BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
GTB Performance
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-28-2009, 03:06 PM   #67
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Post/inquire in the reginal CA forum, and people will point out shops in the area.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-28-2009, 03:34 PM   #68
66BM
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: ML63 AMG, E92 M3, E60 M5
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hell

Posts: 324
iTrader: (1)

Suggestion

All stock suspension is capable of 1.9+ so if you aren't tracking the car is there really a need for camber plates. On the other hand, if you want the flexibility of adjustments "on the fly" beyond 2.0 then plates are the way to go. TC Kline makes a set and so do some other race proven companies. Not putting down any companies, just mentioning options. On the track I run 2.0. On an autocross circuit I run 2.4 or so. Just my two cents.


- Stay thirsty my friends..
__________________

Last edited by 66BM; 12-28-2009 at 04:11 PM.
66BM is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-28-2009, 04:44 PM   #69
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

I highly doubt that you will get -1.9 on the stock suspension. Several people have tried, and were only able to get ~-1.3 after removing the pins. If you are lowered significantly, that might be a different story.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-28-2009, 04:58 PM   #70
66BM
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: ML63 AMG, E92 M3, E60 M5
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hell

Posts: 324
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I highly doubt that you will get -1.9 on the stock suspension. Several people have tried, and were only able to get ~-1.3 after removing the pins. If you are lowered significantly, that might be a different story.
I got 1.9 on the left front and 1.8 on the right front. Verified and checked by two race shops, one in NJ and one in VA, prior to the camber plates. It is possible. And yes, I am lowered, cup springs only.
__________________
66BM is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-28-2009, 06:46 PM   #71
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by manonfire View Post
I got 1.9 on the left front and 1.8 on the right front. Verified and checked by two race shops, one in NJ and one in VA, prior to the camber plates. It is possible. And yes, I am lowered, cup springs only.
Yep, lowering would change things. When I say stock suspension, I mean stock springs. With those, folks have not been able to get more than -1.3 or so.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-28-2009, 08:34 PM   #72
VictorH
Lieutenant
 
Drives: '09 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC

Posts: 598
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Yep, lowering would change things. When I say stock suspension, I mean stock springs. With those, folks have not been able to get more than -1.3 or so.

I can confirm that. All stock e90 M3 just had alignment last week. Asked for max neg camber up front and ended up with -1.0 on the left and -1.2 on the right.
Pre-alignment was -0.5 left and -1.2 right. Car with 6,700 miles, no accidents, no curbs or potholes.

Bottom line:
1) Those of you seeing unequal tire wear, check your alignment first.
2) Max stock alignment negative camber (no lowering) is probably -1.2 to -1.4 range (without pulling pins).
3) We probably need to see more data on track tire temps before deciding what the optimal negative camber is for these vehicles (street tires not R-comp).
VictorH is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-28-2009, 10:33 PM   #73
66BM
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: ML63 AMG, E92 M3, E60 M5
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hell

Posts: 324
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Yep, lowering would change things. When I say stock suspension, I mean stock springs. With those, folks have not been able to get more than -1.3 or so.
Yeah, I just had it at this place here in VA. They are doing seats, cage, fire suppressant and adjusting it for the next NASA day in 2 Months! I hate waiting for the next track day.
__________________
66BM is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-01-2010, 01:54 PM   #74
V1.47fan
Major
 
V1.47fan's Avatar
 
Drives: Bay M Vee
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NATIONWIDE

Posts: 1,159
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by manonfire View Post
All stock suspension is capable of 1.9+ so if you aren't tracking the car is there really a need for camber plates. On the other hand, if you want the flexibility of adjustments "on the fly" beyond 2.0 then plates are the way to go. TC Kline makes a set and so do some other race proven companies. Not putting down any companies, just mentioning options. On the track I run 2.0. On an autocross circuit I run 2.4 or so. Just my two cents.


- Stay thirsty my friends..
I don't think TC Kline makes camber plates that'll work with the E92 M3 stock suspension.
__________________
V1.47fan is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-01-2010, 02:08 PM   #75
knifegun
Major
 
knifegun's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Where the weather is always the same

Posts: 1,067
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by manonfire View Post
Stay thirsty my friends..
Lol! I love your signature. I am tracking the car which is why I car about camber. Otherwise, no reason to mess with the car.

I will check regarding the 1.9. I don't need anything aggressive as this is not a track only car but I would like to have better handling (i.e. negative front camber) for the track. Especially for Laguna Seca.

BTW, how much does a square setup (keeping the camber the same) change the pushing characteristics of the M3?
knifegun is offline   Turkmenistan
0
Reply With Quote
      02-11-2010, 07:39 PM   #76
RickyBobby
Lieutenant
 
RickyBobby's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NorCal

Posts: 462
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Let us know if you see any benefit from the additional camber beyond -2.1.
Yes sir there are additional benefits beyond -2.1.
-3 deg is working out great for me.

Last edited by RickyBobby; 07-06-2010 at 11:19 PM.
RickyBobby is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2010, 10:32 AM   #77
von_zoom
Captain
 
von_zoom's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Z06
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North Carolina

Posts: 913
iTrader: (0)

Lucid

Quote:
Not enough miles on them after the camber plates to tell yet...
Any update to this after some miles? Season is about to start and I have to make some decisions.

Thanks, vz

ps - Season is about to start provided we can get out of the snow........
__________________


Previous Track Toy

Last edited by von_zoom; 02-12-2010 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Weather
von_zoom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2010, 10:53 AM   #78
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
Lucid



Any update to this after some miles? Season is about to start and I have to make some decisions.

Thanks, vz

ps - Season is about to start provided we can get out of the snow........
The car's gone. I drove it for ~7000 miles with -2 camber without running into significant uneven wear issues on the street and the track. That strikes me as a happy medium for a street car that will be tracked off and on without worrying about camber re-adjustments.
__________________

Last edited by lucid; 02-12-2010 at 11:13 AM.
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2010, 12:52 PM   #79
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,640
iTrader: (5)

I ran -2.1 on my e46 M3 on the street and never had any wear problems. I was running 265 front tire street and 275 for track. Not sure if that translates to the E9X M3, but I imagine I will have the same results.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-13-2010, 12:30 PM   #80
von_zoom
Captain
 
von_zoom's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Z06
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North Carolina

Posts: 913
iTrader: (0)

[QUOTEThe car's gone. I drove it for ~7000 miles with -2 camber without running into significant uneven wear issues ..........][/quote]

Gone, I won't even ask.
Thanks
vz
__________________


Previous Track Toy
von_zoom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-13-2010, 03:40 PM   #81
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
Gone, I won't even ask.
Thanks
vz
Nothing bad happened. Just traded it in for an M coupe. Will post a comparison later. Don't mean to take this thread off topic...
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-17-2010, 12:09 AM   #82
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,640
iTrader: (5)

For the guys that pulled the front pins, any negative affects so far?
I was discouraged from pulling them from a very reputable race shop.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-20-2010, 11:16 AM   #83
gixxer_kidd
Major
 
Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NNJ

Posts: 1,401
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
2008 m3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
For the guys that pulled the front pins, any negative affects so far?
I was discouraged from pulling them from a very reputable race shop.

Did they say why? I'm also thinking about doing the same.
gixxer_kidd is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-20-2010, 11:51 AM   #84
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,640
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxer_kidd View Post
Did they say why? I'm also thinking about doing the same.
Not really, but it was at Kinetic Motorsport, its a serious race shop. Maybe he was just being cautious.
Im thinking of pulling them soon though. They were able to get -1.4 up front with the pins in. They set the rear to -2.
They had the best equipment and took almost 1.5 hours to do the work. They were extremely careful and thorough with the work.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-20-2010, 12:12 PM   #85
knifegun
Major
 
knifegun's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Where the weather is always the same

Posts: 1,067
iTrader: (0)

I had mine pulled and aligned. The car seems to pull to the right on most roads. I had the alignment checked and it was all correct numbers wise. Also, I had the tires swapped and had the same behavior. The explanation given was that the negative front/back camber makes the car more susceptible to the crown in the road.

Do other people notice the same thing? The shop I went to does great work so I am more concerned there could be something up with my car. Overall, the car pushes less and drives great (aside fromt he pull when I let go of the steering wheel).

BTW, when I let go of the steering wheel, the steering wheel stays stable. It does not move so it is not a centering problem.
knifegun is offline   Turkmenistan
0
Reply With Quote
      05-20-2010, 12:13 PM   #86
66BM
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: ML63 AMG, E92 M3, E60 M5
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hell

Posts: 324
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
Not really, but it was at Kinetic Motorsport, its a serious race shop. Maybe he was just being cautious.
Im thinking of pulling them soon though. They were able to get -1.4 up front with the pins in. They set the rear to -2.
They had the best equipment and took almost 1.5 hours to do the work. They were extremely careful and thorough with the work.
I've had the pins removed for a very long time. I don't drive the car on the road anymore as it is now a dedicated track / autox car, but I've had no issues. With pins pulled and springs alone, I was getting -1.9/-1.8 front and -2.0 rear. I've had the car prepped at numerous race shops and no one has ever said anything about safety or concers..
__________________
66BM is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-20-2010, 03:00 PM   #87
Polak
Son what is your Alibi?
 
Polak's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lawrenceville, NJ/New Orleans, LA

Posts: 24
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Polak Send a message via Skype™ to Polak
Pulled the pins and took it in to get aligned today.

Got -1.7 out of the fronts and -1.9 on the rears, could have gone to 2.0-2.1 on the rears but toe couldn't be zero'd out if it went any higher than 1.9.

Went with 1/16th total toe-in on the fronts.

Notes: E90, Driver in car, and Full tank of gas.
Polak is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-20-2010, 10:57 PM   #88
rzm3
Moderator
 
rzm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 4,601
iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by knifegun View Post
I had mine pulled and aligned. The car seems to pull to the right on most roads. I had the alignment checked and it was all correct numbers wise. Also, I had the tires swapped and had the same behavior. The explanation given was that the negative front/back camber makes the car more susceptible to the crown in the road.

Do other people notice the same thing? The shop I went to does great work so I am more concerned there could be something up with my car. Overall, the car pushes less and drives great (aside fromt he pull when I let go of the steering wheel).

BTW, when I let go of the steering wheel, the steering wheel stays stable. It does not move so it is not a centering problem.
That's a reasonable explanation. Try finding a road that is truly flat to test out if you can.
__________________
E92 M3 DCT - AiM EVO4 Data Logger / AiM SmartyCam HD / KW Competition 2-Way / OMP ARS Racing Seats / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete
rzm3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:08 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST