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      02-16-2007, 12:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carnuts3 View Post
Great discussion on this thread... Assuming that they are produced and then shipped to North America, does anyone in the "reasonable" know have any idea (or good guess) as to when the E90 version of the M3 will be available in the U.S.?
The E90 M3 won't be launched before the general E90 facelift will be introduced. Facelift for E90 should come in fall '08. So fall 08 is also the earliest possible date for E90 M3. This should be for the european E90, don't know if there's another delay for the US!?

Best regards, south
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      02-16-2007, 02:05 PM   #24
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Good discussion

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Originally Posted by JK42 View Post
Those are hard cold facts straight from the dealer.
Jussi: Clearly you realize the oxymoronic nature of the above comment! Dealers are best known for inaccurate and not up to date information.

However, I am still buying the timeline of US deliveries in 2007 for the E92 M3.

South: I don't think you can conclude that no FEP cars present in the US means definitively that there can not be US deliveries in 2007.

I think the 6M only at first, then DSG later skipping or not offering SMG sounds very suspect/unlikley to me. They are using most of the M5 engine, probably the diff as well, why not the SMG III and just make it most of the drivetrain? If SMG will not be available this is all brand new news inconsistent with everything known/assumed/published/speculated to date. Everything has said 7 speed SMG (SMG III?).

No SMG followed by no DSG for some time along with no US delivery in 2007 is going to be a serious bummer, if true. Ugh.
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      02-16-2007, 02:32 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
South: I don't think you can conclude that no FEP cars present in the US means definitively that there can not be US deliveries in 2007.
My deliberation is the following: FEP cars have been driving on german roads since 4 months. But none of the FEP cars have been sighted in US. So the "development" in europe is some months ahead. Since the european sales start in september at the earliest (really, not summer, not june, fall!!) and the european M3 is 3 month ahead, a 2007 US delivery seems very unlikely to me! This is my deliberation, surely not a strict evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I think the 6M only at first, then DSG later skipping or not offering SMG sounds very suspect/unlikley to me. They are using most of the M5 engine, probably the diff as well, why not the SMG III and just make it most of the drivetrain? If SMG will not be available this is all brand new news inconsistent with everything known/assumed/published/speculated to date. Everything has said 7 speed SMG (SMG III?).

No SMG followed by no DSG for some time along with no US delivery in 2007 is going to be a serious bummer, if true. Ugh.
As I said there are strong indications that there won't be an SMG. I've heard that from different independent sources (also user jimmern confirms here). The speculations why BMW doesn't use SMG differ. Some people say there are technical reasons (SMG III gearbox is too large for implementation in E92 - I personally don't believe this). Most probably the BMW guys were so impressed by the new DSG that they wanted to have it in the prestigious M3.
But development of DSG seems to take longer than expected. So they start with the manual and the DSG will follow when it's ready.

Best regards, south
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      02-16-2007, 02:54 PM   #26
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Reasonable

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Originally Posted by southlight View Post
also user jimmern confirms here
All sounds pretty reasonable. I'm just praying for the other side of reasonable. I guess I would not mind waiting for DSG. Again it appeals to my mpg/green side as well. DSG+DGI would actually deliver some nice mpg! Ugh I said that again didn't I...

Also is jimmern some insider? When I read posts I usually don't know Jack from Jill or their reputation.

Cheers.
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      02-16-2007, 03:06 PM   #27
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mpg benefits (a bit OT...)

I have heard up to a 20% improvement for DGI and about 10% for DSG in mpg. With the E60 M5 mpg of 12/18 we need it! I would love to see 20's for both city/highway.
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      02-16-2007, 03:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
All sounds pretty reasonable. I'm just praying for the other side of reasonable. I guess I would not mind waiting for DSG. Again it appeals to my mpg/green side as well. DSG+DGI would actually deliver some nice mpg! Ugh I said that again didn't I...

Also is jimmern some insider? When I read posts I usually don't know Jack from Jill or their reputation.

