WWIII

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by dr325i

A little bit off the topic...

How come these "rules" apply to our alies (Israel) but not to the others...for example Serbia (Kosovo situation)? Is that the justice we're promoting around the world? Or we promote only if it agrees with our interests...no matter if it is justified?

What rules are you referring to?

[ElCapitan]

Originally Posted by youyou

Ok my friend go tell that to the terrorists and then when they stop we will as well.
Has Israel ever voluntarely attacked any other country? No i don't think so
Out of all the wars Israel has ever had has Israel always been the one that initiated them? No i don't think so.
I don't know if you realize but Israel only retaliates when they are either attacked or if a suicide bomber has blown himself up.
This madness will never stop until these madmen stop.
So yes peace would be great. Trust me I would love to buy a villa on the beach in Tel Aviv and have a family there but for now i'll stick to Montreal.
I don't want to worry when my kids go to school ( which i don't have yet but hopefully will one day).
And I applaud every single Israeli for being able to live in that fear every day.

I hear a lot of talk but I see no walk. Are you a citizen of Israel? If so why aren't you serving in their military right now fighting the oppressors of your nation? You used the word "we" so I assumed you are Israelli. You preach the whipe down fo the oppressors of Israel but yet you seem to live a cushy life in Mtl. I am a serving member in the Canadian Forces, I help provinding you with the safety and security you enjoy in Canada.

As for Isreal's right to defend themselves no one is denying it. It is the way they exercised that right that is wrong. Two wrongs don't make it right. We (western allies, Israel, etc.) are suppose to be civilized. We should not accept under any circumstances the used of tactics that produces high collateral damage. It makes us look bad and helps recruitment for the enemy(ies). They hate us more. Israel was totally justified in retaliation against the abductions but they went to the extreme and stirredmore hate on themselves in the process.

If I was in the Israel army, I would accept the risks of being captured by the enemy but I do not think I am worth the price of hundred civilians. I knew what I was geting in when I signed the dotted line. Those risks come with the job.

If you have served in the Israel Forces and did you time, please accept my apologies and you have all my respect. If not, please step down from your piedestal of "we must whipe them all off the face of the earth" and give the respect to the people that are actually doing the fighting for you in the dirt and dust of middle east.

Peace and god bless us all.

[youyou]

Originally Posted by ElCapitan

I hear a lot of talk but I see no walk. Are you a citizen of Israel? If so why aren't you serving in their military right now fighting the oppressors of your nation? You used the word "we" so I assumed you are Israelli. You preach the whipe down fo the oppressors of Israel but yet you seem to live a cushy life in Mtl. I am a serving member in the Canadian Forces, I help provinding you with the safety and security you enjoy in Canada.

As for Isreal's right to defend themselves no one is denying it. It is the way they exercised that right that is wrong. Two wrongs don't make it right. We (western allies, Israel, etc.) are suppose to be civilized. We should not accept under any circumstances the used of tactics that produces high collateral damage. It makes us look bad and helps recruitment for the enemy(ies). They hate us more. Israel was totally justified in retaliation against the abductions but they went to the extreme and stirredmore hate on themselves in the process.

If I was in the Israel army, I would accept the risks of being captured by the enemy but I do not think I am worth the price of hundred civilians. I knew what I was geting in when I signed the dotted line. Those risks come with the job.

If you have served in the Israel Forces and did you time, please accept my apologies and you have all my respect. If not, please step down from your piedestal of "we must whipe them all off the face of the earth" and give the respect to the people that are actually doing the fighting for you in the dirt and dust of middle east.

Peace and god bless us all.

