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      03-15-2010, 10:51 AM   #23
742
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Shpirate,

You are a conundrum man. So you are in here saying things like tax cuts are great, and that health care for all of the citizens is bad. Bad because someone like your parents will have to pay maybe 3% more in tax, not because it effects your directly, only people connected to you. Yet you are planning on joining the US military, a "company" that is solely funded by taxes. You are a funny man. I would figure someone who is joining in the military would want that military funded. Guess your convictions for you parents hanging onto their dough is stronger than your want for the military to have dough.
Oh, he will want the military funded. After all his healthcare has to be paid for.

However feel a little compassion for him. If he does not make it to 20 years (and his thinking seems to be a little rigid to make O-6, IMO), or his wife has a pre-existing condition before hitting Medicare, he will get a fast and brutal education about American healthcare. I work almost exclusively with ex-military people, and I see this over and over.

They say a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged. On the other side of the coin nothing beats the American Health Insurance industry when it comes to changing the world view of middle aged conservatives.
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      03-15-2010, 11:16 AM   #24
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Shpirate,

You are a conundrum man. So you are in here saying things like tax cuts are great, and that health care for all of the citizens is bad. Bad because someone like your parents will have to pay maybe 3% more in tax, not because it effects your directly, only people connected to you. Yet you are planning on joining the US military, a "company" that is solely funded by taxes. You are a funny man. I would figure someone who is joining in the military would want that military funded. Guess your convictions for you parents hanging onto their dough is stronger than your want for the military to have dough.
I think your confusion stems from a false premise, conservatives are not anarchists. I believe in small government that performs functions legitimate to government not in no government at all.

The argument is about the proper role of government. The legitimacy of the federal government funding the Army is not in question. It is right there in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. You can argue about the level of funding but not the legitimate nature of it. The same cannot be said for this health care bill. Nowhere in the Constitution is Congress empowered to tax one person to provide health insurance to another. It may be something you want the federal government to do but the Constitution does not authorize it and the people do not want it. This is simply a naked power grab.

As for whether I personally will be affected immediately by it is not relevant. I am a citizen, a taxpayer, and a voter, so I get a say.
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      03-15-2010, 11:23 AM   #25
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Oh, he will want the military funded. After all his healthcare has to be paid for.

However feel a little compassion for him. If he does not make it to 20 years (and his thinking seems to be a little rigid to make O-6, IMO), or his wife has a pre-existing condition before hitting Medicare, he will get a fast and brutal education about American healthcare. I work almost exclusively with ex-military people, and I see this over and over.

They say a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged. On the other side of the coin nothing beats the American Health Insurance industry when it comes to changing the world view of middle aged conservatives.
Of course I want the military funded. Defense is the primary function of the federal government.

My health care will be funded because it is part of the compensation I receive for the job I am doing.

For the record, my father served and has a service connected disability and my mother has a back condition that dates from their time in the service. Neither my father nor my mother has ever had a problem obtaining coverage for their conditions after he left active duty (he did not retire) from non-governmental insurance providers. I don't know who you are dealing with but their situations do not reflect that of my parents or any of their friends from the Army who have since left.
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      03-15-2010, 05:43 PM   #26
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blah blah blah... Nowhere in the Constitution is Congress empowered to tax one person to provide health insurance to another. It may be something you want the federal government to do but the Constitution does not authorize it and the people do not want it...
You are correct, it doesn't say that. Also it doesn't specifically say that the federal gov't is supposed to build and maintain an interstate highway system for motor vehicles either.

Odd that you'd choose the words the people do not want it. I could understand a lot of people don't want it. But you do understand that there actually people in this country that are FOR health care reform. The possibility to get 30 million uninsured citizens to have some type of safety net for their health coverage is a benefit for our society, not a burden.
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      03-15-2010, 07:25 PM   #27
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You are correct, it doesn't say that. Also it doesn't specifically say that the federal gov't is supposed to build and maintain an interstate highway system for motor vehicles either.

Odd that you'd choose the words the people do not want it. I could understand a lot of people don't want it. But you do understand that there actually people in this country that are FOR health care reform. The possibility to get 30 million uninsured citizens to have some type of safety net for their health coverage is a benefit for our society, not a burden.
Have you looked at public opinion polls? Did you see what happened in MA? The people do not want this bill. If they did, Obama, Pelosi, Reid, et al would not be forced into this kind of legislative bribery and procedural shenanigans to get it through.

How many of those 30 million qualify for medicaid? How many simply choose not to purchase it? How is this a legitimate concern of the federal government?

My copy of the Constitution does say that the Congress can establish post roads.
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      03-16-2010, 01:21 AM   #28
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I think that few would argue that some form of reform is needed with the existing healthcare system. However, why is it that the current bill is the bill to pass? There are people that are adamant about having this bill pass but its largely part of an infant attempt at major, modern reform of the existing system that is being forced down the throats of not only everyone on Capital Hill but our fellow countrymen/women. While it is not favored by the majority of the American populous, it is a large part of the current administrations agenda & campaign platform. Personally, it comes across to me as being akin to the classic, stereotypical "trust me" line spoken by a used car salesman. Pass the bill and we'll work it out afterwards? Huh? For anyone working in industry, that equates to management wanting to take credit for something whether its complete or not.

Although it is hypocritical for the GOP to cry foul over the use of reconciliation, I do not disagree them in this instance. This is a very big deal that impacts all of us in so many ways; both obvious and not so obvious. It is a program that, no doubt, will be a heavy burden to the nation's finances. At a time when we have a national debt is almost as bad as my golf score, high unemployment, free falling property values, etc..., how is this more important than stemming the problems that were "in existence when I [Obama] got here."

Policy this extensive takes time and should not be forced through as it is. The fruit of the reform wouldn't be seen for a very long time from now anyways. Taking time to flush out more details is in the noise ("never time to do it right the first time, always time to fix it later"). Having great national healthcare doesn't mean a thing if when're broke.

Personally, health care reform should be taking a backseat to the economy and our national debt. Without people getting jobs to go back to, its just exacerbating those that are working to pay more welfare, albeit in new form, to those that aren't. I would also note that domestic jobs are needed (I am not fond of watching us develop nations that are not our friends).
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