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      01-10-2010, 05:33 AM   #1
SteveW25561
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Installing winter tires: antiseize for spacer and bolts, and torque setting?

I tried searching the forums but got varied answers. This is my first time changing a full set of tires on my own so please bear with me. I have the stock 19" for summertime.

I finally got my Blizzaks from TireRack for my 2009 M3 convertible.

fronts: 235/35R-19 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 XL
rears: 255/35R-19 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 XL

The rears came with spacers.

I've read varying suggestions for the torque ranging from 88-90 ft-lb. What is the consensus for the newer M3's? I can't find it in the manual.

Also, for the rear spacers, I understand I should put anti seize compound on them, but I'm not sure where: do I put a thin layer on BOTH sides of it? I've read suggestions NOT to put any antiseize on the car's wheel hub but that's where posters have had it stuck.

Also, SHOULD I put a little antiseize on the wheel bolts? I've also read both opinions including the fact antiseize can alter the torque values (?and can it make the bolt come off easier)?

I know these are newbie questions, but I've truly searched and find conflicting answers.

Thanks!
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      01-10-2010, 11:15 AM   #2
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Hi Steve,
You are going to find a boat load of opinions on this one. I personally have used anti-seize on spacers and lug bolts for 20+ years with no problems. If you are a member of BMWCCA look at the tech section of Roundel this month (it's consistent with my advice).

Strictly speaking you should not put any anti-seize on any of these parts, particularly the lug bolts as it will affect the torque specification, i.e. risk of over-tightening. However, give your climate (I'm a former Seattle native) I think if you put everything on dry you are almost guaranteed that if they stay on a few months, the first time you try to take them off you will have a bear of a time.

So what to do, clean everything nicely. Apply a very thin, sparing amount of anti-seize to the front and back side of the spacer including the centering ring of the hub (don't use a bunch) same on the lug bolts, just a little bit on a few threads, not all of the threads as it will spread on its own. Lug bolts torque to 88 ft-lbs (when dry), however, I use the same amount with anti-seize. If you are using after-market lug bolts then I would probably take a few pounds off that number, but if OEM you'll be fine at the stock value. Good luck and have fun.
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      01-10-2010, 11:23 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveW25561 View Post
I tried searching the forums but got varied answers. This is my first time changing a full set of tires on my own so please bear with me. I have the stock 19" for summertime.

I finally got my Blizzaks from TireRack for my 2009 M3 convertible.

fronts: 235/35R-19 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 XL
rears: 255/35R-19 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 XL

The rears came with spacers.

I've read varying suggestions for the torque ranging from 88-90 ft-lb. What is the consensus for the newer M3's? I can't find it in the manual.

Also, for the rear spacers, I understand I should put anti seize compound on them, but I'm not sure where: do I put a thin layer on BOTH sides of it? I've read suggestions NOT to put any antiseize on the car's wheel hub but that's where posters have had it stuck.

Also, SHOULD I put a little antiseize on the wheel bolts? I've also read both opinions including the fact antiseize can alter the torque values (?and can it make the bolt come off easier)?

I know these are newbie questions, but I've truly searched and find conflicting answers.

Thanks!
Definitely USE anti-seize on the spacers around the hub ring, where they mount on the hub. For a little extra insurance, put a dab between lug nut holes exercising care not to get the stuff near where lug bolts will go. There are scores of posts here about stuck spacers, and it was almost always the result of not using anti-seize.

Definitely DO NOT use anti-seize on or anywhere near lug bolts. Torque spec is 89 ft/lbs DRY. Lubed bolts will require a much higher level of torque to reach comparable tightness, and there is no such spec for wheel bolts. If you lube the lug bolts, you run the risk of over-tightening and stressing the bolt threads, plus you have no idea how tight or loose you are torquing. A lubed lug bolt at 89 ft/lbs. will not be nearly tight enough.

89 ft/lbs. is not a great amount of force. You should never have any problem breaking free dry lug bolts at that spec, if you break them lose a bit before lifting the car.
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      01-10-2010, 05:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
Apply a very thin, sparing amount of anti-seize to the front and back side of the spacer including the centering ring of the hub (don't use a bunch) same on the lug bolts, just a little bit on a few threads, not all of the threads as it will spread on its own. Lug bolts torque to 88 ft-lbs (when dry), however, I use the same amount with anti-seize. If you are using after-market lug bolts then I would probably take a few pounds off that number, but if OEM you'll be fine at the stock value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post
Lubed bolts will require a much higher level of torque to reach comparable tightness, and there is no such spec for wheel bolts. If you lube the lug bolts, you run the risk of over-tightening and stressing the bolt threads, plus you have no idea how tight or loose you are torquing. A lubed lug bolt at 89 ft/lbs. will not be nearly tight enough.

89 ft/lbs. is not a great amount of force. You should never have any problem breaking free dry lug bolts at that spec, if you break them lose a bit before lifting the car.
Lots of incorrect things here guys.

1. When lug bolt threads and clean and dry you don't need and never should use lube on them. Clean the bolt and threads as required with acetone or brake cleaner and blow out/off with compressed air. Then install DRY. This does not depend on the climate you are in.

2. You should not vary the tightening torque based on the bolt manufacturer. Use a bolt that meets BMW specs and use BMW specs for torque, period.

3. Just for the sake of correctness, IF you happened to have lubricated threads the torque requirements will decrease. The goal of a torque spec is much more related to the correct tension in the fastener as opposed to some level of torque tightness. As such a lubed fastener will develop the equivalent tension to a non lubricated one at a significantly lower torque value. Dry torque values on a lubed fastener can cause yielding or failure of the base threads, fastener threads or even the fastener itself. However, a high strength steel lug bolt mating in the aluminum hat on the M3 will most likely damage the threads in the hat.
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      01-10-2010, 08:58 PM   #5
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One more comment agreeing with advice NOT to use anti-seize on the lugs. As for climate, if the lugs are properly torqued you shouldn't have any issues regardless of where you drive.
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      01-10-2010, 11:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Lots of incorrect things here guys.

1. When lug bolt threads and clean and dry you don't need and never should use lube on them. Clean the bolt and threads as required with acetone or brake cleaner and blow out/off with compressed air. Then install DRY. This does not depend on the climate you are in.

2. You should not vary the tightening torque based on the bolt manufacturer. Use a bolt that meets BMW specs and use BMW specs for torque, period.

3. Just for the sake of correctness, IF you happened to have lubricated threads the torque requirements will decrease. The goal of a torque spec is much more related to the correct tension in the fastener as opposed to some level of torque tightness. As such a lubed fastener will develop the equivalent tension to a non lubricated one at a significantly lower torque value. Dry torque values on a lubed fastener can cause yielding or failure of the base threads, fastener threads or even the fastener itself. However, a high strength steel lug bolt mating in the aluminum hat on the M3 will most likely damage the threads in the hat.
Yes, you are correct. I was trying to say the same thing and did, but you used a partial quote. The part you did quote, I expressed poorly and backwards. My main point is and was don't use anti-seize or any lube on lug bolts. The torque specs are for dry.

Since there is no lubed spec, the rest is rather irrelevant.

BTW, as you now know, anti-seize on spacers is a good thing.

Last edited by foosh; 01-10-2010 at 11:50 PM.
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