BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
View Poll Results: WHO MAKE THE BEST S65 S/C KIT
G-POWER 10 13.16%
ESS 40 52.63%
GINTANI 30 39.47%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-16-2010, 11:48 PM   #1
Eugene-TAIWAN
Brigadier General
 
Eugene-TAIWAN's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan

Posts: 3,112
iTrader: (4)

Who makes the best S/C kit for the S65

Hi Guys like the thread says I would like see what others think and share what I have personally seen and felt.

Right now I have only seen 3 companies that have this type of kit.

1. G-power has a many vids on their kit and have v-box run vids. Which I think it a good proof that the kit actually works and is fast. Yes they have blown 2 engines in the USA but those are the only SOLID proof that I have seen G-power blowing motors. So on G-power's case there are good and bad things to say on the market.

2. ESS have done a couple of cars. How many I don't know But 1 thing seems to pop in my mind. I have only seen 1 vid of the ESS kit in action and I didn't think it was doing that well. So If ESS people are out there please make some more vids some more v-box runs. At least this way we know what your kit can REALLY do. I think most people don't like guessing.

3. Gintani I have seen in person its very very ROCK solid!!!!!! i have sat in the car and I have seen vids on how fast the car is. Now the only thing is that Gintani has to make is some v-box runs. I also personally seen Gintani have round 6 S65 S/C kits. It seems to me that they have the most S/C kits for the S65 on the US market so far.

So what do you think is the best S/C kit on the market. AND WHY DO YOU THINK ITS THE BEST S/C KIT
__________________

Past: Gintani stage3 M3
present: Porsche 993RWB, 964RS America,996 cupcar, 964 turbo 3.6, 991C4S, i3 in September
Eugene-TAIWAN is offline   Taiwan
0
      01-17-2010, 12:07 AM   #2
J08M3
Major General
 
J08M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

Posts: 6,012
iTrader: (8)

This thread should be kind of funny once everyone starts arguing.....

just like which exhaust is better, or which angel eyes...
__________________
J08M3 is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 12:12 AM   #3
Eugene-TAIWAN
Brigadier General
 
Eugene-TAIWAN's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan

Posts: 3,112
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
This thread should be kind of funny once everyone starts arguing.....

just like which exhaust is better, or which angel eyes...
Hope people don't argue!!!

all I wanted to see is which company has come up with the most vid proof.

unlike an exhaust thread there are too many variables example: the the sound, how the tips look, is there drone.

but with a speed mod. to me its just fast or not fast.
__________________

Past: Gintani stage3 M3
present: Porsche 993RWB, 964RS America,996 cupcar, 964 turbo 3.6, 991C4S, i3 in September
Eugene-TAIWAN is offline   Taiwan
0
      01-17-2010, 12:13 AM   #4
powertrip
Scared money don't make money.
 
powertrip's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Irvine, CA

Posts: 1,458
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2009 E92 M3  [0.00]
There is no "best" SC for the M3, but rather what set-up is "best" for an individual. My money is going with Gintani because they are local, and I personally know Alex. I think the other companies make great kits, but for me the convenience factor was a key mechanism in my decision process.
__________________
2009 E92 M3/DCT/Alpine White/Fox Red/Carbon Leather
OE Tuned 402 whp & 303 wtq/Gintani X-pipe/MXP Axle Back/Rogue Pulley/AFE Stage 2/Cosmetics By IND & EAS
HUGE THANKS: Gintani, OE Tuning, and EAS

Last edited by powertrip; 01-17-2010 at 03:07 AM.
powertrip is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 12:14 AM   #5
Eugene-TAIWAN
Brigadier General
 
Eugene-TAIWAN's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan

Posts: 3,112
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrip View Post
There is no "best" SC for the M3, but rather what set-up is "best" for an individual. My money is going with Gintani because they are local, and I personally know Alex. I think the other companies make great kits, but for me the convenience fator was a key mechanism in my decision process.
Thanks for the honest and great input!!
__________________