Before accusing people of living a cushy life in Montreal you should ask questions!!!
First off yes i have served in the Israeli Army.
Was I born in Israel? No. I was born in Montreal Canada and I am as Canadian as you.
My parents lived in Israel and fought for Israel as well.
You seem to think that YOU are providing me my generous lifestyle i live in Canada because you are in the Canadian Armed Forces???!!! Are you kidding?
Israel has never asked any help from any Armed forces. Especially the Canadian armed forces.
Now back to the point at hand.
You will never understand what the people of Israel live through every day. You think that their retaliation is excessive??!! You have no idea what you are talking about. These people will not stop until every single jew is wiped off the face of the planet. I don't expect you to understand anyhow...
In wars civilians die. That's just the nature of war. It's very unfortunate but that's the way it has always been since the beginning of time. Now your telling me that a civilian that dies BY MISTAKE in Lebanon or wherever from an Israeli airstike is unacceptable, but an Israeli civilian that dies in a suicide bombimg ON PURPOSE is acceptable.
Please do me a favor and get off your high horse thinking you provide me with security because you are in the Canadian Armed Forces.
There is only one place that provides security for me and all Jews in the World.
And that is Israel.

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by youyou

Are you kidding?
Israel has never asked any help from any Armed forces. Especially the Canadian armed forces.
Now back to the point at hand.
You will never understand what the people of Israel live through every day. You think that their retaliation is excessive??!! You have no idea what you are talking about. These people will not stop until every single jew is wiped off the face of the planet. I don't expect you to understand anyhow...
In wars civilians die. That's just the nature of war. It's very unfortunate but that's the way it has always been since the beginning of time. Now your telling me that a civilian that dies BY MISTAKE in Lebanon or wherever from an Israeli airstike is unacceptable, but an Israeli civilian that dies in a suicide bombimg ON PURPOSE is acceptable.
Please do me a favor and get off your high horse thinking you provide me with security because you are in the Canadian Armed Forces.
There is only one place that provides security for me and all Jews in the World.
And that is Israel.

As for asking for help...they don't need to ask since the US allows them to do as they wish. The US gives (not sells) them the weapons, the planes...anything they want. How is it possible that one Israel has nukes but the rest of the area is not allowed to have them??? That is a simple BS^2! I am not saying that the nukes in the hands of Iranian Govt would be a good thing, but at the same time, the nukes in Israeli hands are dangerous, too.

As for telling us we have no idea how hard it is for Israelis over there... I have no doubts about it. But I can assure you it is much harder for Palestinians inthe same area, so...get real(istic)!

[ElCapitan]

Originally Posted by youyou

Before accusing people of living a cushy life in Montreal you should ask questions!!!
First off yes i have served in the Israeli Army.
Was I born in Israel? No. I was born in Montreal Canada and I am as Canadian as you.
My parents lived in Israel and fought for Israel as well.
You seem to think that YOU are providing me my generous lifestyle i live in Canada because you are in the Canadian Armed Forces???!!! Are you kidding?
Israel has never asked any help from any Armed forces. Especially the Canadian armed forces.
Now back to the point at hand.
You will never understand what the people of Israel live through every day. You think that their retaliation is excessive??!! You have no idea what you are talking about. These people will not stop until every single jew is wiped off the face of the planet. I don't expect you to understand anyhow...
In wars civilians die. That's just the nature of war. It's very unfortunate but that's the way it has always been since the beginning of time. Now your telling me that a civilian that dies BY MISTAKE in Lebanon or wherever from an Israeli airstike is unacceptable, but an Israeli civilian that dies in a suicide bombimg ON PURPOSE is acceptable.
Please do me a favor and get off your high horse thinking you provide me with security because you are in the Canadian Armed Forces.
There is only one place that provides security for me and all Jews in the World.
And that is Israel.

As I stated in my original post I apologize since you have served and fulfilled your civic duty. I respect greatly that you and your family have done your part and served in the Israel Army. I didn't know that you did your service, you never stated otherwise earlier in your posts. Also, many Canadian immigrants (I didn't know that you were a Canadian citizen and not an immigrant) are coming to Canada to escape mandatory military service in their country of origin including France and Israel.

