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      12-29-2009, 06:59 PM   #1
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Buyers Beware: Do NOT Buy from OnGreenPerformance.com!!!

So a few days ago, I was in the market to buy an OEM piece I needed to replace in my car. My AC Module Screen was going wack for a while and realized I had some spare cash to do a little maintenance work. Went on Ebay to buy and found a vendor called ongreenperformance. The item was shipped swiftly and I must commend them on that. Unfortunately though, it was just buttons and not the screen I needed. And from there, it went downhill.

See how this came about via Ebay's messaging system:

From me:


"Hello, I had received the item just recently. Unfortunately I was under the impression that this also included the pixel screen. May I get the complete module? Thank you."


From ongreenperformance:


"The Pixel screen is built into the control module, unfortunately we don't sell that, your only two options there is either to find one used, or buy a new one from BMW. Let us know if we can help you further.
On Green Performance"

From me:


"If that is the case, I would like to place a return for this item since it is pertinent that I get the screen. Thats what is needed to be replaced. How do I go about in placing the return? The item has not been installed."

From ongreenperformance:


"As long as the item is brand new in the packaging and unused unopened you can return it. Its a 20% restock fee. Return the item along with a copy of your original invoice and a note as to reason for return-ordered wrong item to:
On Green Performance-Returns
PO Box 70128
Rosedale MD 21237

On Green Performance"

From me:


"Wow, 20%. I guess that should cover the return shipping cost and your profit margin quite well. For future reference, you should indicate that in your ads due to its significant high percentage value. Anyway as mentioned in the previous email, it's never installed. I didn't even take it out of the plastic bag it came with. I do hope I don't get penalized for ripping up the USPS packaging since that's the only way to open it up. Before sending this item out, I wanted to be certain that return shipping is under your tab due to the high restocking fee. Please advise, thank you."

From ongreenperformance:


"The Shipping box is of no concern to us as long as the plastic sleve is still intatced and sealed, and none of the buttons have been removed. Return policy as listed-
-Item must be Brand new in original unopened packaging
-20% Restocking fee on all Returns
-No Returns on Electrical items
-No Returns on Used Parts
-Buyer responsible for all S&H fees

We do not pay for return shipping and we don't refund the orginal shipping cost. Have a Good New Years
On Green Performance"

From me:


"I understand that I will not be refunded the shipping cost to me, but I will not tolerate the fact that you're expecting me to cover the shipping back to you when it would only cost less than $5 which still gives u a decent profit margin from your restocking fee. I'm trying to be fair here. But if you insist on these terms, you leave me no choice but to file a dispute with the basis that your ad did not indicate such a return policy and that the ad was not clear on the item's specifics. It's your call to lose on all of your restocking fee. Happy Holidays as well."

AND THIS IS WHERE IT GETS HORRENDOUS: THEY DARE GIVE ME A LESSON READING AND PHONICS, BUT CAN'T EVEN SPELL RIGHT


From ongreenperformance:


"Its not our fault that reading comprehesnion is not a skill you have. Read the damn listing it could not be more clear that is only a button set copied exactly from our listing-"You are bidding on a Brand New from BMW in BMW Packaging Climate Control Button Set for the below listed applications. These are BMW OEM Buttons, BMW knew the digital climate control buttons where prone to breaking so they released this button set, this is NOT a climate control unit, but just a front panel with buttons, its designed to take the buttons off you need to replace your old, worn out and cracked buttons on your unit"

It clearly states this is NOT a Climate control unit, and the set is to take off the buttons you need and put it on your unit. It can't be more clear, we have sold hundreads of these and your the first person ever to have reading comprehesnion probleam. Also our Refund policy is clearly stated on the Shipping and payment tab on the listing. Go to the listing and click the shipping in payment tab its right there to read. And lastly for gods sake look at the frigen picture on the listing theres no way it could be a module or have a screen in it, its white were the screen would be is your screen white-no its not. I mean I know the average IQ in Califonia is 100 pionts lower but seriously."

I guess I just became another victim of Ebay. I guess it was my mistake for not closely reading into the fine print nor did I click on all the tabs. I guess I've just been spoiled by the higher level customer service that vendors in our forums commit too. But that last response from them, definitely left a sour taste in my mouth. I've already went ahead and filed a dispute with Ebay and Paypal. At this point, I don't really care if I get the money back. But what I do know is I won't let this business be given another chance to conduct business with any of my BMW Brethren without a proper "heads up" to you. So let this be a warning to you guys.