Past: Gintani stage3 M3
present: Porsche 993RWB, 964RS America,996 cupcar, 964 turbo 3.6, 991C4S, i3 in September
Eugene-TAIWAN is offline   Taiwan
0
      01-17-2010, 04:01 AM   #6
Ca$hOnly
Major
 
Ca$hOnly's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In ur fridge, eatin ur foodz

Posts: 1,078
iTrader: (5)

It's tough to judge which kit is the best if every tuner only has a couple cars out right now. I'd like to see these kits run for a year or two in normal driving conditions, and I'm sure then we'll be able to separate the pretenders from the contenders.
__________________
Ca$hOnly is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 04:11 AM   #7
McLuVan
Lieutenant General
 
McLuVan's Avatar
 
Drives: ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Socal~818~

Posts: 13,120
iTrader: (1)

vf...



lol
okay okay jk
__________________
McLuVan is offline   Vietnam
0
      01-17-2010, 07:09 AM   #8
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN View Post
Hi Guys like the thread says I would like see what others think and share what I have personally seen and felt.

Right now I have only seen 3 companies that have this type of kit.

1. G-power has a many vids on their kit and have v-box run vids. Which I think it a good proof that the kit actually works and is fast. Yes they have blown 2 engines in the USA but those are the only SOLID proof that I have seen G-power blowing motors. So on G-power's case there are good and bad things to say on the market.

2. ESS have done a couple of cars. How many I don't know But 1 thing seems to pop in my mind. I have only seen 1 vid of the ESS kit in action and I didn't think it was doing that well. So If ESS people are out there please make some more vids some more v-box runs. At least this way we know what your kit can REALLY do. I think most people don't like guessing.

3. Gintani I have seen in person its very very ROCK solid!!!!!! i have sat in the car and I have seen vids on how fast the car is. Now the only thing is that Gintani has to make is some v-box runs. I also personally seen Gintani have round 6 S65 S/C kits. It seems to me that they have the most S/C kits for the S65 on the US market so far.

So what do you think is the best S/C kit on the market. AND WHY DO YOU THINK ITS THE BEST S/C KIT
Eugene,

If you are basing an 'opinion' on which supercharger kit is better (based on Youtube video clips), then your CRITERIA is seriously flawed my friend.

Vids are nice, but they should never be used as definitive 'proof' of anything...

Any supercharged M3 will look fast in a video clip.

Video clips (in general) can be terribly misleading...


I always focus on experience (and a proven track record over time) as the single most important factor in my decision making process.

Bottom Line: Experience in this aftermarket parts category makes a huge difference if you want to avoid serious problems later on.


When you break down your final decision as to which supercharger kit to buy, it should be based on tangible details like:

1) The quality of all the hardware components used (how well they fit and work together)

2) The power the supercharger kit makes at a given boost level. (while maintaining safe AFR's) ; A well designed supercharger kit is not only powerful, but it's also very EFFICIENT. What I mean is...the supercharger that makes excellent power across the entire rev band (with low boost pressure) is a better design. It allows the engine to produce more power with LESS HEAT. (IAT's stay within a manageable range) This is very difficult to achieve, and it requires a lot of good engineering and R&D on the front end of the project.

3) Tuning ability and experience (in-house vs. out-sourced) Our M3's equipped with one of the most sophisticated engine management computers in the world. (Semiens MSS60) Again, experience matters in regards to this specific detail. How many years of experience does the tuner have in writing BMW forced induction software? How many different BMW's has the tuner been able to write forced induction code for? The answers to these questions are very important, and they should have a bearing on which supercharger kit you choose. Tuning is one of the most crucial elements in the performance and safety of any supercharger kit. If the tuning is not spot on, serious engine problems will result. (sooner or later)

4) Ability to avoid (and properly troubleshoot) complex FI induced issues like chronic overheating of the engine or transmission, cold start or poor idle control, cylinder misfires, dangerously lean AFR's, limp mode, poor vacuum or boost leaks, etc.

5) The number of years a given company has been building FI kits for your particular marque brand. (BMW, Mercedes, Audi)

6) The product engineering innovations that were incorporated into the product during the research and development phase. The intercooling method used in the forced induction kit is of particular interest to me, because of it's profound effect on making good consistent power. (without overheating)

7) Was extensive in-house testing done on the FI product (on their own test mules) prior to it's release to the general public. (this is a serious pet peeve of mine! )

7) The company's track record on resolving customer service related issues.

8) The total price of the supercharger kits you are considering.

9) The warranty protection that comes with the supercharger kit. (largely overlooked by many FI customers until it's too late)

10) The amount detailed information (and official product specifications) the company has released to the general pubic. This is the only way you can ever make a true apples-to-apples comparison between a number of competing brands. If this detailed product information is not available (in the public domain), that is usually a red flag IMO. The harder you have to work to find out those important details, the less likely I am to buy a given product. "secrecy" or 'mystery' surrounding a product is not an option when you are asking someone to pony up 10-15 thousand dollars. Every top-tier brand (in any aftermarket performance category) will publish/release the detail of their aftermarket products. (without exception
)


The free flow of information allows the consumer to judge for themselves which product is truly the best option for there individual needs.

Your final decision should be based on the information collected about each of the individual brands you are considering. I caution everyone about allowing your emotions to factor into this process. That is a very dangerous thing, as it will certainly cloud your judgment in these matters.

Take a serious look at all your FI options, DO YOUR HOMEWORK, and choose the best one on based on the above criteria.

Unlike many BMW enthusiasts, I never get caught up in the all hype about a particular product or brand name. I simply take a clinical approach in making my final decision in relation to aftermarket parts. I have always believed this is a much better method, than using unreliable 'feelings' to guide your decision making process. This typically leads to expensive mistakes, that ultimately cause a number of unnecessary headaches down the road.

It is possible to avoid those situations (to a large degree), if a more comprehensive and straight-forward approach was applied to the aftermarket parts you buy.

Unfortunately, most BMW enthusiasts don't apply that type of fundamental logic to parts they choose.

Having tried the "flavor of the month" method EXTENSIVELY (when I was very naive in my early-to mid 20's), I can tell you from personal experience... that approach will result in very unreliable results over the long haul.

It's certainly not the best approach to making important (and expensive) purchase decisions.

I find that most of the clients I deal with are simply 'following the herd' in regards to the products they buy. They actually believe everything they read about the marketing of that product. What's even more troubling than that... is the fact that they can't articulate WHY they are choosing one product over another.

And if they do come up with some reason...it usually amounts to utter nonsense that is not based on any of the factors I listed above. It's based on 'a gut feeling', instead of sound fundamental reasoning.

Now I know my approach is not the cool or hip way to make a decision these days. (in fact it's kind of boring)

But I can promise you this...

It will help you make far fewer mistakes in regards to aftermarket parts you buy.

That means you won't be 'trying out' parts in hopes that you'll end up liking it. (and then trying to unload it in the Parts For Sale section)

Try this approach on the next aftermarket part you buy, and you'll be pleasantly surprised with the outcome.

I rarely buy any part for my car that I end up regretting later.

I extensively research every product I buy in excruciating detail, and I leave no stone unturned.

I remove all the 'mystery' and 'hype' surrounding any FI product, by cutting straight to the details I listed above. (1 through 10)

No muss, no fuss, and most importantly...NO BS.

Bottom Line: Experience in the aftermarket parts business does make a huge difference in the overall quality of the finished product. That experience can help you avoid serious (and expensive) problems later on.

BTW: The only 'emotion' I want to feel...is the joy I get from picking the right aftermarket part the FIRST time around.

