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      01-21-2007, 01:02 AM   #177
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The point of my post on debt to GDP ratios was not to show how great we are but to show how misleading you were. You stated that our debt would cause us to collapse as a great power, I said our debt to GDP ratio was within the norm for an advanced economy. You cherry picked statistics to imply our ratio was abnormally high. I merely corrected the record.
Finally, to get back to this -- again, my point is mis-interpreted.
First of all, Greece, Turkey and others you listed are NOT going to be the next world's super powers, more likely China, India, Russia will be (check out their numbers).

Second, and more important, our debt of $8.5 trillion is probably more than all other country's debts put together. Another 9-11 situation would cause the collapse of the US economy, and the GDP would decline tremendeously, but the debt stays where it is... Then, the trouble comes.

That is my point -- not in our time, but I am concerned for our kids and their kids...
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      01-21-2007, 10:15 AM   #178
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I hope you're watching Meet the Press this morning...
McCain is a rare Republican that very much supports the stand of the party, but uses his brain and experience...
Look at the numbers -- do you think the pres. is capable of doing his job -- 65% say NO. Evan 33% of republicans say that way...
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      01-21-2007, 11:35 AM   #179
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with all this, how are efforts to find the #1 ennemy, OBL?? It almost look as if they don't really want to find him!
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      01-21-2007, 11:38 AM   #180
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with all this, how are efforts to find the #1 ennemy, OBL?? It almost look as if they don't really want to find him!
Actually, they want to pull the troops out of Afghanistan and send them to Iraq to help -- no planning at all...a complete chaos!
At this point it is more Bush's pride not to "loose" some stupid war than to protect the USA, capture the person who planned the 911 and save our soldiers...

A big mess...he should be lynched by the parents of the fallen soldiers!
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      01-21-2007, 11:44 AM   #181
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A big mess...he should be lynched by the parents of the fallen soldiers!

he will step out of the office soon with a full retirement life plan, your and others money in hands, like his father...
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      01-22-2007, 11:03 AM   #182
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Now, re-read the resolutions -- I highlighted the points for you:
- peace in the region
- hiding the WMD

Both things did not exist on Iraqi side in 2003. There was a peace in the region, definitely no threat from Iraq, and according to Hans Blix, who reported days before Bush attacked -- there was nothing from resolution 1060. 3 years later, Bush admitted that there was no WMD in Iraq. So, the resolution 1060 and all after that are worrthless.
Previous resolutions, 660 and 687 clearly pertain to the Kuwait situation from the 1991, and have nothing to do with the situation in Iraq in 2003.

The resolutions that you keep re-pasting here have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the UN agreeing to support the attack on Iraq in 2003. They clearly, with no doubt, pertain to two things -- Iraqui offensive in Kuwait and the WMD -- clearly none of those existed in 2003.

As for Bush, if you really believe that the majority of Americans believe any of the following:
- that he knowlingly lied about the WMD
- that he planned (and his military guys) correctly this war and the exit strategy
- that we're safer now
- that we're not causing more trouble by this than good...
is not true -- please tell me, so we can wrap up this conversation. If your thinking is so much f'ed up, please let us know, I think I am wasting my time here.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt that Blix may have implied such to the press but the report he released to the Security Council said no such thing. The report lays out in detail Iraq's continued refusal to fully comply with the Security Council's demands. At a minimum, Iraq failed to properly disclose the development of the banned 'al Samoud II ballistic missile and the over 500 artillery shell filled with mustard and sarin that we have subsequently discovered.

Your assertion that 678 had no bearing on actions in 2003 is simply factually incorrect. It formed the foundation for all subsequent resolutions, including 687, and 1441. If you are incapable of comprehending what is plainly stated in the resolutions ("Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999...") then you are a lost cause. Blinded by your own ideological hatred.

You are incorrect to assert that the issue of WMD was the only condition of the cease-fire. Other requirements included, account for all Kuwaiti citizens they abducted during their occupation and cease their support for international terrorism.

