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      03-07-2010, 01:57 PM   #23
pmeloche
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This thread is failing big time.
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      03-07-2010, 03:51 PM   #24
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This thread is failing big time.
Why? Because YOU say so? Ah Canada....the other North American country.
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      03-07-2010, 05:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by BMWCadet View Post
The GTS isn't only about the 4.4l engine. If BMW wants to reenergize M3 sales, they replace the 4.0l. If not, then this generation will end rather quietly because no one's knocking down doors to buy whats out there right now.

Also people need to stop living as if its the year 2002. The competition has caught up. Straightline or not, people are going the C63 route because it has a lot more power and 90% of the owners out there will never take their cars to the track anyway so straightline performance is all that matters to them.

If they released the 4.4l engine, i'd be at the dealer the next day and i'm sure i'm not the only one. Yeah, there will be a lot of angry owners, but so what? Its a business and businesses are hurting right now.
You dont really seem to grasp what the BMW M Division is about.

They were originally about creating a track car for the road. The E30 M3 was built as a road going DTM car. The brand has evolved over the years, some would say to the detriment of the brand, into a softer car, one that panders to those who dont want a race car. The brand has evolved, but its race heritage is still there.

But the M division has always been about creating "the ultimate driving machine" Its never cared about being the fastest, or having the most power. The sort of drivers that care about this, arent the M3s target market.

You say that for owners that dont track their car, theres little use for handling. But you have to remember the M3 is sold worldwide, and although you guys have mainly big long straight roads, elesewhere in the world, we can enjoy a good handling car without a race track. Heres the best example

[u2b]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TEKd1kePye8&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TEKd1kePye8&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/u2b]

I have roads like those in the 2nd half of the clip about half an hours drive away from my house. Our meets are usually a race up to the top of one of these hills / mountains, and we go driving round the tight twisty rounds that snake through them. Its like having a miniature version of pikes peak on your doorstep. On roads like those, you cant even use the full 400bhp, let alone the 440bhp.

BMW has always been about creating a great driving experience. There are plenty of places elsewhere in the world where the handling can be enjoyed outside of the race track. And these will account for far more sales than the U.S. Market. BMW's biggest market is still germany itself.

The day BMW introduces the 4.4 V8 to tempt back buyers who bought a C63 because it had more power is the day i eat my hat, live on youtube lol. Its just not what the brand is about.

as for sales, the M division accounts for such a small percentage of their total sales, they just dont give a damn. WHen people are queing up to buy normal BMWs

http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/43100...r-january-2010

What reason have they got to mess around and upset existing M3 customers trying to chase a few more ? Put simply, the M division doesnt need the extra sales.

Last edited by MrLOL; 03-08-2010 at 06:23 PM.
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      03-07-2010, 05:38 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Clubsport in the UK = Competition Package in the USA

And the author of that old CS article was incorrect in stating that the CS -or even the CSL- wheels were forged. Both wheels were spun cast.

Unless BMWNA takes the Clubsport name as a distinct version (extra "racing" features) of the M3 in the USA then it will continue be the ZCP here in the USA.
thats my point

the O.P. was getting excited supposing that this "clubsport" pack meant they would be selling bits from the GTS. It wont be, it will just be the competition pack with a few tweaks etc..

Oh and the author of that article is probably the biggest car magazine in the UK. If they got any facts wrong, its because BMW got it wrong. Big mainstream magazines like evo just repeat what they are told in the press pack.

Quick search shows that BMW UK were marketing them as Forged

http://www.bmwgallery.co.uk/bmwmpowe...mw-e46-m3.html

So blame BMW for that one.
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      03-07-2010, 07:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLOL View Post
You dont really seem to grasp what the BMW D Division is about.

...
D Division?
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      03-07-2010, 07:35 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLOL View Post
You dont really seem to grasp what the BMW D Division is about.

They were originally about creating a track car for the road. The E30 M3 was built as a road going DTM car. The brand has evolved over the years, some would say to the detriment of the brand, into a softer car, one that panders to those who dont want a race car. The brand has evolved, but its race heritage is still there.

But the M division has always been about creating "the ultimate driving machine" Its never cared about being the fastest, or having the most power. The sort of drivers that care about this, arent the M3s target market.

