was starting with 28lbs of pressure and seeing as high as 42lbs after a few laps.The 888's only seem to work in a very narrow setup envelope that I sure never did find.The RA1's just work & work and have none of the issues that the 888's had.I am quite aggresive but I have never had this issue with Hoosiers or the Khumo's that I have run in the past on various cars.The guys that seem to get the 888's working are all in low powered light cars.
yea like the prep'd Lotus or Miatas. The car i drove them with was a track prep GT3 so thats a pretty big difference, 2900 vs. 3700lbs.
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      04-21-2010, 11:25 AM   #7
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275/40-18 would be fine on the rear.
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      04-22-2010, 03:10 PM   #8
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I'm running the R888's in:
255/35/18
275/35/18

As long as they're properly heat cycled, they should be alright.
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      04-22-2010, 03:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
I'm running the R888's in:
255/35/18
275/35/18

As long as they're properly heat cycled, they should be alright.
Interesting....

Why did you go for the 35 profile instead of 40? Because they'll be a bit stiffer?

I'm assuming they'll be more expensive than 40s.

What do you mean by heat cycled? Just allowing them to cool off between sessions - cool down laps ect?

Thanks for the replies
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      04-22-2010, 05:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaders View Post
Interesting....

Why did you go for the 35 profile instead of 40? Because they'll be a bit stiffer?

I'm assuming they'll be more expensive than 40s.

What do you mean by heat cycled? Just allowing them to cool off between sessions - cool down laps ect?

Thanks for the replies
heat cycled means you warm it up to operating temperature. Each time you do that "i think" is considered a heat cycle. Not until the 1st or even 2n heat cycle does the tire perform optimally.
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      04-22-2010, 05:24 PM   #11
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The 888's are suppose to be mainly for lighter cars from everything I've read on them.

OP should consider the Dunlop StarSpec. They get great reviews and my buddy has them on his E46 M3 and they still look great after two 2 day events.
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      04-22-2010, 07:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaders View Post
I want to go for Toyo 888s as I have heard good things about them but I can't find the correct tyre sizes to match my current ones. The front wheel is ok:

245/40/18 (I think that's right)

but the back wheels:

265/40/18

aren't made by Toyo.

I can go for:

265/35/18

which will mean that the rear tyres have a smaller outer circumference than my front or I can go for one of

245/40/18
275/40/18

which will be the incorrect width.

Which do I go for? I'm assuming that the 275/40/18 will be the best one.
I have the R888's as follows:

245/40x18 F
265/35x18 R

They work fine. They seem to be lasting well and have not had problems with heat cycling. When I get to buying replacements, I'll go for the following:

245/40x18 F
275/35x18 R

These are the same rolling radius/diameter, so they are a "better" fit. Other than truing up the sizes, I've got no complaints. You do have to run hot pressures around 38 PSI to get them to behave - any lower and they don't work properly.

I also have a square set of 275/35x18 NT-01's that I've run a few times. Having run the 888's, I'm not sure that the wider front rubber on the Nitto set is buying me very much.
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      04-22-2010, 07:21 PM   #13
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There's an entire discussion on R-comp tires here FYI:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278244
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      04-22-2010, 10:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaders View Post
Interesting....

Why did you go for the 35 profile instead of 40? Because they'll be a bit stiffer?

I'm assuming they'll be more expensive than 40s.

What do you mean by heat cycled? Just allowing them to cool off between sessions - cool down laps ect?

Thanks for the replies
The sizes I chose match the OEM's front/rear ratio AND the overall OEM tire diameter the closest. It's standard practice when you upsize the width to downsize the aspect ratio to maintain a similar overall diameter. In some cars, deviating from the OEM specs too much thorws off systems like ABS and traction control (less prevalent in performance cars).

As for heat cycling, there are many ways to do it. The most common way is to do some hot laps to bring the rubber up to optimal temp, then take them off the car to let them sit (or cure) overnight. You really can't heat cycle r-comps multiple times the same day. There are also machines that can heat cycle tires, which I believe the Tire Rack uses. There are also chemicals that, when applied, have the same effect as a heat cycle. Formula-V Traction Treatment is one... it softens the rubber for immediate use, but when done, it's like an instant heat cycle.

Hope this helps. R-comps are what they are. You cannot expect to get thousands of miles out of them. They all come with a built-in sweet spot with respect to mileage/hours of use when properly heat cycled.
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Last edited by M3V8Driver; 04-23-2010 at 07:23 PM.
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      04-23-2010, 01:37 PM   #15
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Get the Toyo 888 "R" or get the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup+
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