What to do in Iraq?

[dr335is]

Ganeil, although I completely disagree with your views, I did point out many times that I really enjoy going against you here and listening to your views. You obviously do not enjoy listening to the views against Bush and his admin.
Well, maybe you're right and (NOW ALREADY) 70% of Americans are wrong. Maybe 90% of the World is wrong. Maybe 90% of the World "envy" us on our standards of living and that is the reason they disagree with our foreign politics??? BS!!!

Bush has done it wrong from the beginning -- from his very first speach after the 911 events -- Axis of Evil. Now, because of that speach we have 2 dictatorships with nukes developed and the third country that is in complete chaos and ruins.
On top of all that, we have American population that is clearly unhappy with the leadership and the war in Iraq.
We have the record deficit for a few years in a row.
We're happy now that the gas is <$2...but most of us forget that a few years back it was <$1 (sure, it was more than $2 20 years ago, too)...
Bush won the previous election with the motto that Kerry was a flip-flopper. Look at him now- he lost the Senate and the House and -- flip-flop...then he realized all of the sudden that things are not going right in Iraq. Then, but previously ignored the fact that 3000 of our soldiers are dead and 300,000 of Iraqis are dead.
The economy is definitely NOT strong at all. The stock market is not a good indicator of it. Looks at the major corporations -- most of them on hiring freeze, pay increases less than the official inflation ratio, Future outlooks are not that great. Actually, most of the big companies stock did not come back that much from 4 or 5 years ago.
And then, Bush has made our lives filled with the terror fears and this war. The USA, this huge power did not move forward in last 6 years...we're sitting where we were prior to 911 and all we hear about is this damn Iraq war and Bin Laden's brother being killed and crap like that.

I don't get it where you get all that positive stuff about Bush and current admin??? And then, why is 70% of us and the rest of the World uninformed about that???

ANyway, you can continue with your ignorant comments about my hatred for the President. I don't hate him, I just want him and his ideas out of our lives. He's done nothing good for our country and enough is enough...

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by ganeil

Why do you insist on inserting your irrational nonsense into a discussion that does not involve you? I have shown repeatedly that your views on this matter are based solely on a hatred of President Bush and are not worthy of reply.

Show me that Intel -- from anyone else but USA and Brits. We all want to see it. Then, we may continue this. Otherwse...all fabricated...

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Show me that Intel -- from anyone else but USA and Brits. We all want to see it. Then, we may continue this. Otherwse...all fabricated...

GERMAN INTELLIGENCE ON MOBILE LABS.

AFP reported on 1 February that the German intelligence service BND reportedly has evidence that Iraq's mobile laboratories are capable of producing chemical and biological weapons, according to a 3 February report in the German weekly magazine "Focus." The report notes that the laboratories are hidden in trucks that appear completely normal on the outside and that the Iraqi government even purchased equipment for the labs in Germany, AFP noted. Germany took over the presidency of the UN Security Council from France on 1 February.

SPANISH PRIME MINISTER SAYS HE HAS 'EVIDENCE' THAT IRAQ IS A THREAT.

Jose Maria Aznar told the Spanish news agency Europa Press that he has confidential information which proves the Iraqi regime of President Husayn represents a threat to "peace, world security, and to Spain," according to a report on the website of "El Pais" (http://www.elpais.es/). Aznar told Europa Press that all governments "Have information that Saddam Husayn's regime, from the biological and chemical weapons it has and its links to terrorist groups, does in effect represent a threat to peace, to world security, and to Spain. We have sufficient evidence to that effect," Aznar said. (Kathleen Ridolfo)

Assessment of Iraq's Capabilities

On the eve of the war, Israeli intelligence on Iraqi capabilities resembled its counterparts in the United States and other Western countries. It had not received any information regarding weapons of mass destruction and surface-to-surface missiles for nearly eight years, since the defection of Kamel Hussein led to the discovery of the Iraqi biological program, other than the informed suspicion that Iraq was deceiving the international community regarding its program for developing longer range Sumud surface-to-surface missiles in claiming that they were permitted by UN resolutions.