Lesson Learned: Beauty is not skin deep. Read the fine print.

Last edited by 415Banker; 12-29-2009 at 07:16 PM.
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      12-29-2009, 10:52 PM   #2
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I hate buyers like you. Don't read the damn listing and expect the seller to take care of the problem for you.
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      12-29-2009, 11:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Nimz View Post
I hate buyers like you. Don't read the damn listing and expect the seller to take care of the problem for you.
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      12-30-2009, 03:21 AM   #4
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Lol.. no need to be like that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Nimz View Post
I hate buyers like you. Don't read the damn listing and expect the seller to take care of the problem for you.
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      12-30-2009, 03:35 AM   #5
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The buyer should have paid a little more attention to the listing.. unless it had deceiving pictures.
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      12-30-2009, 08:37 AM   #6
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You're not a victim. Read the ad next time or have someone read it to you. Is that true about the IQ numbers in California?
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      12-30-2009, 01:43 PM   #7
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As mentioned on my previous post, I now know I was at fault at a certain degree. I was willing to compromise, but when I read this on their contact page on their website:

"-Call Us

410-682-6744
Please Observe Business hours--What does that mean-it means if its 6PM on the west coast --thats you Cali, please don't call 17 times leaving 6 messages about how we never answer our phone-when we have been closed for a few hours. Nothing starts the next business day off better then 6 angry messages."

and also after reading that last response from them, I got on the defensive side.

I was mislead because of the fact that the AC module tends to break as whole and not just buttons...It's a commonly known E39 flaw. So when I clicked on it, and saw that the deal was $50 cheaper than the competition. I made a run for it...but sadly, ran with the wrong item...and later on, learned i ran with the wrong vendor...

and being in the retail automotive business, I personally would never do such a thing: Attacking the issue and worse insulting the customer's background.
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      12-30-2009, 03:05 PM   #8
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Just got off the phone with Ebay =)...

Here's how their response went:

"We apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you. Please send back the item with the return label that we will be emailing you."

"We grant you a full refund of $118 for grounds that the seller is a complete misrepresentation of how an Ebay vendor should be. He may have been been factual and may have listed the return policy in hindsight while you were in error for not reading the whole ad, but because of the lack of professionalism he portrayed we honor you the full refund. We will also take recourse action in penalizing the vendor further as we don't see this fit with our mission statement."

All I can say now is I'm happy, and definitely learned from this experience as a consumer and as a seller. One, be careful of what you buy. Two, never bite the hand that feeds you.

This dispute could have been won by the vendor easily, but since he went way out of line, the customer was right on this one.
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      12-30-2009, 06:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Nimz View Post
I hate buyers like you. Don't read the damn listing and expect the seller to take care of the problem for you.
+1000

Read the fucking ad and stop blaming the seller for your mistakes.
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      12-30-2009, 06:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hOnly View Post
+1000

Read the fucking ad and stop blaming the seller for your mistakes.
Now here's my question to you guys, lets just say you were in my shoes after being dished an insult of that level...would you kept quiet still? Wouldn't have you escalated this to the governing body of Ebay? Even a little mouse cornered in the kitchen by a cat would try to fight back.

I would've gone off quietly and sucked up the fees if this was handled by them professionally. I would know because being on the other side as a vendor, I do this on a day to day basis when I deal with RMAs all day long. In fact, we don't even have restocking fees. We even take in returns when we knowingly see damage done by the customer's negligence. We do this to avoid erupting customers. They chose to not get off the high horse, and I charged back. Cardinal rule amongst retailers, NEVER insult customers. It can be used as grounds for harassment in court. Obviously, I didn't take that route with them as a customer, but I was just not going to let them go that easily either.

They lost it in the end which anyone in the business should NEVER do. I've dealt with more strenuous situations in our arena, and never would I try to personally attack a customer. As I mentioned earlier, the vendor could have easily won this, but I went for the charge after the attack. Because of that slip up, that is why Ebay sided with me on this one.

I've spoken with other vendors today who are forum sponsors. We all agreed. I was initially at fault, but the final outcome was that the cardinal rule was broken. As one of the sponsors said, "how dumb do you have to be to go after a guy and tell him his IQ is low." Unfortunate for this vendor that he didn't know I know how to play with the rules. Because he already insulted my son (in a response he made to my negative feedback to him by saying we hope he does not breed), all the more I will not tolerate anyone talking $h!t about my family.

It's not impossible to cover for a return's $5 shipping cost especially having a restocking fee that high. As a power seller, he has the volume to cover certain incidentals like this. The company I work for has a medium level volume on retail and high level volume on wholesale. Day in and day out, we get returns. We don't charge restocking fees, but we manage to stay in the black all the time. So to say that $5 is trouble for them is a load of crap. My compromise was to pay for the restocking fee, but not for the return shipping cost knowing its feeble for them to begin with. Now because he insulted not only me but my family, Ebay went ahead and given me a full refund.

Just today, I get a call from a customer saying he wants his money back after ordering a E46 bumper from our website. I asked him why? "I made a mistake. I thought I ordered a E39 bumper for my E39." And since the bumper wasn't shipped out yet I said, "No problem. I can ship out a E39 bumper for you." He then responds, "No thanks. I decided not to make to complete the purchase because I didn't realize I have a bill to pay." Guess what I said? "No problem, sir. I'll refund you the money and just keep us posted when your financials have been taken cared of." Do I get an award? Nope. But one thing for sure, I know he'll come back to us.

That's customer service. When I could have easily said. "Sir, that's a load of crap. It's not our problem you didn't balance your checking account right. You're stupid of thinking of modifying your car when your tight on money. Which state do you live in? Texas? Man, you guys think too BIG there. I'm still gonna send you the bumper."
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      12-30-2009, 09:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415Banker View Post
Now here's my question to you guys, lets just say you were in my shoes after being dished an insult of that level...would you kept quiet still? Wouldn't have you escalated this to the governing body of Ebay? Even a little mouse cornered in the kitchen by a cat would try to fight back.

I would've gone off quietly and sucked up the fees if this was handled by them professionally. I would know because being on the other side as a vendor, I do this on a day to day basis when I deal with RMAs all day long. In fact, we don't even have restocking fees. We even take in returns when we knowingly see damage done by the customer's negligence. We do this to avoid erupting customers. They chose to not get off the high horse, and I charged back. Cardinal rule amongst retailers, NEVER insult customers. It can be used as grounds for harassment in court. Obviously, I didn't take that route with them as a customer, but I was just not going to let them go that easily either.

They lost it in the end which anyone in the business should NEVER do. I've dealt with more strenuous situations in our arena, and never would I try to personally attack a customer. As I mentioned earlier, the vendor could have easily won this, but I went for the charge after the attack. Because of that slip up, that is why Ebay sided with me on this one.

I've spoken with other vendors today who are forum sponsors. We all agreed. I was initially at fault, but the final outcome was that the cardinal rule was broken. As one of the sponsors said, "how dumb do you have to be to go after a guy and tell him his IQ is low." Unfortunate for this vendor that he didn't know I know how to play with the rules. Because he already insulted my son (in a response he made to my negative feedback to him by saying we hope he does not breed), all the more I will not tolerate anyone talking $h!t about my family.

It's not impossible to cover for a return's $5 shipping cost especially having a restocking fee that high. As a power seller, he has the volume to cover certain incidentals like this. The company I work for has a medium level volume on retail and high level volume on wholesale. Day in and day out, we get returns. We don't charge restocking fees, but we manage to stay in the black all the time. So to say that $5 is trouble for them is a load of crap. My compromise was to pay for the restocking fee, but not for the return shipping cost knowing its feeble for them to begin with. Now because he insulted not only me but my family, Ebay went ahead and given me a full refund.

Just today, I get a call from a customer saying he wants his money back after ordering a E46 bumper from our website. I asked him why? "I made a mistake. I thought I ordered a E39 bumper for my E39." And since the bumper wasn't shipped out yet I said, "No problem. I can ship out a E39 bumper for you." He then responds, "No thanks. I decided not to make to complete the purchase because I didn't realize I have a bill to pay." Guess what I said? "No problem, sir. I'll refund you the money and just keep us posted when your financials have been taken cared of." Do I get an award? Nope. But one thing for sure, I know he'll come back to us.

That's customer service. When I could have easily said. "Sir, that's a load of crap. It's not our problem you didn't balance your checking account right. You're stupid of thinking of modifying your car when your tight on money. Which state do you live in? Texas? Man, you guys think too BIG there. I'm still gonna send you the bumper."
You know why he reacted the way he did? Because he is sick and tired of idiots not reading his descriptions, and he has to eat the cost. Is his response good customer service? Of course not. Is it warranted? Absolutely.

