M3 release/debut schedule and timing

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by Romo

That depends on the fact how many HP BMW wants from the V8, I agree 424 isn`t the problem, they could produce easaly that amount off HP.
I think the problem is the fact that BMW wants 440-450 HP from the 4.0 V8, there is where the challenge is for the new M3. Make the best engine world wide, set a new, verry high, standard for NA engines and leave competitors like the Audi RS4 ( too my best knowledge has a 4.2 Liter engine) way behind

I really think the GT3 has set the new benchmark for HP/liter. They are claiming 415 HP, but the March 07 Car and Driver just tested the 997 GT3 against the 505 HP (and 60 lbs lighter) Z06 and the GT3 was only a smidge behind (0-60 in 3.8 vs. 3.6, 0-100 in 8.7 vs. 8.3 and 1/4 mile of 12.0 @ 118 vs. 11.8@ 122).

As a reference, the normal C6 Vette with 400 HP that weighs just 40 lbs more than the GT3 does 0-60 in 4.5, 0-100 in 9.8 and 1/2 mile in 12.8 @ 114.

C & D's conclusion was that the GT3's 3.6 is UNDERRATED at 415 HP, meaning it may be making even more than 115 HP/liter. Based upon the acceleration numbers I'd say 440 HP is more like it, which is a staggering 122 HP/liter!!

If Porsche can do it, then I fully expect BMW to have their 4 Liter making at least 440 HP!!:rocks:

[devo]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

I really think the GT3 has set the new benchmark for HP/liter. They are claiming 415 HP, but the March 07 Car and Driver just tested the 997 GT3 against the 505 HP (and 60 lbs lighter) Z06 and the GT3 was only a smidge behind (0-60 in 3.8 vs. 3.6, 0-100 in 8.7 vs. 8.3 and 1/4 mile of 12.0 @ 118 vs. 11.8@ 122).

As a reference, the normal C6 Vette with 400 HP that weighs just 40 lbs more than the GT3 does 0-60 in 4.5, 0-100 in 9.8 and 1/2 mile in 12.8 @ 114.

C & D's conclusion was that the GT3's 3.6 is UNDERRATED at 415 HP, meaning it may be making even more than 115 HP/liter. Based upon the acceleration numbers I'd say 440 HP is more like it, which is a staggering 122 HP/liter!!

If Porsche can do it, then I fully expect BMW to have their 4 Liter making at least 440 HP!!:rocks:

So many other factors determine a car's 0-whatever times. I very doubt that the Gt3 is making 122hp/liter.

[coaster]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

C & D's conclusion was that the GT3's 3.6 is UNDERRATED at 415 HP, meaning it may be making even more than 115 HP/liter. Based upon the acceleration numbers I'd say 440 HP is more like it, which is a staggering 122 HP/liter!!

If Porsche can do it, then I fully expect BMW to have their 4 Liter making at least 440 HP!!:rocks:

I think it's a lot harder to get this kind of efficiency (120 HP/liter) out of a V8 engine.

Does anybody know what the highest HP/liter V8 N/A engine is out there?

[swamp2]

It is more about displacement and mass of reciprocating and rotating components. I don't know the record holder for V8 on hp/l but the smaller the displacement the higher the revs and the higher the hp (of course assuming all other engineering top notch). Just look as 1 liter superbikes, ~15k rpm and ~180 hp/l.

[ILC32]

Two big factors in the GT3's accelleration times: Pilot Sport Cup tires and weight distribution (all that weight over the rear tires).

[Smoltz]

Originally Posted by coaster

I think it's a lot harder to get this kind of efficiency (120 HP/liter) out of a V8 engine.

Does anybody know what the highest HP/liter V8 N/A engine is out there?

Upcoming F430 CS is supposdly going to have 520hp out of the 4.3 (putting it right at the 120hp/l mark.

-Adam

[Smoltz]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

I really think the GT3 has set the new benchmark for HP/liter. They are claiming 415 HP, but the March 07 Car and Driver just tested the 997 GT3 against the 505 HP (and 60 lbs lighter) Z06 and the GT3 was only a smidge behind (0-60 in 3.8 vs. 3.6, 0-100 in 8.7 vs. 8.3 and 1/4 mile of 12.0 @ 118 vs. 11.8@ 122).

As a reference, the normal C6 Vette with 400 HP that weighs just 40 lbs more than the GT3 does 0-60 in 4.5, 0-100 in 9.8 and 1/2 mile in 12.8 @ 114.

C & D's conclusion was that the GT3's 3.6 is UNDERRATED at 415 HP, meaning it may be making even more than 115 HP/liter. Based upon the acceleration numbers I'd say 440 HP is more like it, which is a staggering 122 HP/liter!!

If Porsche can do it, then I fully expect BMW to have their 4 Liter making at least 440 HP!!:rocks:

The 997 GT3 is very impressive, but it also goes to show what a monster the E46 M3 CSL is. Look at n'ring times for both cars published by Sport Auto. CSL is only :02 slower despite the fact that it's down 50+ hp (it does weigh less but only by approx 20 kilos)

It'll be interesting to see what the new M3 brings to the table.

-Adam

[devo]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

I really think the GT3 has set the new benchmark for HP/liter. They are claiming 415 HP, but the March 07 Car and Driver just tested the 997 GT3 against the 505 HP (and 60 lbs lighter) Z06 and the GT3 was only a smidge behind (0-60 in 3.8 vs. 3.6, 0-100 in 8.7 vs. 8.3 and 1/4 mile of 12.0 @ 118 vs. 11.8@ 122).

As a reference, the normal C6 Vette with 400 HP that weighs just 40 lbs more than the GT3 does 0-60 in 4.5, 0-100 in 9.8 and 1/2 mile in 12.8 @ 114.

C & D's conclusion was that the GT3's 3.6 is UNDERRATED at 415 HP, meaning it may be making even more than 115 HP/liter. Based upon the acceleration numbers I'd say 440 HP is more like it, which is a staggering 122 HP/liter!!

If Porsche can do it, then I fully expect BMW to have their 4 Liter making at least 440 HP!!:rocks:

Off topic, but I really have to say how much I dislike the goofy "rocks" smiles. Rock on 1980!; Dude!

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by devo

Off topic, but I really have to say how much I dislike the goofy "rocks" smiles. Rock on 1980!; Dude!

Totally OT but funny!

I think of him more as a punk rocker rather than cheesy 80's dude. Oi Oi Oi.

[Jason]

Let's try to keep this thread on-topic Thanks.

[Last E92 M3]

Originally Posted by swamp2

It is not that hard to get the hp, especially for a company who make as good engines as BMW. Here are some of the better hp/l #s around:

Honda S2000: 120
E46 M3: 103
E60 M5: 101 (probably more like 106 based on actual performance, engine is widely regarded as underrated)
F430: 112
RS4: 101
GT3: 115

And just for comparison purposes (not really fair since only 1 liter and much easier to get massive revs: redline = 13,500)
Yamaha R1 sportbike: 180 hp/l

If the displacement stays at exactly 4.0 liters, BMW offers no advances to the M5 heart of the new engine AND the redline stays at 8k even, we can count on 404 - 424 hp. I doubt output is the problem, if any.

Honda S2000 - 2.2L 237HP (Most recent one) and it comes out to be 108hp/l...not 120hp/l
How did you get that number?

[Manz_UK]

Originally Posted by Last E92 M3

Honda S2000 - 2.2L 237HP (Most recent one) and it comes out to be 108hp/l...not 120hp/l
How did you get that number?

coming from a TypeR.
the power on the vtecs is in such a small band anyway.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Last E92 M3

Honda S2000 - 2.2L 237HP (Most recent one) and it comes out to be 108hp/l...not 120hp/l
How did you get that number?

The initial release of the S2000 had the F20C engine, 240hp, 8300 rpm redline, 2.0l. They since have reduced redline to 8k.

[The CSL]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I seen some footage of the M3 negotiating this road in the UAE close to Dubai

http://funnyswf.googlepages.com/worl...iving_road.htm

High performance and track action has been shot at the autodrome in Dubai.
Up against a bright orange sun and mountainscape the white color reflects very well , unfortunately the footage I seen was not edited and you can still here the camera helicopter above but when it get's it proper sound mix and dubbing completed with enhanced soundtrack and some music , It should be astounding and fitting for a car of this calibre.

The scenery is fantastic as is the Iceland footage as you know if you have seen the latest M5 Touring promo on BMW.com that we do not like "Static" promos.

Those pics on that link were featured in Autocar magazine. Stan Papior won an award for that picture with the light trais.

[SCOTT26]

"The mind sets your goals and inspiration. But only your heart gives you the commitment and determination to achieve them...."

[ILC32]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

"The mind sets your goals and inspiration. But only your heart gives you the commitment and determination to achieve them...."

Okay, thanks.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

"The mind sets your goals and inspiration. But only your heart gives you the commitment and determination to achieve them...."

Wow you guys are putting camouflage on more than just your cars. It is on your posts and language as well. What the heck am I missing here

[Hans Delbruck]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Wow you guys are putting camouflage on more than just your cars. It is on your posts and language as well. What the heck am I missing here

Sounds like someone is working up the marketing materials.....

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

Sounds like someone is working up the marketing materials.....

The "No Compromise , No Substitute... The new BMW M3" one from Scott was much better. If this is a leak it is a pretty weak one IMO...

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by swamp2

The initial release of the S2000 had the F20C engine, 240hp, 8300 rpm redline, 2.0l. They since have reduced redline to 8k.

The F20C has a 9000 RPM redline, and a 240 HP power peak at 8300 RPM.

I'd guess the new SAE power ratings for that engine would put it at 235 HP or so, but still the highest for a production car.

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by ILC32

Two big factors in the GT3's accelleration times: Pilot Sport Cup tires and weight distribution (all that weight over the rear tires).

1/4 mile trap speed has to do with HP/weight and overall HP more than it does have to do with traction. 118 MPH in the 1.4 mile in a 3230 lb car means the car has > 415 HP. Or the engine makes 415 HP but there is a lot less driveline loss to the wheels (located just below that engine).

118 MPH trap is about what an F430 Ferrari with 483 HP and the same weight does (depending on the test).

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by swamp2

It is more about displacement and mass of reciprocating and rotating components. I don't know the record holder for V8 on hp/l but the smaller the displacement the higher the revs and the higher the hp (of course assuming all other engineering top notch). Just look as 1 liter superbikes, ~15k rpm and ~180 hp/l.

Superbikes don't weigh much, so they can go with an incredibly short stroke design, which allows for much higher RPMs (16K - 18K redlines) and thus more hp/L, but no torque in the normal drive range.

This engine design would not work in a 3000 lb car - it would never get off the line.