The intelligence community had to choose between two alternative assessments. The first was that Iraq still had SSM and WMD capability and continued to maintain related projects, but had succeeded very adeptly at concealing them, and therefore the intelligence-gathering means of Israel and the Western world were unable to uncover them. The second explanation was that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and the UN inspection commission (UNSCOM) succeeded through great efforts in disarming Iraq of weapons of mass destruction and long-range ballistic missiles, as well as preventing the resumption of their development and Iraq's armament until 1998. After supervision by these bodies was halted in that year, Iraq decided not to renew its activity in these areas, at least at that time, out of fear of the response of the United States and the international community were such activity to be revealed. Israeli intelligence adopted the first explanation without any signs of doubt regarding its validity.

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Ganeil, although I completely disagree with your views, I did point out many times that I really enjoy going against you here and listening to your views. You obviously do not enjoy listening to the views against Bush and his admin.
Well, maybe you're right and (NOW ALREADY) 70% of Americans are wrong. Maybe 90% of the World is wrong. Maybe 90% of the World "envy" us on our standards of living and that is the reason they disagree with our foreign politics??? BS!!!

Bush has done it wrong from the beginning -- from his very first speach after the 911 events -- Axis of Evil. Now, because of that speach we have 2 dictatorships with nukes developed and the third country that is in complete chaos and ruins.
On top of all that, we have American population that is clearly unhappy with the leadership and the war in Iraq.
We have the record deficit for a few years in a row.
We're happy now that the gas is <$2...but most of us forget that a few years back it was <$1 (sure, it was more than $2 20 years ago, too)...
Bush won the previous election with the motto that Kerry was a flip-flopper. Look at him now- he lost the Senate and the House and -- flip-flop...then he realized all of the sudden that things are not going right in Iraq. Then, but previously ignored the fact that 3000 of our soldiers are dead and 300,000 of Iraqis are dead.
The economy is definitely NOT strong at all. The stock market is not a good indicator of it. Looks at the major corporations -- most of them on hiring freeze, pay increases less than the official inflation ratio, Future outlooks are not that great. Actually, most of the big companies stock did not come back that much from 4 or 5 years ago.
And then, Bush has made our lives filled with the terror fears and this war. The USA, this huge power did not move forward in last 6 years...we're sitting where we were prior to 911 and all we hear about is this damn Iraq war and Bin Laden's brother being killed and crap like that.

I don't get it where you get all that positive stuff about Bush and current admin??? And then, why is 70% of us and the rest of the World uninformed about that???

ANyway, you can continue with your ignorant comments about my hatred for the President. I don't hate him, I just want him and his ideas out of our lives. He's done nothing good for our country and enough is enough...

I also enjoy our discussions, on global warming for instance, but on this issue you are irrational. You continue to present unsubstantiated conjecture as fact (Bush knew their was no WMD) and conspiracy theories as reasonable causes for world events. You have repeatedly shown yourself incapable of accepting substantiated facts that conflict with your pre-conceived notions.

I simply do not wish to waste my time discussing this issue with you any longer.

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by ganeil

I also enjoy our discussions, on global warming for instance, but on this issue you are irrational. You continue to present unsubstantiated conjecture as fact (Bush knew their was no WMD) and conspiracy theories as reasonable causes for world events. You have repeatedly shown yourself incapable of accepting substantiated facts that conflict with your pre-conceived notions.

I simply do not wish to waste my time discussing this issue with you any longer.

One more Q before we wrap up:
If Bush was correct, if this war is justified, if we're doing the best we can, if the economy and our lives are peachy (GA expression)...then why are Bush's ratings so low and why are we critisized by every other nation in the world??? Either my perception of Bush is correct, or 6.5 billion of us are wrong...

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by ganeil

GERMAN INTELLIGENCE ON MOBILE LABS.

AFP reported on 1 February that the German intelligence service BND reportedly has evidence that Iraq's mobile laboratories are capable of producing chemical and biological weapons, according to a 3 February report in the German weekly magazine "Focus." The report notes that the laboratories are hidden in trucks that appear completely normal on the outside and that the Iraqi government even purchased equipment for the labs in Germany, AFP noted. Germany took over the presidency of the UN Security Council from France on 1 February.