Cheers Eugene.
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 07:43 AM   #9
Eugene-TAIWAN
Brigadier General
 
Eugene-TAIWAN's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan

Posts: 3,112
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
There's also the RGM kit.
http://www.rgmotorsport.com/html/bmw_e92_m3.html

And I think there's about equal Gintani and ESS cars in the US -- maybe more ESS kits now that I think about it. Just from reading the ESS thread, it seems like there's one car a week showing up at ESS for a kit installation...but maybe it's the same people posting over and over again. So I compiled this list from memory. I'm sure I missed some, and I will update the list with corrections once they become available:


Gintani:
  • Sticky
  • powertrip
  • sammyrusso
  • niterider
  • Stage-3 low compression customer motor being built now. Not sure he wants his name public.
ESS:
  • biglare
  • m33
  • LV-E92M3
  • Mystery IND Customer-Green (kit sold, not sure if it's installed)
  • Mystery IND Customer-Red (kit sold, not sure if it's installed)
  • Forum lurker from east coast installing this week. Not sure he wants his name public.
Yes you car correct again PG I do know that RGM has a S/C kit but I have not seen a lot. But I must say atleast I have seen more on youtube of this kit then the ESS kit.
__________________

Past: Gintani stage3 M3
present: Porsche 993RWB, 964RS America,996 cupcar, 964 turbo 3.6, 991C4S, i3 in September
Eugene-TAIWAN is offline   Taiwan
0
      01-17-2010, 07:45 AM   #10
Eugene-TAIWAN
Brigadier General
 
Eugene-TAIWAN's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan

Posts: 3,112
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hOnly View Post
It's tough to judge which kit is the best if every tuner only has a couple cars out right now. I'd like to see these kits run for a year or two in normal driving conditions, and I'm sure then we'll be able to separate the pretenders from the contenders.
Yes have the kits on the street that will be good for 1 or 2 yrs is important.

but honestly the only report that I have seen on other forums are G-power & Gintani. And both of these companies have kits over the 10,000 miles and are both DD cars.
__________________

Past: Gintani stage3 M3
present: Porsche 993RWB, 964RS America,996 cupcar, 964 turbo 3.6, 991C4S, i3 in September
Eugene-TAIWAN is offline   Taiwan
0
      01-17-2010, 07:55 AM   #11
Eugene-TAIWAN
Brigadier General
 
Eugene-TAIWAN's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan

Posts: 3,112
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Eugene,

If you are basing an 'opinion' on which supercharger kit is better (based on Youtube video clips), then your CRITERIA is seriously flawed my friend.

Vids are nice, but they should never be used as definitive 'proof' of anything...

Any supercharged M3 will look fast in a video clip.

Video clips (in general) can be terribly misleading...


I always focus on experience (and a proven track record over time) as the single most important factor in my decision making process.

Bottom Line: Experience in this aftermarket parts category makes a huge difference if you want to avoid serious problems later on.


When you break down your final decision as to which supercharger kit to buy, it should be based on tangible details like:

1) The quality of all the hardware components used (how well they fit and work together)

2) The power the supercharger kit makes at a given boost level. (while maintaining safe AFR's) ; A well designed supercharger kit is not only powerful, but it's also very EFFICIENT. What I mean is...the supercharger that makes excellent power across the entire rev band (with low boost pressure) is a better design. It allows the engine to produce more power with LESS HEAT. (IAT's stay within a manageable range) This is very difficult to achieve, and it requires a lot of good engineering and R&D on the front end of the project.

3) Tuning ability and experience (in-house vs. out-sourced) Our M3's equipped with one of the most sophisticated engine management computers in the world. (Semiens MSS60) Again, experience matters in regards to this specific detail. How many years of experience does the tuner have in writing BMW forced induction software? How many different BMW's has the tuner been able to write forced induction code for? The answers to these questions are very important, and they should have a bearing on which supercharger kit you choose. Tuning is one of the most crucial elements in the performance and safety of any supercharger kit. If the tuning is not spot on, serious engine problems will result. (sooner or later)

4) Ability to avoid (and properly troubleshoot) complex FI induced issues like chronic overheating of the engine or transmission, cold start or poor idle control, cylinder misfires, dangerously lean AFR's, limp mode, poor vacuum or boost leaks, etc.

