BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
BPM Sport
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-11-2007, 02:30 PM   #1
sparky325i
New Member
9

 
Drives: 2006 325i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canada


Posts: 14
iTrader: (0)

New M3 horsepower will most likely be less than 420 hp

I have been on the waiting list for the new M3 at my local dealer for over a year and anticipating the new M3, hopefully it will be here before 2008.

A lot of members are referencing historical data regarding release dates and other data and it is widely assumed that the new M3 will have more horsepower than the current Audi RS4 which is rated at 420 hp. 440 hp has been mentioned a lot.

The E36 M3 was rated at 240 hp and the Audio S4 at the time was a 2.7 TT with 250 hp. The E46 M3 was 333 hp, the Audi S4 at the time was a 4.2l V8 at 340 hp. Of note, the M3 was always lighter and faster none the less.

Assuming we regard the RS4 in the same light as the S4s before it, the new M3 will have less than 420 hp, but should be faster and lighter.

Ken,
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2007, 02:58 PM   #2
m_bazeepaymon
Major
71

 
Drives: 2008 E92 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Los Angeles


Posts: 1,075
iTrader: (4)

Send a message via AIM to m_bazeepaymon
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky325i View Post
I have been on the waiting list for the new M3 at my local dealer for over a year and anticipating the new M3, hopefully it will be here before 2008.

A lot of members are referencing historical data regarding release dates and other data and it is widely assumed that the new M3 will have more horsepower than the current Audi RS4 which is rated at 420 hp. 440 hp has been mentioned a lot.

The E36 M3 was rated at 240 hp and the Audio S4 at the time was a 2.7 TT with 250 hp. The E46 M3 was 333 hp, the Audi S4 at the time was a 4.2l V8 at 340 hp. Of note, the M3 was always lighter and faster none the less.

Assuming we regard the RS4 in the same light as the S4s before it, the new M3 will have less than 420 hp, but should be faster and lighter.

Ken,
you have a great point but audi was always coming out with their models after the M3's...
B7 S4 came out after the E46 M3 with 340 hp...
my opinion is that i think the E92 will have more than 420.... but if its less it will be 414-420...
__________________


ZzZzZ'er
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2007, 04:03 PM   #3
swamp2
Lieutenant General
United_States
324

 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA


Posts: 10,201
iTrader: (1)

One data point

An interesting point about BMW vs Audi hp. I strongly disagree though.

There is solid engineering reasoning to support a MINIMUM of 424 hp (actual). Of course since BMW has some history of under rating who knows where the brochure number will end up (and I don't really care too much). Have a look at my post here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...t=44852&page=3 . Let me know if you think my reasoning is faulty.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2007, 04:47 PM   #4
Jimmern
Enlisted Member
18

 
Drives: 118d
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Norway


Posts: 45
iTrader: (0)

415 HP in euro spec 99% for sure.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2007, 04:54 PM   #5
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
628

 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany


Posts: 6,748
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmern View Post
415 HP in euro spec 99% for sure.
It was said to get 426HP, but 415 are also acceptable... Do you have information about CF roof and EDC??

Best regards, south
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2007, 09:27 PM   #6
swamp2
Lieutenant General
United_States
324

 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA


Posts: 10,201
iTrader: (1)

Minumum or actual brochure number?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmern View Post
415 HP in euro spec 99% for sure.
Calling 99% for an exact number is pretty bold. What is your source or reasoning?
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2007, 10:02 PM   #7
The CSL
For the love of ///M3
United Kingdom
13

 
The CSL's Avatar
 
Drives: Peugeot 306 XSI 16v
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Plymouth, UK


Posts: 660
iTrader: (0)

E36 in Europe = 280 something and 321bhp compared to 250bhp S4
E46 in Europe = 343bhp compared to 344bhp S4
E92 in Europe = 420bhp compared to 414bhp RS4?

Seems likely us Europeans will get a higher output than the RS4, because M don't want to have lost that battle with this generation and at some point during its lifespan, the next RS4 with 450bhp+...

