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      01-22-2010, 12:35 AM   #111
powertrip
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Was back.....

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stickys back? haha
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      01-22-2010, 02:29 PM   #112
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Congrats. Shows the superiority of the DCT.
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      01-22-2010, 07:07 PM   #113
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Guys unless your dyno is a Cartec/Maha and has a fan setup like this (capable of 180mph) you're wasting your time on erroneous data:







That's a $1.1M USD setup. You cannot properly and accurately simulate airflow into, over top of, or beneath a car nor simulate load at speed without a true windtunnel type setup.

Thanks
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      01-22-2010, 07:14 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
The MHP C63 (DadC63) is flat out fast and he is a heck of nice guy, zero smack talk. Although they've hit some incredible #'s on the dyno, they do most of their talking with the car, on the strip and with the Vbox, I like that.
Thanks for pointing that out Drew. Like you Keith is a 100% stand-up gentleman and let's his car do the talking.

We've just been accused of running spray on the car on the 11.2X@124+ passes (all of them at 3 diff tracks on 3 diff days) by a competitor, kind of gives you that warm feeling all over

Wait till the sticks go in.

Can't wait to see what yours does with FI!!!


Thanks
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      01-22-2010, 07:18 PM   #115
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First of all, the problems you list are exactly why I created the Dyno Database. It allows you to compare apples-to-apples. Secondly, the problems you list are exactly why SAE-1349 correction standard was created. Go ahead, look over my DynoDB, there's over 120 entries in it. Find those anomalies you're talking about.

http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/DynoDB.html

And for all of those problems you listed above, going to the drag strip amplifies them even further. On a dyno, it's just the car and the conditions, and SAE-1349 normalizes the results. At a drag strip, you don't have SAE-1349, it's just you, the car, and you're at the mercy of the atmospheric conditions (which are all of those you listed above) plus wind speed, wind direction, and density-altitude. Just tell me how meaningful it is to compare raw 1/4 mile times from a guy in Denver Colorado in August versus a guy in Bakersfield in December. I'm not trying to mock you here, but comparing raw 1/4 mile times across anything except the same location and same day (or even outside of the same 15-20-minute window) is scientifically worthless.

And I haven't even begun to discuss the element of driver skill involved that influences these results. If Trap Speed really were the quintessential measurement of a car's performance, then why does it vary so much on the same car on the same day? I've seen the same car on the same day have a 10MPH difference in fastest to slowest Trap Speed. I thought this wasn't supposed to happen! I don't want to sound like a smart-a$$ here, but there's a reason why vendors are smart enough to avoid publishing these performance figures themselves. Of all the chest-beating that's occurred on this forum by all of the devoted customers, show me one vendor (their own included) who has published these numbers! There's a simple reason why they don't: because it's not controlled, it's not scientific, and the driver significantly influences the results. Do you have any 1/4 mile times posted at your company web site?



Bingo. 1/4 mile is all about the skill of the driver. If skill weren't a major element in 1/4 mile results, then nobody would mention this as a reason to do it. You wouldn't be able to increase your skill, if skill weren't an element in the results.
As Mike stated what you've done is cetainly commendable and I wish someone would do the same with all makes, not just MB/AMG.

That being said, 99.99% of the dynos around the world have insufficient airflow especially for a high rpm N/A car. If it can't breathe, it can't make power.

Drag racing skill becomes less of an issue (vs what the car is capable of) after making dozens of passes at different venues with the same driver (auto trans and DRs make it idiot proof).

FWIW, other C63s built by other tuners claim 600 crank HP or thereabout, well, that's what we're making (600-610) and we're trapping 124+, if they're only trapping 118 they are simply not making the power.

Finally one last thing to keep in mind, every 1/4 mile weather correction equation I've ever seen assumes 50% humidity, and we all know that humidity plays an even greater role in actual performance than even temperature. This screws the guys in FL, LA, etc. as they typically see 80%+.


Thanks!
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      01-23-2010, 01:33 AM   #116
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Crap, I missed the part about 1/4 mile times being relevant altogether the first quick read through.

We proudly advertise the fact that we hold the Q/F N/A 63 AMG 1/8th, 1/4 mile, standing mile (VBox), 60-130 (VBox verified as seen on 6speedonline's list), and make the most HP/TQ on dynos with no air.

Each of the above represents a measuring stick based on data. Sure you can pick apart any single test, but held together they can tell you everything.

That being said I wish standing mile races had times and not just traps, because I would regard that to being the ultimate test of straightline speed. The Cartec/Maha in windtunnel would come in a close second (OEMs use this type of dyno and fan setup for emissions testing, fuel economy certification, etc)
Otherwise the next best guage/test for me (as far as judging HP/TQ gains) is the 1/4 mile. Having an automatic trans that makes consistent (albeit slower and I'd much rather have an SMG in the car) shifts on DRs with dedicated racers helps to eliminate quite a few variables.

60-130 is what most consider a "rolling dyno". Gearing is less of a factor (but still plays a solid role in how many shifts it takes to cover the spread) since there is no "launch", traction is "less" of an issue (for most cars, definitely a problem for the faster ones). The Porsche guys love it and honestly I think it's another good way to measure a cars straightline performance.

Again though from personal experience, nothing sells more software/hardware than 1/4 mile results, which gives you 60', 330, 1/8th and 1/4 mile data, speaking in global terms anyway.
Dynos are ridiculously easy to manipulate (as your excellent sticky points out, that should be reposted on every forum on the net btw), the timing equipment is NHRA/IHRA certified, and you have both a timeslip and video as proof--also run a VBox for back up/GPS data.



JMHO


Thanks

Last edited by MHP; 01-23-2010 at 02:16 AM.
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      01-23-2010, 12:18 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHP View Post
Guys unless your dyno is a Cartec/Maha and has a fan setup like this (capable of 180mph) you're wasting your time on erroneous data:

That's a $1.1M USD setup. You cannot properly and accurately simulate airflow into, over top of, or beneath a car nor simulate load at speed without a true windtunnel type setup.

Thanks
Wow. That is a beautiful setup. The guys at GoodspeedPerformance in AZ have a Maha dyno but they dont have that 180MPH fan setup like yours. Would be nice if you guys can run some correlation dynos and see how far off the competition (Dynojet, Mustang, etc) is.
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      01-23-2010, 03:32 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ST06M3 View Post
Wow. That is a beautiful setup. The guys at GoodspeedPerformance in AZ have a Maha dyno but they dont have that 180MPH fan setup like yours. Would be nice if you guys can run some correlation dynos and see how far off the competition (Dynojet, Mustang, etc) is.
Yes they have a nice Maha, but they need fans correct.

I'm going to send a full 63 hardware set (H/C, LTs, Catback, Airboxes, and tune) over to Germany to test on a C63 there for true results for that exact reason.


Thanks!
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      01-26-2010, 08:42 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Meet up with a bunch of MB guys at Sacramento raceway hoping to hit 11's, and the car did it! I managed an 11.9 @ 119 as well, and a bunch of 12 flats ranging from 117-119. The conditions were perfect, the car hooked well and ran fantastic. Here's a short vid of the 11.8 pass that the wifey took for me. Enjoy!
Drew,
I know I'm a month late but I've never been over here on M3post and was just informed of your times and CONGRATS is in order!!!!!!!!!! Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy!! GREAT RUNS!!

Now that you are into the 11's you won't stop modding(not like you were anyway).

My recommendation is to stay N/A as long as you can stand it and there are mods available. I love the N/A set!! Once again, CONGRATS and be safe!!
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      01-26-2010, 09:07 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHP View Post
Guys unless your dyno is a Cartec/Maha and has a fan setup like this (capable of 180mph) you're wasting your time on erroneous data:







That's a $1.1M USD setup. You cannot properly and accurately simulate airflow into, over top of, or beneath a car nor simulate load at speed without a true windtunnel type setup.

Thanks
Wow! Nice setup.
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      01-27-2010, 11:43 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHP View Post
Yes they have a nice Maha, but they need fans correct.

I'm going to send a full 63 hardware set (H/C, LTs, Catback, Airboxes, and tune) over to Germany to test on a C63 there for true results for that exact reason.


Thanks!
Sorry drew, OP, for the OT



Anyways, that is a very nice dyno room you all have there! And, your c63 results in your sig are undeniable. Bravo!
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      01-28-2010, 02:26 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO View Post
Wow! Nice setup.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBoostedBMWM3 View Post
Sorry drew, OP, for the OT


Anyways, that is a very nice dyno room you all have there! And, your c63 results in your sig are undeniable. Bravo!

Thanks guys, much appreciated. It really is a pleasure working with such talented people using facilities like that.

Sorry for the OT Drew!
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      01-28-2010, 02:36 AM   #123
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wow... Drew good job!... long time no talk
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      01-28-2010, 12:07 PM   #124
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wow... Drew good job!... long time no talk
Thanks man! Andre?
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      01-28-2010, 12:18 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dads C63 View Post
Drew,
I know I'm a month late but I've never been over here on M3post and was just informed of your times and CONGRATS is in order!!!!!!!!!! Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy!! GREAT RUNS!!

Now that you are into the 11's you won't stop modding(not like you were anyway).

My recommendation is to stay N/A as long as you can stand it and there are mods available. I love the N/A set!! Once again, CONGRATS and be safe!!
Really appreciate the kind words, that means a lot coming for you Bro! Thank you.
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ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
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