Cheers.
Not that I know of! But his information corresponds quite well with other's.
Many people throw in a jigsaw piece and gradually things start to make sense. But most sense would make the official BMW announcement!! When, BMW, when???

Best regards, south

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I have heard up to a 20% improvement for DGI and about 10% for DSG in mpg. With the E60 M5 mpg of 12/18 we need it! I would love to see 20's for both city/highway.
I would also hope for some fuel saving measurements. But I came to the conclusion that if I wanted a good consumption the only car to choose is the 335i. But damn, that M3 is so hot, cant miss it...
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      02-16-2007, 03:19 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Since the european sales start in september at the earliest (really, not summer, not june, fall!!) and the european M3 is 3 month ahead, a 2007 US delivery seems very unlikely to me! This is my deliberation, surely not a strict evidence.
As far as swamp2s oxymoron note: These are facts from the guys that DO know their shit, that actually know the release schedules, talk to BMW in Germany and have orders placed within the BMW ordering system for the cars. But I guess you have better sources of information. Would you like to reveal them?

Your information is certainly not strict evidence like you said, and actually completely FALSE - the first week of production of the E92 M3 will be in May. THE CARS HAVE ALREADY BEEN ORDERED. As it turns out, options can be changed on the 3 cars that have been ordered here yet, but the showroom-requirement of 2 months and the usage of the first car as a test drive/demo vehicle remain facts. Options list has not been published yet, neither have the tech specs, but this is usual when they start taking orders for the first production cars before the actual release of the car has happened. That will happen very shortly.

They have already picked out the colors for the cars as well - initially there will be only 2 colors available for the release weeks of the E92 M3 (note this when it comes out and tell me if I was right.) - Interlagos Blue and a apparently some new shade of black (or perhaps Black Sapphire.)

2 of the cars that have been ordered here that will be produced in May will be Interlagos Blue, one will be black - that's the one that would be available for me - another bummer, as I would definitely want a blue one.

Best regards,

Jussi

Last edited by JK42; 02-16-2007 at 03:35 PM.
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      02-16-2007, 03:20 PM   #30
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I have the number one spot at my dealer, but I will be forced to wait if the car does not have SMG or DSG at launch here in the US.

I would never again get a sporty car with a true auto (I used to own a C32 AMG but I hated the tranny even though it was probably one of the better auto trannys from a performance standpoint), but I just do not want to go back to three pedals if I can avoid it with SMG or DSG.

I have had enough of MT cars (but would have to make an exception if I go with the 997 instead ).
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      02-16-2007, 03:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
As I said there are strong indications that there won't be an SMG. I've heard that from different independent sources (also user jimmern confirms here). The speculations why BMW doesn't use SMG differ. Some people say there are technical reasons (SMG III gearbox is too large for implementation in E92 - I personally don't believe this).

The SMG takes no more space than a regular manual gearbox even on the M5. Just look at the spare parts catalog that's available online. No problems fitting it into the Hartge H50.

SMG gearbox cars will be produced shortly after the first manual cars have rolled off the line.

On the E46 M3, the SMG used the same clutch and everything else like the manual gearbox. Just added the electronics for the SMG.

Best regards,

Jussi
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      02-16-2007, 04:03 PM   #32
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Hey Jussie,

Any idea when technical specs are released? Or will they be released when the whole damn car is relaesed?

Maybe a matter of weeks now?

Please shine some light here, thanks for your fine comments overhere,


Regards Romo
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      02-16-2007, 04:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
1. Oh, I see he didn't say spring, he did say before spring but in 2008:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...53&postcount=1
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...0&postcount=32
Sorry, that was my mistake; anyway he said there won't be an M3 in the US this year.
Well, guess what? I don't really care what Scott says. He's not Tom Purves coming out with an official statement, is he? The bottom line is there is a lot of evidence that indicates the E92 M3 will be at US dealers by September of this year. And if BMW can't deliver until Spring of '08, more than a year from now, BMW will loose my business and I will go buy a Porsche.
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      02-16-2007, 04:26 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwexecutive View Post
Well, guess what? I don't really care what Scott says. He's not Tom Purves coming out with an official statement, is he? The bottom line is there is a lot of evidence that indicates the E92 M3 will be at US dealers by September of this year. And if BMW can't deliver until Spring of '08, more than a year from now, BMW will loose my business and I will go buy a Porsche.
As I stated in another thread, I was told by Martin Birkmann, M Brand Manager-BMW NA who flew in from Germany (accent and all, if that makes it more official) for the Chicago Auto Show that no final decision had been made on whether to sell the sedan: "He said that the new M3 would not be available until 'next year.' He said the convertable would follow a year later, and they are still studying whether to offer the sedan. He said also that the sedan was the top selling body style for the E36 M3, but then he said that there was no sedan in the E46 version, but the E46 outsold the E36."

See http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46805

Unless the guy was simply lying, that means no M3 in the US in 2007 period, and possibly no sedan at all.

Now granted the guy was not Tom Purves, but he was a real BWWexecutive.

Last edited by ILC32; 02-16-2007 at 06:15 PM.
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      02-16-2007, 05:10 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK42 View Post
As far as swamp2s oxymoron note: These are facts from the guys that DO know their shit, that actually know the release schedules, talk to BMW in Germany and have orders placed within the BMW ordering system for the cars. But I guess you have better sources of information. Would you like to reveal them?

Your information is certainly not strict evidence like you said, and actually completely FALSE...
I don't like your cynical tone. Maybe you're taking this stuff a little too serious.
It's not about who has "better sources of information." People here share their expectations and opinions aswell as the rumours they heard. I did only tell what I've heard/read/seen. Unlike you I have no problem if somebody proves me wrong. But at this time nobody of us can really prove anything. Although the information I got doesn't correspond to your's I respect your info and you should do the same.
Just don't take it too personal that I didn't praise you to the skies.

Best regards, south
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      02-16-2007, 05:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
As I stated in another thread, I was told by Martin _________ a BMW motorsports representative who flew in from Germany (accent and all, if that makes it more official) for the Chicago Auto Show that no final decision had been made on whether to sell the sedan: "He said that the new M3 would not be available until 'next year.' He said the convertable would follow a year later, and they are still studying whether to offer the sedan. He said also that the sedan was the top selling body style for the E36 M3, but then he said that there was no sedan in the E46 version, but the E46 outsold the E36."

See http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46805

Unless the guy was simply lying, that means no M3 in the US in 2007 period, and possibly no sedan at all.

Now granted the guy was not Tom Purves, but he was a real BWWexecutive.

Could this simply be a matter of the US market selling a "model year 2008" when it's 2007, always one year ahead on all cars? Perhaps he had said something like, "there won't be an M3 until model year 2008" ? Which would still make it available in 2007.

I really have a hard time believing the U.S. wouldn't be getting a lot of E92 M3's during 2007, since major part of the manufacturing capacity is already reserved for the U.S. market, thus reducing the cars available on the European market. Even with the new M5, the first model year saw Finland getting a quota of 25 cars, so just 3 cars with the new M3 is really, really low. The only comparison would be the first model year of M6 which also saw Finland get only 3 cars. But since the M6 cost over 180-190.000 euros with options, that was more understandable, since there wouldn't be that many buyers to begin with. The M5 has sold quite well over here, and so has the M3, especially considering how relatively over-priced they are due to heavy car taxes. They oversell Audi S/RS models about 5:1.

Best regards,

Jussi
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      02-16-2007, 05:28 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK42 View Post
Could this simply be a matter of the US market selling a "model year 2008" when it's 2007, always one year ahead on all cars? Perhaps he had said something like, "there won't be an M3 until model year 2008" ? Which would still make it available in 2007.