SPANISH PRIME MINISTER SAYS HE HAS 'EVIDENCE' THAT IRAQ IS A THREAT.

Jose Maria Aznar told the Spanish news agency Europa Press that he has confidential information which proves the Iraqi regime of President Husayn represents a threat to "peace, world security, and to Spain," according to a report on the website of "El Pais" (http://www.elpais.es/). Aznar told Europa Press that all governments "Have information that Saddam Husayn's regime, from the biological and chemical weapons it has and its links to terrorist groups, does in effect represent a threat to peace, to world security, and to Spain. We have sufficient evidence to that effect," Aznar said. (Kathleen Ridolfo)

Assessment of Iraq's Capabilities

On the eve of the war, Israeli intelligence on Iraqi capabilities resembled its counterparts in the United States and other Western countries. It had not received any information regarding weapons of mass destruction and surface-to-surface missiles for nearly eight years, since the defection of Kamel Hussein led to the discovery of the Iraqi biological program, other than the informed suspicion that Iraq was deceiving the international community regarding its program for developing longer range Sumud surface-to-surface missiles in claiming that they were permitted by UN resolutions.

The intelligence community had to choose between two alternative assessments. The first was that Iraq still had SSM and WMD capability and continued to maintain related projects, but had succeeded very adeptly at concealing them, and therefore the intelligence-gathering means of Israel and the Western world were unable to uncover them. The second explanation was that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and the UN inspection commission (UNSCOM) succeeded through great efforts in disarming Iraq of weapons of mass destruction and long-range ballistic missiles, as well as preventing the resumption of their development and Iraq's armament until 1998. After supervision by these bodies was halted in that year, Iraq decided not to renew its activity in these areas, at least at that time, out of fear of the response of the United States and the international community were such activity to be revealed. Israeli intelligence adopted the first explanation without any signs of doubt regarding its validity.

See above...
Again an empty shot...
I could make the Chem and Bio stuff in my garage...
The spanish guy says he got some Intel...he could have gotten it from the Brits or so...does not prove anything.
As for the Israelis...no comment...

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by dr325i

One more Q before we wrap up:
If Bush was correct, if this war is justified, if we're doing the best we can, if the economy and our lives are peachy (GA expression)...then why are Bush's ratings so low and why are we critisized by every other nation in the world??? Either my perception of Bush is correct, or 6.5 billion of us are wrong...

President Bush's approval rating depends almost entirely on the public's perception of how the war is going in Iraq. Clearly the last few months have seen a marked increase in violence in Iraq and many Americans are frustrated by this. Thankfully we have a President who appreciates the fact that fighting a war is hard and success in war requires flexibility and endurance. The enemy changed its tactics on us last year and it has taken us too long to respond to that change but that is the nature of war. I would hate to think of what this country or the world would look like if the US threw in the towel at every military setback.

As for the economy, I am curious to know what economic benchmarks you use to judge it as anything less than stellar? Unemployment low, wages up, inflation low, interest rates low, growth strong and steady, stocks high, what more do you want?

One further point about this horrible economy since you seem obsessed with public opinion.

U.S. Workers Expect Strong Job Market in 2007
December 20, 2006

U.S. workers are quite optimistic about their job prospects and the employment market for 2007, as nearly eight in ten (78 percent) expect the situation to be as good as, if not better than, this year. Attesting to their faith in the market, 39 percent of workers already indicate that it is very or somewhat likely that they will be actively seeking a new job in 2007. This is according to a new survey by Hudson.

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by ganeil

President Bush's approval rating depends almost entirely on the public's perception of how the war is going in Iraq. Clearly the last few months have seen a marked increase in violence in Iraq and many Americans are frustrated by this. Thankfully we have a President who appreciates the fact that fighting a war is hard and success in war requires flexibility and endurance. The enemy changed its tactics on us last year and it has taken us too long to respond to that change but that is the nature of war. I would hate to think of what this country or the world would look like if the US threw in the towel at every military setback.

As for the economy, I am curious to know what economic benchmarks you use to judge it as anything less than stellar? Unemployment low, wages up, inflation low, interest rates low, growth strong and steady, stocks high, what more do you want?