Why on earth would he pay for the return shipping if YOU made the mistake? It is YOUR responsibility to ship it back since you ordered the wrong item. 20% restocking fee is reasonable, since he had to pay his employee to get the item off the shelf, pack it, and ship it to you. Now his employee has to receive your return, unpack it, examine it, and then put it back on the shelf.

Next time just read the COMPLETE for sale post, that way you can save yourself and the seller this headache.
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      12-30-2009, 09:22 PM   #12
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Oh come on. I mean I can see how you might say that the seller is justified in not caving on the 20%, but anyone who acts like that is an idiot. If someone spoke to me like that (to my face), they would be picking their teeth out of the back of their damn head. Just say, "look I understand that you made a mistake, but we cannot credit you the 20% restocking fee." Just act like you have some respect for other human beings - it really isn't that much to ask.
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      12-30-2009, 10:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Oh come on. I mean I can see how you might say that the seller is justified in not caving on the 20%, but anyone who acts like that is an idiot. If someone spoke to me like that (to my face), they would be picking their teeth out of the back of their damn head. Just say, "look I understand that you made a mistake, but we cannot credit you the 20% restocking fee." Just act like you have some respect for other human beings - it really isn't that much to ask.
You must not work in customer service. Trust me. After dealing with people like this over and over and over again, anyone's patience will be put to the test.
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      12-30-2009, 10:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Ca$hOnly View Post
You must not work in customer service. Trust me. After dealing with people like this over and over and over again, anyone's patience will be put to the test.
Ha! I've worked in customer service my entire career - 12 years now. I have never once snapped on a customer like that and I've been put through a hell of a lot worse than a few emails asking if I will bend the rules.
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      12-30-2009, 11:01 PM   #15
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Just in...I didn't even see this angle at all till another forum member mentioned it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-technik-3 View Post
just reading this thread then reading the ebay ad, well they edited their ad on "Last updated on 07:48:34 AM PST, Dec 22, 2009 View all revisions"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=380168101225

The seller has revised the following item information:
Date Time Revised Information
Dec-22-09 07:48:34 PST
Shipping Terms
Description
Quantity



The seller may make revisions during the listing period. However, the seller cannot change some of the information, such as format or duration of the listing. Learn more

As a buyer, you can see the item you purchased from the Purchase history page. Learn more


So my question is when did you buy this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvcajita View Post
Good eye dear sir. I bought it on the 21st.

Total Amount: -$118.00 USD
Fee amount: $0.00 USD
Net amount: -$118.00 USD
Date: Dec 21, 2009
Time: 21:39:35 PST
Status: Completed

I didn't even think of that how the ad could have been edited since it is a multiple quantity post. And if you look at it closely too, the shipping terms, description, and quantity was changed. Hmmmm, for a minute there I was already admitting fault on how I may have not managed to read the description of the item. Thing is there really isn't no way to verify if they really did change out stuff to make misleading at first. But I swear to god, I did not see "...this is NOT a climate control unit..." or anything to state it was just buttons when I first saw the ad.
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      12-30-2009, 11:13 PM   #16
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Only small companies have this kind of customer service eh. Better yet, a company with only one employee and that is the sole owner. The guy should have responded like what Singletrack said or similar and deny the customer's claim for the shipping cost. Whether it's the stupid customer or a bad tempered customer service representative, you blew up like this, you are fired or you lose a customer, Just have to bite it. You think it's a perfect world out there where you get all of the "high IQ" and super intelligent customers to deal with? Hahah, don't make me laugh. You should be thankful for those stupid customers because they bring you profit because of their stupidness.

Of course, nothing will happen with this guy on ongreenperformance. It doesn't surprise me cause that's just another ebay seller.

The OP has the right to rant and he was ranting about their customer service and admitted that it was his error not to read the terms and condition. It's the insulting that he was ranting about.

Would I buy anything from this company if they are selling something I want? Would you? I bet.
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Last edited by Leozap; 12-30-2009 at 11:16 PM. Reason: singletrack's respond instead
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      12-30-2009, 11:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hOnly View Post
You know why he reacted the way he did? Because he is sick and tired of idiots not reading his descriptions, and he has to eat the cost. Is his response good customer service? Of course not. Is it warranted? Absolutely.