And that's the crux, this M3 has to compete with the next RS4 as well and unless they bring out an EVO model, going for less than the current RS4 would leave them with a massive marketing disadvantage and that doesn't sell cars to the non-hardcore drivers set.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2007, 10:07 PM   #8
cntlaw
Major General
Hong Kong
164

 
cntlaw's Avatar
 
Drives: 330i E90 C55 AMG
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hong Kong


Posts: 6,875
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
The coming C63 is claimed to have 450hp, I trust a M3 V8 with 420hp will still beat the C63 in straight if not, they will still be pretty close.
__________________
BMW 2006 330i E90 Jet Black/Black Leathers/Aluminium, Steptronic Active Steering; MTech Aero Kit Carbon Fibre Splitters/Diffuser. Bilstein PSS9 Coilover, Rays VOLK Racing RE30 Formula Limited Edition 18" Pirelli Rosso; Project Mu 355mm Forged 4pot Caliper. HID:Osram D1S 6000K, PIAA 6500K White Ring, Philips Diamond Vision HB4 5000K, PIAA H490/H491 Super Bright 6500K LED Interior Lights. Chrome S.Wheel Cover, Rear Windows Sunshades.
Appreciate 0
      02-12-2007, 08:39 AM   #9
Seneca
New Member
2

 
Drives: 2001 325i Sport
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sparta, NJ


Posts: 29
iTrader: (0)

Horsepower to weight ratio is what is really important here, not pure horsepower. Lighter weight will give a car more improved dynamics than just adding more horsepower.
Appreciate 0
      02-12-2007, 11:22 AM   #10
carnuts3
Lieutenant
14

 
Drives: 2008 535i
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Connecticut


Posts: 408
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmern View Post
415 HP in euro spec 99% for sure.
March 2007 Motor Trend Magazine is claiming the new M3 will have approx 410 hp.
Appreciate 0
      02-12-2007, 03:26 PM   #11
swamp2
Lieutenant General
United_States
324

 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA


Posts: 10,201
iTrader: (1)

Details?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carnuts3 View Post
March 2007 Motor Trend Magazine is claiming the new M3 will have approx 410 hp.
Is that mag out yet? How about a scan of the blurb/article? Thanks!
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2007, 10:20 AM   #12
sparky325i
New Member
9

 
Drives: 2006 325i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canada


Posts: 14
iTrader: (0)

The good news is the HP will be at least 400 hp, let's hope the weight is good.

The horsepower will be over 400 hp and will have a lot more torque than the previous M3s, being a V8. Let's hope it will weigh close to 3400 lbs. That's a power to weight of 8.5 lbs/hp, which would be really nice.

This is all speculation, but somehow just chatting about the car helps with the wait, at least it feels like it does. Maybe forgetting about it until it arrives is the best way to "deal", there really is nothing we can do to expedite the release.

Ken,
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2007, 10:28 AM   #13
ILC32
Lieutenant
28

 
ILC32's Avatar
 
Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere


Posts: 580
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky325i View Post
The horsepower will be over 400 hp and will have a lot more torque than the previous M3s, being a V8. Let's hope it will weigh close to 3400 lbs. That's a power to weight of 8.5 lbs/hp, which would be really nice.

This is all speculation, but somehow just chatting about the car helps with the wait, at least it feels like it does. Maybe forgetting about it until it arrives is the best way to "deal", there really is nothing we can do to expedite the release.

Ken,
I'm thinking the car will weigh 3650 or more.
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2007, 11:22 AM   #14
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
628

 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany


Posts: 6,748
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
I'm thinking the car will weigh 3650 or more.
You're so pessimistic...

Best regards, south
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2007, 11:38 AM   #15
phrozen06
NA V8
38

 
phrozen06's Avatar
 
Drives: 01 330ci, 08 M3 DCT, 08 VW R32
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 3927'33"N 7758'04"W W. Virgina, Kansas


Posts: 1,541
iTrader: (2)

The torque numbers will tell the story. If bmw can deliver the V8 with more torque than the hp then you'll have something special.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2007, 11:41 AM   #16
RandyB
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
17

 
RandyB's Avatar
 
Drives: '03 330i, '09 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas


Posts: 1,504
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
I'm thinking the car will weigh 3650 or more.
It probably will with utter rubbish such as a sunroof, I-drive, navigation, flappy-panel gearbox, etc.