One further point about this horrible economy since you seem obsessed with public opinion.

U.S. Workers Expect Strong Job Market in 2007
December 20, 2006

U.S. workers are quite optimistic about their job prospects and the employment market for 2007, as nearly eight in ten (78 percent) expect the situation to be as good as, if not better than, this year. Attesting to their faith in the market, 39 percent of workers already indicate that it is very or somewhat likely that they will be actively seeking a new job in 2007. This is according to a new survey by Hudson.

WOW, and you call me IRRATIONAL...

1) APPROVALS
It has a lot to do with Iraq, but his approval rating is low in EVERY category -- economy, every day life, Iraq...everything. Actually, only Nixon has hit lower in last 50 years of any president. Even (impeached) Clinton has never dipped below 37%!

2) MILITARY TACTICS
OK, you will forget again another important thing -- Bush was saying -- "Stay the course", do not change anything until he lost the Senate and House. Only then, he desided to change his approach. And people were unhappy with Iraq for months before that.

3) IRAQ VIOLENCE
Last year???? What are you talking about??? THere was violence in Iraq since the Dummie landed on the carrier in 2003...

4) ECONOMY
You look at the numbers. Inflation is calculated using many, many pointers, most of which do not apply to the regular person. What I care about is the cost of living -- milk, bread, food, gas, electricity, property taxes, medical insurance, car/property insurance... Those are the only indicators of inflation for a regular (middle class) person. Everything on my list above has gone much, much more than 3.5% up, and the salaries definitely did not follow closely. Therefore, do not be fooled by the numbers

Unemployment -- again, you're looking at the data wrong. If I am an engineer and could not find job in my area, I had to start working in a local grocery store or so, therefore -- I am working to survive. Bush logs that as employed, but that is very different

Stock markets -- are at their highest, but as I mentioned many times -- look at the lows of the majors -- MSFT, INTC, IBM, TXN, ADI, GE...they did not gain 100% from the lows as did Dow and NASDAQ. THe economy artificially looks good -- it is not. I work for one of those majors and last 2 quarters we're on hiring freeze, and restricted travel, etc...but our numbers look great on paper...

Interest Rates -- low rates do not indicate good economy (see rates 4 years ago). We will see what will happen soon when the ARM and Interest Only terms expire...

Wages -- are up slightly! The actual income FELL by 3.4% from 2000 to 2003. Now, we're trying to catch up (http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/bp154). Average Tech salary increase for the year is ~3%, where there was no inclrease or was a drop 3 years ago.

I am not sure where are you getting all that nice picture about all that...

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by dr325i

WOW, and you call me IRRATIONAL...

1) APPROVALS
It has a lot to do with Iraq, but his approval rating is low in EVERY category -- economy, every day life, Iraq...everything. Actually, only Nixon has hit lower in last 50 years of any president. Even (impeached) Clinton has never dipped below 37%!

January 17, 2007
Public's Perceptions About Iraq Keeping Down Bush's Job Approval Rating
Bush approval remains in mid-30s, despite improved economic ratings

by Lydia Saad

GALLUP NEWS SERVICE

PRINCETON, NJ -- President George W. Bush's latest job approval rating from the American people remains about where it stood a week earlier -- notable because it means his recent televised national address about Iraq did nothing to repair his public image. Bush's approval rating for his handling of Iraq, specifically, is even lower, something that appears to be preventing Bush from getting a broader benefit from the fact that Americans have grown a bit more favorable about his handling of the economy, and about economic conditions more generally...

2) MILITARY TACTICS
OK, you will forget again another important thing -- Bush was saying -- "Stay the course", do not change anything until he lost the Senate and House. Only then, he desided to change his approach. And people were unhappy with Iraq for months before that.

If by "Stay the Course" you mean we have an objective and we will stay and fight until we are successful, then I do not believe the President has abandoned it at all. If by "Stay the Course" you are referring to changing strategies on how to attain the objective then he has brought in a new team that has different ideas. I consider that a strength in a leader, not a weakness. If there is a weakness to be seen here, it is the amount of time it took to make the change. Of course there may well have been reasons other than US elections for the timing of the change like getting Prime Minister Maliki to agree but I would not be shocked to learn that politics played a role.