You are right, I will never fully understand the situation since I never went in the middle east. All I know is that from the perspective of an outsider (me) the retataliation against the people of Lebanon seemed exagerated. This considering that most western media are contributing to, most of the time, defend the underdog and to victimize the weakest, in this case, Lebanon against the necessary powerful military machine of Israel. If the retaliation was not only for the six soldiers kidnapped, it sure looked as an excuse to go after the heart of the country that is unfortunately infested with Hezbollah.

Terrorism is a modern day plague that must end. Unfortunately, I think that the strategies that we are employing are not successful. I think we are loosing the most important part of the battle, the hearts and mind of the people that are being recruited to fight us. They hate us all and Israel is unfortunately the closest enemy to which it is easy to draw down to their level on their battlefeild. The cycle of violence must be broken and it is usually broken by the most mature party (in this case Israel). I don't know how it can be done but I think we (including Israel) are taking the wrong path and we are fighting a never ending battle. For every innocent civilian that gets killed, a hundred other are volunteering to avenge them. These people have nothing to loose, are misinformed, filled with hatred and are willing to sacrifice their life for the glimpse misguided prospect to better their people's future. That makes the most dangerous kind of enemy.

Once again, please accept my humble apology. And may your people enjoys peace one day. If they do, it will be partly due to you and others that serve and have served to protect Israel and its citizen and you should be proud of that.

Peace

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by dr325i

How is it possible that one Israel has nukes but the rest of the area is not allowed to have them??? That is a simple BS^2! I am not saying that the nukes in the hands of Iranian Govt would be a good thing, but at the same time, the nukes in Israeli hands are dangerous, too.

Maybe because Israel is the only nation in the area that has never sworn to exterminate another nation? All nations are not equal.

[canuck335i]

youyou, you are 27yo right? just curious

[youyou]

Originally Posted by canuck335i

youyou, you are 27yo right? just curious

Ya Canuck i'm 27, turning 28 in April. Why do you ask?

[youyou]

Originally Posted by ElCapitan

As I stated in my original post I apologize since you have served and fulfilled your civic duty. I respect greatly that you and your family have done your part and served in the Israel Army. I didn't know that you did your service, you never stated otherwise earlier in your posts. Also, many Canadian immigrants (I didn't know that you were a Canadian citizen and not an immigrant) are coming to Canada to escape mandatory military service in their country of origin including France and Israel.

You are right, I will never fully understand the situation since I never went in the middle east. All I know is that from the perspective of an outsider (me) the retataliation against the people of Lebanon seemed exagerated. This considering that most western media are contributing to, most of the time, defend the underdog and to victimize the weakest, in this case, Lebanon against the necessary powerful military machine of Israel. If the retaliation was not only for the six soldiers kidnapped, it sure looked as an excuse to go after the heart of the country that is unfortunately infested with Hezbollah.

Terrorism is a modern day plague that must end. Unfortunately, I think that the strategies that we are employing are not successful. I think we are loosing the most important part of the battle, the hearts and mind of the people that are being recruited to fight us. They hate us all and Israel is unfortunately the closest enemy to which it is easy to draw down to their level on their battlefeild. The cycle of violence must be broken and it is usually broken by the most mature party (in this case Israel). I don't know how it can be done but I think we (including Israel) are taking the wrong path and we are fighting a never ending battle. For every innocent civilian that gets killed, a hundred other are volunteering to avenge them. These people have nothing to loose, are misinformed, filled with hatred and are willing to sacrifice their life for the glimpse misguided prospect to better their people's future. That makes the most dangerous kind of enemy.

Once again, please accept my humble apology. And may your people enjoys peace one day. If they do, it will be partly due to you and others that serve and have served to protect Israel and its citizen and you should be proud of that.

Peace

Apology accepted.
You see the problem is that Israel fights for the survival not only of it's country but for the survival of the jewish people.
When you are a tiny grain of sand surrounded by a beach of Arab countries that want to drive you in the water then you fight to survive.
Anyhow this is a very complicated subject and the bottom line is peace would be the best result. But until we start dealing with people and not terrorists then the situation will not change.

[ElCapitan]

Originally Posted by youyou

Apology accepted.
You see the problem is that Israel fights for the survival not only of it's country but for the survival of the jewish people.
When you are a tiny grain of sand surrounded by a beach of Arab countries that want to drive you in the water then you fight to survive.
Anyhow this is a very complicated subject and the bottom line is peace would be the best result. But until we start dealing with people and not terrorists then the situation will not change.

[canuck335i]

Originally Posted by youyou

Ya Canuck i'm 27, turning 28 in April. Why do you ask?

like I said, just curious, reading all these replys in here with people bringing strong points with "enthousiasm", just help me understand why some things are explained the way they are

[youyou]

Originally Posted by canuck335i

like I said, just curious, reading all these replys in here with people bringing strong points with "enthousiasm", just help me understand why some things are explained the way they are

Oh ok...
Well i voice my opinion very enthusiastically because i believe in what im saying.
And when i see people commenting on things that they have never seen with their own eyes or experienced in person it bothers me.

[snawaz]

Originally Posted by youyou

Before accusing people of living a cushy life in Montreal you should ask questions!!!
First off yes i have served in the Israeli Army.
Was I born in Israel? No. I was born in Montreal Canada and I am as Canadian as you.
My parents lived in Israel and fought for Israel as well.
You seem to think that YOU are providing me my generous lifestyle i live in Canada because you are in the Canadian Armed Forces???!!! Are you kidding?
Israel has never asked any help from any Armed forces. Especially the Canadian armed forces.
Now back to the point at hand.
You will never understand what the people of Israel live through every day. You think that their retaliation is excessive??!! You have no idea what you are talking about. These people will not stop until every single jew is wiped off the face of the planet. I don't expect you to understand anyhow...
In wars civilians die. That's just the nature of war. It's very unfortunate but that's the way it has always been since the beginning of time. Now your telling me that a civilian that dies BY MISTAKE in Lebanon or wherever from an Israeli airstike is unacceptable, but an Israeli civilian that dies in a suicide bombimg ON PURPOSE is acceptable.
Please do me a favor and get off your high horse thinking you provide me with security because you are in the Canadian Armed Forces.
There is only one place that provides security for me and all Jews in the World.
And that is Israel.

My zionist friend as long as you occupy the arab lands you will never have peace and security. Why dont you open your eyes and realise that if you had not stolen the arab lands in the first place there would not be all this mayhem in the middle-east.

You always refer to the wiping out of the Jews. This has never been the intention of any muslim people. The zionist state yes, the Jews no! You provoke and provoke, and the propagandists that you are, make others believe lies about how you came to create israel.

You are a powerful people now, but it will not always be, as history has taught us.

Which zionists turn is it to reply to this?

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by snawaz

My zionist friend as long as you occupy the arab lands you will never have peace and security. Why dont you open your eyes and realise that if you had not stolen the arab lands in the first place there would not be all this mayhem in the middle-east.

You always refer to the wiping out of the Jews. This has never been the intention of any muslim people. The zionist state yes, the Jews no! You provoke and provoke, and the propagandists that you are, make others believe lies about how you came to create israel.

You are a powerful people now, but it will not always be, as history has taught us.

Which zionists turn is it to reply to this?

Where do you get that the area in question is "Arab land"? When did it become "Arab land"? Was it "Arab land" when the Ottoman Turks ruled it for 600 years? Or when the Byzantines or Romans ruled?

Take a look at this link and tell me we are speaking of "Arab land".

Are you claiming the State of Israel did not come about because of the UN Partition Plan, the rejection of the plan and subsequent attack by the Arabs, and the resulting defeat of the Arabs? If so, what is your version of events?

[snawaz]

Originally Posted by youyou

Palestenians have had many offers given to them many times and they always refused.
A. Like you said " they want the nation of Isreal to be desolved."
B. They want Jerusalem.
Neither will ever happen until the last jew or Israeli i know will exist.
Never again will we be put in a situation where another Holocaust can happen
We will fight for our freedom and right to survive until the last man standing.

Well said. If you read islamic history and teachings which i'm sure you'll be well versed in, then you will find the muslims believe that the zionists have a big role to play in the end times. It has been prophesised that Jeruselum will be under the control of the zionists in the end times and will be recaptured for the muslims with the coming of The Messiah. So stay there for the prescribed time you must.

[snawaz]

Originally Posted by ganeil

Where do you get that the area in question is "Arab land"? When did it become "Arab land"? Was it "Arab land" when the Ottoman Turks ruled it for 600 years? Or when the Byzantines or Romans ruled?

Take a look at this link and tell me we are speaking of "Arab land".

Are you claiming the State of Israel did not come about because of the UN Partition Plan, the rejection of the plan and subsequent attack by the Arabs, and the resulting defeat of the Arabs? If so, what is your version of events?

You sing from the same hymn sheet that often that its getting boring. Where do you get this propaganda from? Is it faxed to you via Israel? Keep the pretence up as long as you will, the truth will eventually prevail. As we muslims believe you are only in Palestine by the will of God, not by your might as you believe.

Undoubtedly the Jewish people have been through lots of trials and tribulations at the hands of others, but never at the hands of the muslims until after 1948. We lived in peace for centuries with the Jewish people, who were allowed to freely practice their religion without fear. You use the holocaust in justifying your existence but in turn create a whole new holocaust for a new set of people. This is your history, you are a people that forget very easily the favours that were bestowed upon them.

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by snawaz

You sing from the same hymn sheet that often that its getting boring. Where do you get this propaganda from? Is it faxed to you via Israel? Keep the pretence up as long as you will, the truth will eventually prevail. As we muslims believe you are only in Palestine by the will of God, not by your might as you believe.

Undoubtedly the Jewish people have been through lots of trials and tribulations at the hands of others, but never at the hands of the muslims until after 1948. We lived in peace for centuries with the Jewish people, who were allowed to freely practice their religion without fear. You use the holocaust in justifying your existence but in turn create a whole new holocaust for a new set of people. This is your history, you are a people that forget very easily the favours that were bestowed upon them.

What propaganda are you speaking of? Did the Roman, Macedonians, Persians, etc... not rule the area at one time?

Are you claiming that once a land is ruled by Muslims, it can never be ruled by any others?

[snawaz]

Originally Posted by ganeil

What propaganda are you speaking of? Did the Roman, Macedonians, Persians, etc... not rule the area at one time?

Are you claiming that once a land is ruled by Muslims, it can never be ruled by any others?

Not at all. Our prophet Muhammed has told of the Palestinian muslim land being controlled by the zionists in the end times after being initially controlled by the muslims. But also that it will return to muslim hands one day with the coming of the Messiah. Enjoy your Zionist state for the time decreed to you by God.

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by snawaz

Not at all. Our prophet Muhammed has told of the Palestinian muslim land being controlled by the zionists after being initially controlled by the muslims. But also that it will return to muslim hands one day with the coming of the Messiah. Enjoy your Zionist state for the time decreed to you by God.

Now I am confused!

Are you now saying that the Jews have returned to Israel because it is God's will?

If so, what is the justification for opposing the State of Israel? Are you not then opposing the Will of God?

If God no longer wants them there at some point in the future, surely He needs no help in making that happen.

[snawaz]

Originally Posted by ganeil

Now I am confused!

Are you now saying that the Jews have returned to Israel because it is God's will?

If so, what is the justification for opposing the State of Israel? Are you not then opposing the Will of God?

If God no longer wants them there at some point in the future, surely He needs no help in making that happen.

You are not confused at all my zionist friend, it is the other people who are not versed in our religions that you are trying to confuse and bring/keep on your side. Ever the zionist looking to confuse and daze their opponents with slight trick of tongue. You have the majority of the Western world with you at the moment. But when God's final will shall be done you will have no way to trick yourselve out of that.

[canuck335i]

Ganeil, you are a zionist??

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by canuck335i

Ganeil, you are a zionist??

I guess so!