Again, you are the one caught up in what a majority of some population group believes or doesn't believe. Truth is not dependent on popular support.
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      01-22-2007, 11:05 AM   #183
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Actually, they want to pull the troops out of Afghanistan and send them to Iraq to help -- no planning at all...a complete chaos!
At this point it is more Bush's pride not to "loose" some stupid war than to protect the USA, capture the person who planned the 911 and save our soldiers...

A big mess...he should be lynched by the parents of the fallen soldiers!
there is absolutely no plan to remove troops from Afghanistan to send them to Iraq.

Where do you get this stuff?
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      01-22-2007, 11:14 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
there is absolutely no plan to remove troops from Afghanistan to send them to Iraq.

Where do you get this stuff?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/

Maybe you should try to watch anything else but FOX...
Watch the video (McCain questions pulling U.S. troops from Afghanistan)
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      01-22-2007, 11:26 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
I will give you the benefit of the doubt that Blix may have implied such to the press but the report he released to the Security Council said no such thing. The report lays out in detail Iraq's continued refusal to fully comply with the Security Council's demands. At a minimum, Iraq failed to properly disclose the development of the banned 'al Samoud II ballistic missile and the over 500 artillery shell filled with mustard and sarin that we have subsequently discovered.

Your assertion that 678 had no bearing on actions in 2003 is simply factually incorrect. It formed the foundation for all subsequent resolutions, including 687, and 1441. If you are incapable of comprehending what is plainly stated in the resolutions ("Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999...") then you are a lost cause. Blinded by your own ideological hatred.

You are incorrect to assert that the issue of WMD was the only condition of the cease-fire. Other requirements included, account for all Kuwaiti citizens they abducted during their occupation and cease their support for international terrorism.

Again, you are the one caught up in what a majority of some population group believes or doesn't believe. Truth is not dependent on popular support.
Again -- it is clearly stated that Iraq had no ties with Al Qaida or terrorists before the attack.
It is clearly stated that Iraq had no WMDs (and YES, the inspections were allowed, and found NOTHING)

http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/SC7asdelivered.htm

Here are some important cut-outs that contradict your assertion above (from the inspectors to the President of UN Security Council):

"we have faced relatively few difficulties and certainly much less than those that were faced by UNSCOM in the period 1991 to 1998. This may well be due to the strong outside pressure."

NOW, the description of a criminal act from Bush and his crooks to try to make up the non-existing story and paint a bad picture about Iraq:

"As I noted on 14 February, intelligence authorities have claimed that weapons of mass destruction are moved around Iraq by trucks and, in particular, that there are mobile production units for biological weapons. The Iraqi side states that such activities do not exist. Several inspections have taken place at declared and undeclared sites in relation to mobile production facilities. Food testing mobile laboratories and mobile workshops have been seen, as well as large containers with seed processing equipment. No evidence of proscribed activities have so far been found. Iraq is expected to assist in the development of credible ways to conduct random checks of ground transportation..."

There is absolutely nothing pointing out that Iraq had the WMD, that Iraq did not cooperate, that Iraq provided help to the terrorists...NOTHING.
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      01-22-2007, 11:59 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Again -- it is clearly stated that Iraq had no ties with Al Qaida or terrorists before the attack.
It is clearly stated that Iraq had no WMDs (and YES, the inspections were allowed, and found NOTHING)

http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/SC7asdelivered.htm

Here are some important cut-outs that contradict your assertion above (from the inspectors to the President of UN Security Council):

"we have faced relatively few difficulties and certainly much less than those that were faced by UNSCOM in the period 1991 to 1998. This may well be due to the strong outside pressure."