I want a 'stripper' myself for the purist in me.
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2007, 11:43 AM   #17
RandyB
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
17

 
RandyB's Avatar
 
Drives: '03 330i, '09 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas


Posts: 1,504
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by phrozen06 View Post
The torque numbers will tell the story. If bmw can deliver the V8 with more torque than the hp then you'll have something special.
They can't without turbocharging, and they will keep it naturally aspirated. Torque will be around 300 lb/ft if the engine delivers 400 hp or so.
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2007, 11:46 AM   #18
ILC32
Lieutenant
28

 
ILC32's Avatar
 
Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere


Posts: 580
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
You're so pessimistic...

Best regards, south
I know, I admit it! Maybe it is because I would rather be pleasantly surprised rather than disappointed.

But the 335 coupe is listed at 3571 by BMW on its website. I think the V8, larger brakes, larger wheels and tires, and suspension changes will increase overall weight even if M tries to cut weight elsewhere such as by using cf or composite body parts.

Who knows, though -- maybe the car will have ceramic brakes, a cf roof and other weight-saving features (like Flexray ) that will enable the car to weigh less than the 335!
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2007, 12:41 PM   #19
cntlaw
Major General
Hong Kong
164

 
cntlaw's Avatar
 
Drives: 330i E90 C55 AMG
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hong Kong


Posts: 6,875
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky325i View Post
The horsepower will be over 400 hp and will have a lot more torque than the previous M3s, being a V8.
Ken,

Yes!
I really don't mind the M3 is 400hp, even 50hp less than C63, so long the price is more affordable than the C63. There is no replacement for displacement , a V8 is a V8, the M3 will have plenty of torque, at any speed range comes in handy. If weight is issue, we can wait for the E92 M3 CSL version About weight, my 330i E90 is 1560kg, my C55 is 1650kg, I say, the M3 E92 is somehere in between. Fanatics will always cut the roof and replace the hood with CF.
__________________
BMW 2006 330i E90 Jet Black/Black Leathers/Aluminium, Steptronic Active Steering; MTech Aero Kit Carbon Fibre Splitters/Diffuser. Bilstein PSS9 Coilover, Rays VOLK Racing RE30 Formula Limited Edition 18" Pirelli Rosso; Project Mu 355mm Forged 4pot Caliper. HID:Osram D1S 6000K, PIAA 6500K White Ring, Philips Diamond Vision HB4 5000K, PIAA H490/H491 Super Bright 6500K LED Interior Lights. Chrome S.Wheel Cover, Rear Windows Sunshades.
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2007, 01:10 PM   #20
The CSL
For the love of ///M3
United Kingdom
13

 
The CSL's Avatar
 
Drives: Peugeot 306 XSI 16v
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Plymouth, UK


Posts: 660
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
It probably will with utter rubbish such as a sunroof, I-drive, navigation, flappy-panel gearbox, etc.

I want a 'stripper' myself for the purist in me.
I never understood why people added all the A/C, Radio and Navi stuff back into CSLs. Mine would have stayed the way M intended.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2007, 06:31 PM   #21
Trpltrbl
Enlisted Member
0

 
Trpltrbl's Avatar
 
Drives: Fast
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NC


Posts: 32
iTrader: (0)

Because they can. Like I have said before, there is a lot of talk on this forum.
I see very little action.
I highly doubt there is any poster here that would spent the money on a CSL just to take it to the track, mostly because many here just dream and can't buy.
But in the meantime telling the ones that can, how much the hate what they do.
If you want to be a purist get this
It's going to be cheaper, faster and a pure track/ streetcar
__________________
If there is dissatisfaction with the status quo, good. If there is ferment,
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2007, 06:45 PM   #22
Trpltrbl
Enlisted Member
0

 
Trpltrbl's Avatar
 
Drives: Fast
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NC


Posts: 32
iTrader: (0)

For the "purist" out there. Here are some numbers on that car.

Engine 1.8 liter inline-4
Weight 2057 lbs
Aspiration supercharger & intercooler
Torque 158.6 lb-ft @ 5500 rpm
HP 218 hp @ 7800 rpm
HP/Weight 9.5 lbs per hp
HP/Liter 121.4 hp per liter
0-100 mph 9.98 seconds
0-60 mph 4.1 seconds
Top Speed 148 mph
__________________
If there is dissatisfaction with the status quo, good. If there is ferment,
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST