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      01-15-2010, 04:19 PM   #111
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I want to use the brakes that provide the same rate of deceleration that these guys were subjected to
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      01-15-2010, 05:08 PM   #112
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43 G deceleration I cannot believe he was alive, wow
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      01-15-2010, 05:12 PM   #113
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Back on topic please. Thanks.
I wanna pull the trigger on a kit tonight!!
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      01-15-2010, 05:44 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
Would you happen to know which kit is lighter? Which has a stiffer caliper?
I do like the AP rotor better, but I seem to like the Brembo caliper a bit better.
Pedal feel is also a big concern with any aftermaket brake set up.
I don't have all the parts here at the moment to do a proper comparison. If someone has the Brembo weights, the AP numbers are easy to come by.

I do know the current Brembo caliper is a monoblock design, which means it could be a bit lighter. Of course being a monoblock, it will give up in stiffness to a proper 2-piece caliper design. Also, the pads are a bit easier to change on the AP caliper if that is a concern to you for track days. Pad choices are nearly unlimited.

AP's calipers have been benefiting recently by lessons learned in the development of their dominant Radi-Cal racing calipers. Many of the current road car caliper designs have been reviewed and updated. Some of these changes are nearly imperceptible, but nothing has been done that didn't result in a quantifiable improvement in stiffness or strength (or both).

Chris
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      01-15-2010, 09:45 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP Racing - Chris_B View Post
I don't have all the parts here at the moment to do a proper comparison. If someone has the Brembo weights, the AP numbers are easy to come by.

I do know the current Brembo caliper is a monoblock design, which means it could be a bit lighter. Of course being a monoblock, it will give up in stiffness to a proper 2-piece caliper design. Also, the pads are a bit easier to change on the AP caliper if that is a concern to you for track days. Pad choices are nearly unlimited.

AP's calipers have been benefiting recently by lessons learned in the development of their dominant Radi-Cal racing calipers. Many of the current road car caliper designs have been reviewed and updated. Some of these changes are nearly imperceptible, but nothing has been done that didn't result in a quantifiable improvement in stiffness or strength (or both).

Chris
sparkyg weighed his Brembo 365/345 kit.

365 mm slotted rotor 24.5 lbs

6 pot monobloc front caliper 12 lbs

front caliper bracket 2.0 lbs



345 mm slotted rotor 15 lbs

4 pot rear monobloc caliper 8 lbs

Rear caliper bracket 1.5 lbs

All weights measured on digital scale used for shipping so prob +- 0.5 lbs

I believe Tom@EAS weighed his AP kit and posted on M3forum.com, I will see if I can find it.
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      01-15-2010, 09:49 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
sparkyg weighed his Brembo 365/345 kit.

365 mm slotted rotor 24.5 lbs

6 pot monobloc front caliper 12 lbs

front caliper bracket 2.0 lbs



345 mm slotted rotor 15 lbs

4 pot rear monobloc caliper 8 lbs

Rear caliper bracket 1.5 lbs

All weights measured on digital scale used for shipping so prob +- 0.5 lbs

I believe Tom@EAS weighed his AP kit and posted on M3forum.com, I will see if I can find it.
There was a total savings of 9.70lb with the AP7100/7150s over the stock setup.

Weights and overview can be seen in our journal here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...es#post5309854
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      01-15-2010, 09:50 PM   #117
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AP weights posted by Tom@EAS
AP7100 Front Rotor - 22.15lbs
AP7150 Rear Rotor - 18.20lbs
AP7100 Front Caliper - 10.25lb
AP7150 Rear Caliper - 9.85lb
AP7100 Front Caliper Bracket - 1.80lb
AP7150 Front Caliper Bracket - 1.25lb
Results:

Total Rotor/Caliper Weight (stock system) - 136.70lb
Total Rotor/Caliper Weight (AP 7100/7150 AP BBK Brake System) - 127.0lb

Total Weight Savings - 9.70lb

Again, these numbers are courtesy of EAS.
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      01-16-2010, 05:44 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP Racing - Chris_B View Post
I don't have all the parts here at the moment to do a proper comparison. If someone has the Brembo weights, the AP numbers are easy to come by.

I do know the current Brembo caliper is a monoblock design, which means it could be a bit lighter. Of course being a monoblock, it will give up in stiffness to a proper 2-piece caliper design. Also, the pads are a bit easier to change on the AP caliper if that is a concern to you for track days. Pad choices are nearly unlimited.

AP's calipers have been benefiting recently by lessons learned in the development of their dominant Radi-Cal racing calipers. Many of the current road car caliper designs have been reviewed and updated. Some of these changes are nearly imperceptible, but nothing has been done that didn't result in a quantifiable improvement in stiffness or strength (or both).

Chris

Chris,

I am very interested in your front BBK for my e90m3
especially now that you said this kit consists of the same components as you get in Europe.

I will be using this BBK once a month @ the track for HPDE events...
This will consist of 4-5 25min. sessions per event ... and each session will include a warm-up lap, 4-5 hot laps, and a properly slow, cool-down lap (all with in-car video & GPS data logger),

My worry is 'overheating' -- since that was/IS a major issue with the OE brake system (even w race pads, proper fluid & SS Lines).
I would be using Motul 600 and PFC01 pads (if fitment is available).

My question is; what guarantee, warranty and/or support can I expect from AP/Stillen if this BBK overheats (melts components like dust boot seals) and fails to meet my aforementioned expectations ??

And what is the pad shape number for reference?

Thanks
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      01-16-2010, 04:16 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post

... I will be using this BBK once a month @ the track for HPDE events...
This will consist of 4-5 25min. sessions per event ... and each session will include a warm-up lap, 4-5 hot laps, and a properly slow, cool-down lap ...

My worry is 'overheating' -- since that was/IS a major issue with the OE brake system ...

And what is the pad shape number for reference?

Thanks
It will be interesting to see what Chris says, but I thought I'd describe my experience of M3 braking.

First, my track days are different than yours, in that the track opens at 9:00AM for three hours until lunch, then at 1:00PM for three hours until closing. It's open lapping with 24 cars and no run groups - we're all "advanced". My typical day is 200 to 250 miles, depending on which track we're on.

Success for a day like that is all about pacing yourself and the car. If you cook your brakes at 9:15 in the morning, you lose the day. It's a bit like running an enduro - you have to plan ahead and pay attention to the signals the car is sending about how it's doing.

On days like that, my stock brakes with Pagid RS19's, stainless lines and Castrol SRF were "all over the place". Constant vigilance was needed. Brake fifty feet later at the hairpin than last time, you're rewarded with a spongy pedal for the next two laps.

I upgraded my brakes to the AP/Stillen kit in two stages, and I ran one track day with the front-only configuration. It rained in the morning and was dry and hot after lunch.

After I installed the front-only setup the factory rear brakes that I hadn't upgraded were still prone to overheating, and they became the limiting factor in brake management. I've read what Stoptech says, but on my M3, my experience was that the stock rear calipers were still on the brink of fluid breakdown.

The four-wheel setup fixed everything. Balance is perfect and braking is perfect, and I've continued using the Mintex pads that the kits came with. I have a set of Pagid RS29's for them, but I've never been inclined to even try them; the Mintex pads are excellent. Between the AP brakes with Mintex pads and Castrol SRF, my track day prep amounts to changing the tires. I flush the fluid once in the spring and there's no need to bleed during the season. This convenience factor was something I specifically wanted and I got it with the AP/Stillen kit.

Now, I'll admit that maybe it works for me because I'm just naturally easy on brakes. I don't know, but I can say that I'm still on the stock suspension, I haven't taken the front backing plates off and yet I'm running within a second or two a lap of heavily modded E46 M3's.
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      01-16-2010, 04:22 PM   #120
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3 hours or continuous lapping? That's got to be draining, but really fun.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      01-16-2010, 04:45 PM   #121
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Thanks for the feedback JAJ.
Our private lapping days are similar, where its open lapping all day, and only certain ppl are invited.

I ordered the AP kit last night.
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      01-16-2010, 05:02 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
Thanks for the feedback JAJ.
Our private lapping days are similar, where its open lapping all day, and only certain ppl are invited.

I ordered the AP kit last night.
Congratulations! I have had mine on for a couple of months now and can't wait to get on a track with them. I read about JAJ's experiences and felt I also wanted a kit I would not have to change out the pads everys track day. What I have noticed so far is how much more brake feel this kit has than stock. Stock was kind of an on-off switch in comparison.
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      01-16-2010, 06:03 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgdog View Post
Congratulations! I have had mine on for a couple of months now and can't wait to get on a track with them. I read about JAJ's experiences and felt I also wanted a kit I would not have to change out the pads everys track day. What I have noticed so far is how much more brake feel this kit has than stock. Stock was kind of an on-off switch in comparison.
Thanks.
The feedback here was a big help in making my decision. It was between the AP kit and the 365/345 Brembo kit. I have used Brembos on all my last cars and was really happy with them.
Looking forward to trying the APs out.
Did both you guys get rid front and rear heat shields? Does the kit come with good instructions?
I should be hitting Road Atlanta in March with them.
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      01-16-2010, 06:23 PM   #124
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"Did both you guys get rid front and rear heat shields? Does the kit come with good instructions? "

On the advice of my Service Advisor, who races a euro spec e36 M3, I had the front dust shields removed. I don't think JAJ did. For the rear a section is cut out. I'll post some photos.
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      01-16-2010, 06:41 PM   #125
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Do they clear your Volks with lots of room to spare?
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      01-16-2010, 07:53 PM   #126
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Do they clear your Volks with lots of room to spare?
Plenty of room. Volks are brake friendly.
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      01-16-2010, 09:12 PM   #127
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Plenty of room. Volks are brake friendly.
So I have heard.
I might get some D-Force wheels for track.
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      01-16-2010, 10:27 PM   #128
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Is the AP kit 365mm or 380mm in the front? I think I have seen both sizes listed.
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      01-16-2010, 11:56 PM   #129
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Quote:
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Is the AP kit 365mm or 380mm in the front? I think I have seen both sizes listed.
I believe its 368 front and 356 out back.
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      01-17-2010, 12:04 AM   #130
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I believe its 368 front and 356 out back.
You sir are correct.
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      01-17-2010, 05:13 PM   #131
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How much did you guys pay to have the kit installed???
I was quoted $700???? Seems steep to me.
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      01-17-2010, 06:41 PM   #132
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Quote:
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How much did you guys pay to have the kit installed???
I was quoted $700???? Seems steep to me.
What brake fluid are you using.? I purchased the Castrol SRF from my installer. I watched the install and it took most of the day. With the fluid and 10% sales tax it was close to $800.
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