NOW, the description of a criminal act from Bush and his crooks to try to make up the non-existing story and paint a bad picture about Iraq:

"As I noted on 14 February, intelligence authorities have claimed that weapons of mass destruction are moved around Iraq by trucks and, in particular, that there are mobile production units for biological weapons. The Iraqi side states that such activities do not exist. Several inspections have taken place at declared and undeclared sites in relation to mobile production facilities. Food testing mobile laboratories and mobile workshops have been seen, as well as large containers with seed processing equipment. No evidence of proscribed activities have so far been found. Iraq is expected to assist in the development of credible ways to conduct random checks of ground transportation..."

There is absolutely nothing pointing out that Iraq had the WMD, that Iraq did not cooperate, that Iraq provided help to the terrorists...NOTHING.
There are many more terrorist organizations than 'al Qaeda and your assertion that Iraq had no ties to terrorism is nonsense. In the years after the first Gulf War, Iraq was home to Abu Nidal (infamous for the 1985 attacks on the airports in Rome and Vienna), Abu Abbas (mastermind of the Achille Lauro hijacking), and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (the leader of al-Qaeda jihad organization in the Land of the Two Rivers or al Qaeada in Iraq). There was also the small issue of the bounty payments Iraq was making to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers.

The report you reference credits the external pressure as the reason the Iraqis were finally beginning to cooperate. Of course, they had 12 years to cooperate and with tens of thousands of coalition forces poised at the border this last minute conversion was simply too little too late. The unresolved issues can be found in this report, dated 27 Jan 2003. This report makes clear that Iraq failed to comply with its "last chance."
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Last edited by ganeil; 01-22-2007 at 01:32 PM.
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      01-22-2007, 12:13 PM   #187
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Quote:
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/

Maybe you should try to watch anything else but FOX...
Watch the video (McCain questions pulling U.S. troops from Afghanistan)
Maybe you should try doing actual research.

Here is the plan to provide the additional troops to Baghdad and 'al Anbar. Please note that none of these forces are being redeployed from Afghanistan.
As a result of the President’s Iraq strategy review, the Department of Defense announced today an increase of 20,000 U.S. military forces for Operation Iraqi Freedom.


Specific decisions made by the Secretary of Defense include:

The 2nd Brigade, 82nd Airborne Division, based at Fort Bragg, N.C., and currently assigned as the call forward force in Kuwait, will move into Iraq and assume a security mission there.

The 1st Brigade, 34th Infantry Division, Minnesota Army National Guard, will be extended in its current mission for up to 125 days and will redeploy not later than August 2007.

The 4th Brigade, 1st Infantry Division, based at Ft. Riley, Kan., will deploy in February 2007 as previously announced.

Three other Army combat brigades will deploy as follows:

The 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division, based at Ft. Benning, Ga., will deploy in March 2007.

The 4th Stryker Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, based at Ft. Lewis, Wash., will deploy in April 2007.

The 2nd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division, based at Ft. Stewart, Ga., will deploy in May 2007.


The Marine Corps will extend two reinforced infantry battalions for approximately 60 days. Additionally, the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) will remain in Iraq for approximately 45 additional days.
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      01-22-2007, 02:04 PM   #188
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NOW, the description of a criminal act from Bush and his crooks to try to make up the non-existing story and paint a bad picture about Iraq:
You are clearly incapable of discussing this matter in a thoughtful and rational manner due to the hatred you hold for the President. Hate cannot be tempered with facts or logic and I will therefore take my leave from any further discussion.
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      01-22-2007, 05:11 PM   #189
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You are clearly incapable of discussing this matter in a thoughtful and rational manner due to the hatred you hold for the President. Hate cannot be tempered with facts or logic and I will therefore take my leave from any further discussion.
Yep, hate them for doing this to us and them...
Hate them for ruining the future for my children...
Hate them for spending the money where we do not need to spend it...
Hate them for stealing the election in 2000...
Hate him for poluting the hell out of our air and for digging where we're not supposed to dig...all for money...
Just simply cannot like him for any reason...he's done nothing good for me, my family or my country...or any other country in the world...
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      01-23-2007, 04:23 PM   #190
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And apperently, I am not the only one:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/images/01/23/rel2b.pdf
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