5) The number of years a given company has been building FI kits for your particular marque brand. (BMW, Mercedes, Audi)

6) The product engineering innovations that were incorporated into the product during the research and development phase. The intercooling method used in the forced induction kit is of particular interest to me, because of it's profound effect on making good consistent power. (without overheating)

7) Was extensive in-house testing done on the FI product (on their own test mules) prior to it's release to the general public. (this is a serious pet peeve of mine! )

7) The company's track record on resolving customer service related issues.

8) The total price of the supercharger kits you are considering.

9) The warranty protection that comes with the supercharger kit. (largely overlooked by many FI customers until it's too late)

10) The amount detailed information (and official product specifications) the company has released to the general pubic. This is the only way you can ever make a true apples-to-apples comparison between a number of competing brands. If this detailed product information is not available (in the public domain), that is usually a red flag IMO. The harder you have to work to find out those important details, the less likely I am to buy a given product. "secrecy" or 'mystery' surrounding a product is not an option when you are asking someone to pony up 10-15 thousand dollars. Every top-tier brand (in any aftermarket performance category) will publish/release the detail of their aftermarket products. (without exception
)


The free flow of information allows the consumer to judge for themselves which product is truly the best option for there individual needs.

Your final decision should be based on the information collected about each of the individual brands you are considering. I caution everyone about allowing your emotions to factor into this process. That is a very dangerous thing, as it will certainly cloud your judgment in these matters.

Take a serious look at all your FI options, DO YOUR HOMEWORK, and choose the best one on based on the above criteria.

Unlike many BMW enthusiasts, I never get caught up in the all hype about a particular product or brand name. I simply take a clinical approach in making my final decision in relation to aftermarket parts. I have always believed this is a much better method, than using unreliable 'feelings' to guide your decision making process. This typically leads to expensive mistakes, that ultimately cause a number of unnecessary headaches down the road.

It is possible to avoid those situations (to a large degree), if a more comprehensive and straight-forward approach was applied to the aftermarket parts you buy.

Unfortunately, most BMW enthusiasts don't apply that type of fundamental logic to parts they choose.

Having tried the "flavor of the month" method EXTENSIVELY (when I was very naive in my early-to mid 20's), I can tell you from personal experience... that approach will result in very unreliable results over the long haul.

It's certainly not the best approach to making important (and expensive) purchase decisions.

I find that most of the clients I deal with are simply 'following the herd' in regards to the products they buy. They actually believe everything they read about the marketing of that product. What's even more troubling than that... is the fact that they can't articulate WHY they are choosing one product over another.

And if they do come up with some reason...it usually amounts to utter nonsense that is not based on any of the factors I listed above. It's based on 'a gut feeling', instead of sound fundamental reasoning.

Now I know my approach is not the cool or hip way to make a decision these days. (in fact it's kind of boring)

But I can promise you this...

It will help you make far fewer mistakes in regards to aftermarket parts you buy.

That means you won't be 'trying out' parts in hopes that you'll end up liking it. (and then trying to unload it in the Parts For Sale section)

Try this approach on the next aftermarket part you buy, and you'll be pleasantly surprised with the outcome.

I rarely buy any part for my car that I end up regretting later.

I extensively research every product I buy in excruciating detail, and I leave no stone unturned.

I remove all the 'mystery' and 'hype' surrounding any FI product, by cutting straight to the details I listed above. (1 through 10)

No muss, no fuss, and most importantly...NO BS.

Bottom Line: Experience in the aftermarket parts business does make a huge difference in the overall quality of the finished product. That experience can help you avoid serious (and expensive) problems later on.