3) IRAQ VIOLENCE
Last year???? What are you talking about??? THere was violence in Iraq since the Dummie landed on the carrier in 2003...

There has been violence in Iraq for at least the past 20 years but I was referring to the change in focus that bombing of the al-Askari Mosque in Samarra inaugurated last year. Prior to this the violence was largely focused on US and Iraqi security forces. The al-Askari bombing was the catalyst for the sectarian violence that has wracked Baghdad for the past year. It is not US casualties that have have markedly increased in the past year (the monthly average for the year is about the same as the previous year), it is the level of violence in Baghdad that has. Since the reporters in Iraq are in Baghdad, this increased violence has been what Americans have seen and grown weary of.

4) ECONOMY
You look at the numbers. Inflation is calculated using many, many pointers, most of which do not apply to the regular person. What I care about is the cost of living -- milk, bread, food, gas, electricity, property taxes, medical insurance, car/property insurance... Those are the only indicators of inflation for a regular (middle class) person. Everything on my list above has gone much, much more than 3.5% up, and the salaries definitely did not follow closely. Therefore, do not be fooled by the numbers

I guess you are right, the things the CPI measures have no relation to real people.

The CPI represents all goods and services purchased for consumption by the reference population (U or W) BLS has classified all expenditure items into more than 200 categories, arranged into eight major groups. Major groups and examples of categories in each are as follows:

* FOOD AND BEVERAGES (breakfast cereal, milk, coffee, chicken, wine, service meals and snacks)
* HOUSING (rent of primary residence, owners' equivalent rent, fuel oil, bedroom furniture)
* APPAREL (men's shirts and sweaters, women's dresses, jewelry)
* TRANSPORTATION (new vehicles, airline fares, gasoline, motor vehicle insurance)
* MEDICAL CARE (prescription drugs and medical supplies, physicians' services, eyeglasses and eye care, hospital services)
* RECREATION (televisions, pets and pet products, sports equipment, admissions);
* EDUCATION AND COMMUNICATION (college tuition, postage, telephone services, computer software and accessories);
* OTHER GOODS AND SERVICES (tobacco and smoking products, haircuts and other personal services, funeral expenses).

Also included within these major groups are various government-charged user fees, such as water and sewerage charges, auto registration fees, and vehicle tolls. In addition, the CPI includes taxes (such as sales and excise taxes) that are directly associated with the prices of specific goods and services.

I mean who eats, drives, goes to the doctor, or gets a haircut?

Unemployment -- again, you're looking at the data wrong. If I am an engineer and could not find job in my area, I had to start working in a local grocery store or so, therefore -- I am working to survive. Bush logs that as employed, but that is very different

Maybe you are just not a good engineer and stocking grocery shelves is more your speed. To suggest that the government should measure employment by whether or not a person is working in the field he would like to is a bit bizarre. Think of the level of "unemployment" NYC and So California would have if all those actors waiting tables were counted as unemployed.

Stock markets -- are at their highest, but as I mentioned many times -- look at the lows of the majors -- MSFT, INTC, IBM, TXN, ADI, GE...they did not gain 100% from the lows as did Dow and NASDAQ. THe economy artificially looks good -- it is not. I work for one of those majors and last 2 quarters we're on hiring freeze, and restricted travel, etc...but our numbers look great on paper...

The markets are not good because some blue chips are not where you think they should be??? Companies exist to make money for their shareholders. If it takes hiring freezes and travel restrictions to make that money, so be it. You cannot realistically judge the state of a $13 trillion economy on your personal experience.

Interest Rates -- low rates do not indicate good economy (see rates 4 years ago). We will see what will happen soon when the ARM and Interest Only terms expire...

Low rates are better than high rates.

Wages -- are up slightly! The actual income FELL by 3.4% from 2000 to 2003. Now, we're trying to catch up (http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/bp154). Average Tech salary increase for the year is ~3%, where there was no inclrease or was a drop 3 years ago.