You say that for owners that dont track their car, theres little use for handling. But you have to remember the M3 is sold worldwide, and although you guys have mainly big long straight roads, elesewhere in the world, we can enjoy a good handling car without a race track. Heres the best example

[u2b]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TEKd1kePye8&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TEKd1kePye8&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/u2b]

I have roads like those in the 2nd half of the clip about half an hours drive away from my house. Our meets are usually a race up to the top of one of these hills / mountains, and we go driving round the tight twisty rounds that snake through them. Its like having a miniature version of pikes peak on your doorstep. On roads like those, you cant even use the full 400bhp, let alone the 440bhp.

BMW has always been about creating a great driving experience. There are plenty of places elsewhere in the world where the handling can be enjoyed outside of the race track. And these will account for far more sales than the U.S. Market. BMW's biggest market is still germany itself.

The day BMW introduces the 4.4 V8 to tempt back buyers who bought a C63 because it had more power is the day i eat my hat, live on youtube lol. Its just not what the brand is about.

as for sales, the M division accounts for such a small percentage of their total sales, they just dont give a damn. WHen people are queing up to buy normal BMWs

http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/43100...r-january-2010

What reason have they got to mess around and upset existing M3 customers trying to chase a few more ? Put simply, the M division doesnt need the extra sales.
So explain the X5M and X6M genius.
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      03-08-2010, 04:34 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
D Division?
Not BMW ///Motorsport, but BMW ///Dieselsport. I am serious, it is going to come in the next 1 Series F2x and maybe 3 Series F3x.
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      03-08-2010, 06:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCadet View Post
So explain the X5M and X6M genius.
the X5M and the X6M are the cars that the M division of a few years ago swore they'd never make.

However BMW are comming to realise that they can leave cars like the m3 to be the ultimate driving machine, while cashing in on the M brand to sell a hot X5 or X6 and generate them stacks of cash.

They dont need to up the power of the M3 to chase buyers who just want outright speed. They have the X5M and X6M to do that now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
D Division?
sorry thats my Bad typing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Not BMW ///Motorsport, but BMW ///Dieselsport. I am serious, it is going to come in the next 1 Series F2x and maybe 3 Series F3x.
Judging by the BMW concept cars they've banded about

they will skip diesels and skip straight to a hybrid M Car.

Ferrari and porsche have both debuted hybrid sportcars at the geneva motorshow. How relevant this hybrid technology is, is up for debate. But i think its the concession required to keep the eco freaks at bay.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/08/bmw-concept/

Last edited by MrLOL; 03-08-2010 at 06:30 PM.
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      03-08-2010, 08:15 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Pitkis View Post
GTS Ring time will be around 7:30-7:25 according to the lastest information. Remember E46 CSL with 7:50 time using almost 10 years old tire technology. MY 2011 GTS absolutely _should_ make 7:30 in order to achieve a reasonable result.

Ferrari 599XX is claimed to run Ring under 7:00, ordinary 599 GTB making about 7:47. That's figure to compare.
Hang on. You told him to put the skids on guessing what the M1 would be then proceed to guess what the CSL will do by making assumptions about a car that weighted 105kg (230lb) less??

One rule for everyone. Lets wait until they run one round the ring and see how it does.
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      03-08-2010, 08:23 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCadet View Post
The GTS isn't only about the 4.4l engine. If BMW wants to reenergize M3 sales, they replace the 4.0l. If not, then this generation will end rather quietly because no one's knocking down doors to buy whats out there right now.

Also people need to stop living as if its the year 2002. The competition has caught up. Straightline or not, people are going the C63 route because it has a lot more power and 90% of the owners out there will never take their cars to the track anyway so straightline performance is all that matters to them.

If they released the 4.4l engine, i'd be at the dealer the next day and i'm sure i'm not the only one. Yeah, there will be a lot of angry owners, but so what? Its a business and businesses are hurting right now.

Agreed. I'd be camping outside to place an order.
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      03-08-2010, 09:47 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by BMWCadet View Post
Why? Because YOU say so? Ah Canada....the other North American country.
And the USA is the other one. That makes 2. So what's your point?
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      03-09-2010, 09:19 AM   #34
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If BMW M puts the 4.4l V8 in to the M3, it will maybe run the Ring in 7:55-7:50 min, but it will never be a M3 GTS with its 7:30-7:25 min.
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