BTW: The only 'emotion' I want to feel...is the joy I get from picking the right aftermarket part the FIRST time around.

Cheers Eugene.
Thanks again as always for the honest and non-basis information and suggestions.

1 important thing that you have mentioned is that the customer has to judge for themselves.

but just for me!!! I like to see facts of vid proof. Just because I feel if they have nothing to lose then they will make vids. Or else why youtube, facebook, twitter, etc.... these kinds of marketing tools being used. To me the only answer is that they stand behind their own product.
I also agree some cars may seem fast on the vids. But at least its there, and not just a dyno sheet.

some people might go for the ESS price because its the best price!!

some people might buy the Gintani kit because of its raw reality of its just fast and they are not shy to show it.

some people like me, just like the G-power kit because it has some German design touch to it.

The bottom line for this thread is the following:

1. Price is not an issue
2. who's kit is the most powerful on the dyno & on mexico runs.
3. How many of these cars are DD cars.
4. Who has the most mileage
5. Who has the most proof of the best kit. example. vids. dyno, comparison runs.
6. for the people who voted please explain why.
__________________

Past: Gintani stage3 M3
present: Porsche 993RWB, 964RS America,996 cupcar, 964 turbo 3.6, 991C4S, i3 in September
Eugene-TAIWAN is offline   Taiwan
0
      01-17-2010, 08:26 AM   #12
MrHarris
yodog
 
MrHarris's Avatar
 
Drives: '86 Corolla
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Diamond Bar, Ca

Posts: 5,035
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2009 BMW  [5.00]
Send a message via AIM to MrHarris
All I know is the gintani kit, the design, quality of parts, installlation experience and tuning experience is legit.
__________________

2009 E92 M3 | Alpine White | Black Extended | Advan RS | Turner Test Pipes | Dinan Axle-Back | OETuning | Eibach Springs | UUC SSK | VRS Front Lip | VRS Type I Diffuser | Matte Black | RPi Scoops | MS Filter | Yokohama AD08 | F1 Pinnacle
Special Thanks: Gintani | OETuning | eAs
MrHarris is online now   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 09:20 AM   #13
Nate@IND
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Nate@IND's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chicago

Posts: 10,111
iTrader: (19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
There's also the RGM kit.
http://www.rgmotorsport.com/html/bmw_e92_m3.html

And I think there's about equal Gintani and ESS cars in the US -- maybe more ESS kits now that I think about it. Just from reading the ESS thread, it seems like there's one car a week showing up at ESS for a kit installation...but maybe it's the same people posting over and over again. So I compiled this list from memory. I'm sure I missed some, and I will update the list with corrections once they become available:


Gintani:
  • Sticky
  • powertrip
  • sammyrusso
  • niterider
  • Stage-3 low compression customer motor being built now. Not sure he wants his name public.
ESS:
  • biglare
  • m33
  • LV-E92M3
  • Mystery IND Customer-Green (kit sold, not sure if it's installed)
  • Mystery IND Customer-Red (kit sold, not sure if it's installed)
  • Forum lurker from east coast installing this week. Not sure he wants his name public.
The customer with the Green ESS SC is a member here on M3post. We had the kit installed and running within two days. What we loved about the ESS kit was that fact that it was not over engineered like many other kits we have seen on the market. Less is more right when we get the brakes back from Brembo we will go to the dyno and post a full review on the ESS kit.

The customer with the Red ESS kit will be installing it here in a few weeks. He is also a M3post member.
__________________
Nate@IND is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 11:18 AM   #14
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate@IND View Post
The customer with the Green ESS SC is a member here on M3post. We had the kit installed and running within two days. What we loved about the ESS kit was that fact that it was not over engineered like many other kits we have seen on the market. Less is more. right when we get the brakes back from Brembo we will go to the dyno and post a full review on the ESS kit.