Why on earth would he pay for the return shipping if YOU made the mistake? It is YOUR responsibility to ship it back since you ordered the wrong item. 20% restocking fee is reasonable, since he had to pay his employee to get the item off the shelf, pack it, and ship it to you. Now his employee has to receive your return, unpack it, examine it, and then put it back on the shelf.

Next time just read the COMPLETE for sale post, that way you can save yourself and the seller this headache.
Ever thought why I escalated the matter to Ebay's dispute system? It's because of his lack of professionalism. Warranted or not, we all know we should never strike down on a retail customer like that. NEVER.

As for a 20% restocking fee, it could have been reasonable if the return shipping label was included. We're not talking about a full exhaust kit here. His employee is packing and receiving an item thats less than a pound, which would only take about less than half an hour. Now lets dissect that even more. They still would have made a profit on it despite losing time on the RMA and on the shipping label. Thing is they wanted to capitalize on it. Their agenda was pre-printed. And I think its safe to assume they got something against Californians (after reading the contact page on the website).

But I do have to agree with you, I will read the fine print next time. But will I bow down to that kind of insulting rebuttals? Never.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Oh come on. I mean I can see how you might say that the seller is justified in not caving on the 20%, but anyone who acts like that is an idiot. If someone spoke to me like that (to my face), they would be picking their teeth out of the back of their damn head. Just say, "look I understand that you made a mistake, but we cannot credit you the 20% restocking fee." Just act like you have some respect for other human beings - it really isn't that much to ask.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hOnly View Post
You must not work in customer service. Trust me. After dealing with people like this over and over and over again, anyone's patience will be put to the test.
Thank you Singletrack...it's that respect our whole world lacks. Wish there was more of it. Ca$hOnly, I get haggled, threatened, b!tched at on the phone all day long...NEVER will I go down the road in insulting my customer's IQ. We're the professionals. We know our products more than the consumer. It's our due diligence to educate them on their mishaps rather than talking them down. And from how I hear it, you've been in the business for a long time. You know this Cardinal rule.
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      12-30-2009, 11:19 PM   #18
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Singletrack and Banker, I guess you guys are better than me. I have lost it before with customers whose nagging drove me absolutely nuts. The price of losing their business was SO worth getting my anger off my chest. I have since worked on myself and kept my outbursts to a minimum.

In conclusion to this mess, do I agree that he should have insulted your IQ and your family? No. But I understand.
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      12-30-2009, 11:56 PM   #19
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As a business owner I only charged a restocking fee if it needed to be repackaged or sold as "open box". 20% is ridicuous, just another form of greed. If the product was super heavy and required special storage orsomething unforseen maybe... But he is just going to sell it to the next guy for the same retail price. What a crap vendor IMO, but op claimed fault in not reading ad 100%. So, I'm guessing both sides learned a lesson, case closed.
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      12-31-2009, 01:58 PM   #20
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This was a transaction between dumb and dumber, and eBay just stepped in awarded ignorance, reinforcing that it is OK to be dumb and not OK to tell it like it is.

If you think a 20% restocking fee for a $118 part is bad, **********s charges 50% on $1200 sets wheels.
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      01-01-2010, 02:21 AM   #21
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I once ordered some tires from Sears. Went home and spoke to my dad, he went on ebay, found the same set of tires for half the price. They were brand new take-off's with 5 miles on them:-) Called sears asked them to cancel my order. They charged me a 20% restocking fee, even though the warehouse didn't ship them out! They packaged it, You bet i went berserk!

4 tires at 900 dollars and 20% off that! holy smokes!
that's like half a tire! anyways i spoke to the service manger and he said nothing he can do!
Called my dad and he came in. Bought a lawyer with him too:-) we have connections!

What did they do. The denied and later we set a court date. They could of just not charged me 20% fee and none of this would of happened. But will i do business with sears again. Probably not, But i did learn my lesson to take things slow and ask questions:-)

Cashonly, im going to be straight with you, i have no reputation on this forum or nor do i need to name for myself.
You have no patience nor respect. Not everyone is as smart as you
People make mistakes. Im sure your not Mr. Perfect but The OP did make a mistake and owned up to it, yes the Vendor is wrong for insulting him. But uou my friend are a
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      01-25-2010, 01:57 PM   #22
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Were they even a sponsor on this board? I am assuming just ebay.
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