Do you mean to say that wages fell during a recession? I am shocked that such a thing would happen. Has anything like that occurred before?

Again, you can't judge a $13 trillion economy on whether or not you and your friends got a good raise.

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by ganeil

January 17, 2007
Public's Perceptions About Iraq Keeping Down Bush's Job Approval Rating
Bush approval remains in mid-30s, despite improved economic ratings

by Lydia Saad

GALLUP NEWS SERVICE

PRINCETON, NJ -- President George W. Bush's latest job approval rating from the American people remains about where it stood a week earlier -- notable because it means his recent televised national address about Iraq did nothing to repair his public image. Bush's approval rating for his handling of Iraq, specifically, is even lower, something that appears to be preventing Bush from getting a broader benefit from the fact that Americans have grown a bit more favorable about his handling of the economy, and about economic conditions more generally...

If by "Stay the Course" you mean we have an objective and we will stay and fight until we are successful, then I do not believe the President has abandoned it at all. If by "Stay the Course" you are referring to changing strategies on how to attain the objective then he has brought in a new team that has different ideas. I consider that a strength in a leader, not a weakness. If there is a weakness to be seen here, it is the amount of time it took to make the change. Of course there may well have been reasons other than US elections for the timing of the change like getting Prime Minister Maliki to agree but I would not be shocked to learn that politics played a role.



There has been violence in Iraq for at least the past 20 years but I was referring to the change in focus that bombing of the al-Askari Mosque in Samarra inaugurated last year. Prior to this the violence was largely focused on US and Iraqi security forces. The al-Askari bombing was the catalyst for the sectarian violence that has wracked Baghdad for the past year. It is not US casualties that have have markedly increased in the past year (the monthly average for the year is about the same as the previous year), it is the level of violence in Baghdad that has. Since the reporters in Iraq are in Baghdad, this increased violence has been what Americans have seen and grown weary of.



I guess you are right, the things the CPI measures have no relation to real people.

The CPI represents all goods and services purchased for consumption by the reference population (U or W) BLS has classified all expenditure items into more than 200 categories, arranged into eight major groups. Major groups and examples of categories in each are as follows:

* FOOD AND BEVERAGES (breakfast cereal, milk, coffee, chicken, wine, service meals and snacks)
* HOUSING (rent of primary residence, owners' equivalent rent, fuel oil, bedroom furniture)
* APPAREL (men's shirts and sweaters, women's dresses, jewelry)
* TRANSPORTATION (new vehicles, airline fares, gasoline, motor vehicle insurance)
* MEDICAL CARE (prescription drugs and medical supplies, physicians' services, eyeglasses and eye care, hospital services)
* RECREATION (televisions, pets and pet products, sports equipment, admissions);
* EDUCATION AND COMMUNICATION (college tuition, postage, telephone services, computer software and accessories);
* OTHER GOODS AND SERVICES (tobacco and smoking products, haircuts and other personal services, funeral expenses).

Also included within these major groups are various government-charged user fees, such as water and sewerage charges, auto registration fees, and vehicle tolls. In addition, the CPI includes taxes (such as sales and excise taxes) that are directly associated with the prices of specific goods and services.

I mean who eats, drives, goes to the doctor, or gets a haircut?



Maybe you are just not a good engineer and stocking grocery shelves is more your speed. To suggest that the government should measure employment by whether or not a person is working in the field he would like to is a bit bizarre. Think of the level of "unemployment" NYC and So California would have if all those actors waiting tables were counted as unemployed.



The markets are not good because some blue chips are not where you think they should be??? Companies exist to make money for their shareholders. If it takes hiring freezes and travel restrictions to make that money, so be it. You cannot realistically judge the state of a $13 trillion economy on your personal experience.



Low rates are better than high rates.



Do you mean to say that wages fell during a recession? I am shocked that such a thing would happen. Has anything like that occurred before?

Again, you can't judge a $13 trillion economy on whether or not you and your friends got a good raise.

Very nice, but again completely wrong...

1) Wages fell in the resession -- not a necessary thing -- mine didn't, it actually went up. And a lot of people I know -- the same. You cannot assume these things.

2) I am not basing my personal judgement on "some" company, I am basing on the 3rd semiconductor in the world. Our sales are healthy and up a lot -- tells you again something about inflation. The numbers look healthy, but we all know...

3) Now, for the CPI that you sorted up there. Where do you live??? Don't you see the reality??? Forget about the numbers on FOX or who knows where. It is very clear that the everyday prices are way up compared to last year or the year before, way above the average salary increase....simple as that.

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Very nice, but again completely wrong...

1) Wages fell in the resession -- not a necessary thing -- mine didn't, it actually went up. And a lot of people I know -- the same. You cannot assume these things.

2) I am not basing my personal judgement on "some" company, I am basing on the 3rd semiconductor in the world. Our sales are healthy and up a lot -- tells you again something about inflation. The numbers look healthy, but we all know...

3) Now, for the CPI that you sorted up there. Where do you live??? Don't you see the reality??? Forget about the numbers on FOX or who knows where. It is very clear that the everyday prices are way up compared to last year or the year before, way above the average salary increase....simple as that.

If you wish to substitute personal anecdotes for statistical analysis performed by trained professionals, you are free to do so. Knowledgeable and reasonable people do otherwise.

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by ganeil

If you wish to substitute personal anecdotes for statistical analysis performed by trained professionals, you are free to do so. Knowledgeable and reasonable people do otherwise.

My Q is how you get your info? From O'Riley guy?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16922582/

Clearly the income did not grow 9% as you once claimed -- you can see that it grew less than 3.5%. Plus, all the savings are gone which means either that the prices are higher, or we're all gone crazy...

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by dr325i

My Q is how you get your info? From O'Riley guy?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16922582/

Clearly the income did not grow 9% as you once claimed -- you can see that it grew less than 3.5%. Plus, all the savings are gone which means either that the prices are higher, or we're all gone crazy...

Which statistics? Most of the economic data I refer to come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics or the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

[Iguy]

Tell me ganeil, whats your opinion of the UN?

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by Iguy

Tell me ganeil, whats your opinion of the UN?

That is a pretty broad question. I would have to separate it into how I feel about each main component to give a complete answer. The General Assembly is a generally harmless entity that serves a very limited purpose as a meeting place for representatives of nations that would otherwise eschew contact with each other. It is often viewed as possessing a moral authority that it should not be have. Given the non-representative nature of a large portion of the governments represented it can not and should not be given the weight of "speaking for the world." The Durban Conference and the "Zionism is Racism" fiasco are examples of what General Assembly actions that should be denied any moral weight.

The International Court of Justice is a potentially dangerous threat to national sovereignty that I would like to see either eliminated or better yet reorganized, not as a court but as a mediation center.

The Secretariat is a hopeless collection of third rate bureaucrats who are generally as corrupt as they are inept. It is an organization is need of a complete overhaul.

The important work of the UN is thankfully left to the Security Council. Although I would not agree with all the decisions made by the Security Council and believe the council would benefit from an adjustment in membership, it is an organization that I believe the world is better for having.

[Iguy]

Given the non-representative nature of a large portion of the governments represented it can not and should not be given the weight of "speaking for the world.

Then who speaks for the world? Who rearranges the UN, the US? The UN is the closest thing we have on the "pulse" of the world. This is where nations voice their concerns, police them if you will. You don't agree with the UN simply because it doesn't serve your mandate no? Justification for attacking Iraq. Unfortunately another reason why Terror and would be terrorist will never stop, because of these views.

Is there another entity, where by people can voice concerns of the world? Nothing is perfect, including the UN, however bottom line is that the US and UK attacked Iraq against the UN's wishes. The two most powerful nations in the world, thumbs the UN and attacks anyhow. Why?

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by Iguy

Then who speaks for the world? Who rearranges the UN, the US? The UN is the closest thing we have on the "pulse" of the world. This is where nations voice their concerns, police them if you will. You don't agree with the UN simply because it doesn't serve your mandate no? Justification for attacking Iraq. Unfortunately another reason why Terror and would be terrorist will never stop, because of these views.

Is there another entity, where by people can voice concerns of the world? Nothing is perfect, including the UN, however bottom line is that the US and UK attacked Iraq against the UN's wishes. The two most powerful nations in the world, thumbs the UN and attacks anyhow. Why?

Ah, let me guess...he'll point out the resolution from 1990 that applies indefinitely because US says so...
There will always be terror (or resistance) present if one nation tries to control the world or the region. You can call them terrorists, insurgency, separatists, or whatever you want...

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by Iguy

Then who speaks for the world? Who rearranges the UN, the US? The UN is the closest thing we have on the "pulse" of the world. This is where nations voice their concerns, police them if you will. You don't agree with the UN simply because it doesn't serve your mandate no? Justification for attacking Iraq. Unfortunately another reason why Terror and would be terrorist will never stop, because of these views.

Is there another entity, where by people can voice concerns of the world? Nothing is perfect, including the UN, however bottom line is that the US and UK attacked Iraq against the UN's wishes. The two most powerful nations in the world, thumbs the UN and attacks anyhow. Why?

Why do you feel anyone or anything can or needs to speak for the world? The UN exists because the governments of the member states wish it to. My major issue with the UN (and I assume we are speaking of the General Assembly) is the fact that a brutal dictatorship like North Korea has a say equal to that of a government like Canada's that represents its people.

This is the 21st century, do you really think the nations of the world need to meet on the east side of Manhattan to voice their concerns to each other?

I would also take issue with your assertion that the invasion of Iraq was "against the UN's wishes." The invasion was opposed by some UN members and supported by others. There was no UN resolution that condemned the invasion, in fact there is a series of UN resolutions that one can argue authorized it.

Also, the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world???

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Ah, let me guess...he'll point out the resolution from 1990 that applies indefinitely because US says so...

Would you like to educate us all on the shelf life of UN Security Council resolutions? For how long are they effective?

[dr335is]

Originally Posted by ganeil

Would you like to educate us all on the shelf life of UN Security Council resolutions? For how long are they effective?

That one definitely not perceived to be effective otherwise all nations that signed it would agree with this Iraqi war -- not only the uSA and UK

[dr335is]

The lunatic wants another $250B for the Wars...
Is it ever going to stop -- he's going to spend all of our money...

[Iguy]

This is the 21st century, do you really think the nations of the world need to meet on the east side of Manhattan to voice their concerns to each other?

It's because of the 21st century is the reason we need to.

Also, the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world???

China is powerful, however I was talking about the nations from the Democratic world. You don't wanna provoke China. Would you feel the same and support China if they attack Iraq? Please don't draw the "human rights" card with China. They want the oil just as bad. They just don't throw a smoke grenade into the political fray.

Countries that have pulled out:
Nicaragua (Feb. 2004);
Spain (late-Apr. 2004);
Dominican Republic (early-May 2004);
Honduras (late-May 2004);
Philippines (~Jul. 19, 2004);
Thailand (late-Aug. 2004);
New Zealand (late Sep. 2004);
Tonga (mid-Dec. 2004)
Portugal (mid-Feb. 2005);
The Netherlands (Mar. 2005);
Hungary (Mar. 2005);
Singapore (Mar. 2005);
Norway (Oct. 2005);
Ukraine (Dec. 2005);
Japan (July 17, 2006);
Italy (Nov. 2006)

Countries that are sticking around (probably because Bush would have a hissy fit if they did pull out)

UK: 7,200
South Korea: 2,300 ! Hmmm wonder why so many from this country
Australia: 850
Poland: 900
Romania: 865
Denmark: 515
El Salvador: 380
Georgia: 300
Azerbaijan: 150
Bulgaria: 150
Latvia: 136
Albania: 120
Slovakia: 103
Czech Republic: 100
Mongolia: 100
Lithuania: 50
Armenia: 46
Bosnia & Herzegovina: 37
Estonia: 34
Macedonia: 33
Kazachstan: 29
Moldova: 12

Let China get in there. They will throw 1.5 million troops in there and clean it up real good! ..........Joking aside....... See where this war is heading? Call them all quitters if you want. Bottom line, this is the right way this war should be heading.