The customer with the Red ESS kit will be installing it here in a few weeks. He is also a M3post member.
+1 on bolded text.

It is definitely possible over-engineer a supercharger kit, by adding a large number of unnecessary parts to mask a engineering and/or fundamental design flaw. ('super-sized' air-to-water or air-to-air intercooolers, water/methanol injection, nitrous oxide, etc.)

These 'extra' parts make it more difficult to properly diagnose (troubleshoot) an issue with any forced induction kit. That typically translates into longer down time for the customers vehicle, if there is a performance related issue to sort out.

In some SC kits, large bulky intake piping and/or intercooling parts are incorrectly designed (and routed) inside the engine bay. This reduces the overall cooling efficiency of the engine, since the path of the incoming airflow is blocked or restricted to key cooling components like the radiator. The more obstructions that are placed in front of the radiator, the less effective it can be in dissipating heat. (which is the purpose of having a radiator in the first place)

This will ultimately hinder your ability to make horsepower as you increase the boost. The performance potential of your SC kit will be 'capped' until those heat related issues are resolved. (since unmanageable HEAT related issues start to work against you)
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 11:27 AM   #15
bigpuna
Private
 
Drives: Z4 35i / E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: AZ

Posts: 79
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN View Post
Yes you car correct again PG I do know that RGM has a S/C kit but I have not seen a lot. But I must say atleast I have seen more on youtube of this kit then the ESS kit.
Eugene you need to learn how to use the search feature on youtube. You keep saying there are no vids of the ESS kit but yet I have had no problem finding lots of ESS E9X vids. There are tons of vids of the GS race car that ran all of last race season with the VT2 kit on it and also did several drift events. There are two vids from two different customers who ran their ESS supercharged cars from 0-200+ MPH and also a video of Biglare racing a 750 HP stage 2.5 HPF car. I think these will give you an idea of how the kit performs and the GS race car videos will give you an idea of how the kit was tested before it was released to the public
bigpuna is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 11:43 AM   #16
Bluechipper
Banned
 
Drives: 09 M3 Vert
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chicago

Posts: 256
iTrader: (0)

Here is a tuner contest set up by EuroTuner magazine. A Gintani owner showed up with his SC M3. Results from the Gintani SC M3 were somewhat disappointing.

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/view...r=asc&start=25

Anyone know the boost and fuel used in the dyno portion of the contest? The Gintani M3 put down 592whp on a dynojet. There is dyno results posted from an ESS VT2-600 kit putting down 635whp on a dynojet.

Sticky will be heading to the dragstrip on the 30th, to try put down a good time for Gintani. He is running very high boost and meth. Not exactly a mild streetable setup.
Bluechipper is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 11:49 AM   #17
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluechipper View Post
Here is a tuner contest set up by EuroTuner magazine. A Gintani owner showed up with his SC M3. Results from the Gintani SC M3 were somewhat disappointing.

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/view...r=asc&start=25

Anyone know the boost and fuel used in the dyno portion of the contest? The Gintani M3 put down 592whp on a dynojet. There is dyno results posted from an ESS VT2-600 kit putting down 635whp on a dynojet.

Sticky will be heading to the dragstrip on the 30th, to try put down a good time for Gintani. He is running very high boost and meth. Not exactly a mild streetable setup.
Hmm...

We would have to know the boost level (and the fuel grade used) during this dyno test before drawing any conclusions.

It's unfair to Gintani to state those numbers were dissapointing until the details are revealed.

Maybe Alex will chime in to set the record straight.
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 12:13 PM   #18
Roman@ESS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Roman@ESS's Avatar
 
Drives: ESS Supercharged E92 M3
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AZ

Posts: 2,546
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluechipper View Post
Here is a tuner contest set up by EuroTuner magazine. A Gintani owner showed up with his SC M3. Results from the Gintani SC M3 were somewhat disappointing.