Best regards,

Jussi
I don't think so. This happened this past Saturday. Martin definitely said the new M3 would be available in the US "next year". Now he is a native German speaker, so maybe he meant to say something else in English but simply chose imprecise words. I do not think that is what happened. Don't get me wrong -- I want the new M3 to be available here this year, and not "next year." I am just passing info I recieved directly from someone who should and does know what they are talking about.
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      02-16-2007, 05:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
I don't think so. This happened this past Saturday. Martin definitely said the new M3 would be available in the US "next year". Now he is a native German speaker, so maybe he meant to say something else in English but simply chose imprecise words. I do not think that is what happened. Don't get me wrong -- I want the new M3 to be available here this year, and not "next year." I am just passing info I recieved directly from someone who should and does know what they are talking about.

Perhaps you could ask him how come BMW is taking orders in their internal ordering system for E92 M3 cars in 2 colors at this point for production week slots allocated in May 2007?

Best regards,

Jussi
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      02-16-2007, 05:57 PM   #39
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According to my notes international launch for the new M3 Coupe is still the IAA in Frankfurt this coming September . With european sales commencing afterwards and if any delays - late 2007. USA sales are still down for Spring 2008. How you are getting demo cars when the production car marketing photography and film shoot has not even commenced yet ?
I am sorry but i can access BMW network and I do not find any customer/dealer information out of the internal structure for ordering the
M3 as the status still remains "in development". and classified within BMW AG.
All dealers will have to go with is advance material but not full specifications .
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      02-16-2007, 06:03 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
According to my notes international launch for the new M3 Coupe is still the IAA in Frankfurt this coming September . With european sales commencing afterwards and if any delays - late 2007. USA sales are still down for Spring 2008. How you are getting demo cars when the production car marketing photography and film shoot has not even commenced yet ?
I am sorry but i can access BMW network and I do not find any customer/dealer information out of the internal structure for ordering the
M3 as the status still remains "in development". and classified within BMW AG.
All dealers will have to go with is advance material but not full specifications .
ouch...
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      02-16-2007, 06:03 PM   #41
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Hi Jussi and others, I want to interject here and thank those that bring helpful info to the forum that we wouldn't otherwise have. No sense in beating up anyone for trying to help. I always look forward to reading someone's QUALIFIED information. I believe Jussi , SCOTT26, and others appear to be QUALIFIED. Unfortunately , the two listed above offer differing info. We ALL want the M3 here, now! Don't beat up these guys because it might not be what you want to hear. I know I usually don't post, I just read, but that is because I truly don't have any pertinent info to offer. Maybe others could reduce their tendencies to post for the sake of posting...
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      02-16-2007, 06:20 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK42 View Post
Perhaps you could ask him how come BMW is taking orders in their internal ordering system for E92 M3 cars in 2 colors at this point for production week slots allocated in May 2007?

Best regards,

Jussi
I can't do that because I do not know him personally. He gave a presentation I attended, and I had a chance to ask him some questions. I got his full name from another attendee -- Martin Birkmann. He is currently M Brand Manager for BMW NA.
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      02-16-2007, 09:15 PM   #43
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Like I keep telling you all. I love BMW cars, but the production cycle that they have for their cars are just stupid. We have been waiting for the M3 for how long now, and now they say they aint ready yet..bull shit...Lexus got them scared and so does benz... ..not that I would buy either, I wouldn't for any reason.....but to continue to space out the damn introductions does not help.. they have been talking about the E93 convertible for months now.. .no prices...bs, get on the fricking ball BMW...:mad: ...because I would buy a porsche and not skip a beat this I promise, and a used 911...is still on par

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      02-16-2007, 09:55 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
I can't do that because I do not know him personally. He gave a presentation I attended, and I had a chance to ask him some questions. I got his full name from another attendee -- Martin Birkmann. He is currently M Brand Manager for BMW NA.
You tell Martin that I've got a WOMD and I'm not afraid to use it if the M3 isn't for sale in the US by the end of this year. Got that!?
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