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/view...r=asc&start=25

Anyone know the boost and fuel used in the dyno portion of the contest? The Gintani M3 put down 592whp on a dynojet. There is dyno results posted from an ESS VT2-600 kit putting down 635whp on a dynojet.

Sticky will be heading to the dragstrip on the 30th, to try put down a good time for Gintani. He is running very high boost and meth. Not exactly a mild streetable setup.
The dyno I posted of 600+ whp were not from a standard VT2-600 kit on a stock car. That car had a custom exhaust and a custom race tune designed to make max power on pump 93 octane @ 6.5 psi.
__________________
Web: www.esstuning.com
Email: Roman@esstuning.com
Phone: (480) 525-9155
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Instagram esstuning
Roman@ESS is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 12:50 PM   #19
BMWCadet
Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW E92 MR M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Fort Gordon, Georgia

Posts: 402
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluechipper View Post
Here is a tuner contest set up by EuroTuner magazine. A Gintani owner showed up with his SC M3. Results from the Gintani SC M3 were somewhat disappointing.

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/view...r=asc&start=25

Anyone know the boost and fuel used in the dyno portion of the contest? The Gintani M3 put down 592whp on a dynojet. There is dyno results posted from an ESS VT2-600 kit putting down 635whp on a dynojet.

Sticky will be heading to the dragstrip on the 30th, to try put down a good time for Gintani. He is running very high boost and meth. Not exactly a mild streetable setup.
Hope he doesnt blow his transmission again.
BMWCadet is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 12:56 PM   #20
ST06M3
Enlisted Member
 
ST06M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 BMW M3 ZCP
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AZ

Posts: 43
iTrader: (0)

We need to see some ESS vs Gintani vids. The bottom line is, people want the fastest. All other things will go out the door if ESS or Gintani consistently out runs each others kit and there are vids to back it up. My 2 cents.
ST06M3 is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 01:22 PM   #21
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCadet View Post
Hope he doesnt blow his transmission again.
I hope everything goes well for Sticky.

He has a lot of money invested in that car...
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 01:25 PM   #22
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
 
DLSJ5's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

Posts: 3,402
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to DLSJ5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluechipper View Post
Here is a tuner contest set up by EuroTuner magazine. A Gintani owner showed up with his SC M3. Results from the Gintani SC M3 were somewhat disappointing.

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/view...r=asc&start=25

Anyone know the boost and fuel used in the dyno portion of the contest? The Gintani M3 put down 592whp on a dynojet. There is dyno results posted from an ESS VT2-600 kit putting down 635whp on a dynojet.

Sticky will be heading to the dragstrip on the 30th, to try put down a good time for Gintani. He is running very high boost and meth. Not exactly a mild streetable setup.
Those runs were not done on a real 1/4 track, no launch pad, track prep etc. Unfortunately on street tires with that much power, it's going to be hard to get a good ET, as a solid ET is launch dependent. It would be interesting to see their 60' times, as we could figure out from that what their ET could have been with a solid launch.

As far as the dyno comparison, which is flawed to begin with, while impressive on both setups, the ESS dyno is uncorrected, not sure on the Gintani.

I was at the track when Sticky trapped 130 with his Gintani setup, I recall that the boost was at 7psi I wouldn't call that very high, lol, he was running water/meth as well, very impressive IMHO.

I agree with much of what Lemas is saying in choosing a kit, and some may disagree with this but I do think comparo vids tell us much more than a dyno sheet, as do Vbox and 1/4 mile runs/traps. The point of installing the kit on our car to go faster and we hope to be faster than the other guy.

But I agree with Jim, a dyno sheet doesn't really make me that excited, yes they have their place, initially it's great to see some good #'s and it's a good selling tool but there's much more enjoyment in driving the car and beating out or running with the guy who made more power than you. I'll take the "slip" over the "sheet," any day, way more telling IMHO.
__________________
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
DLSJ5 is online now   United_States
0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:16 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST