BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-17-2007, 11:12 PM   #155
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

I have been in about 55 countries...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 10:01 AM   #156
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i
So, our ratio is 65%, China's 15%, Australia 15%, UK 45% and we all fall in the same category...
I don't get it...
Again...we and them all paid taxes...they get real service, you and I get NOTHING. In TX for example, they take 3% property tax, 2.5% for schools. The schools SUCKKKK big time here...so, who's confiscating here? Who's crazy here?
You are quite selective in the countries you choose to compare. Let's take a look at some OECD member nations that you did not include:

Japan - 158%
Italy - 108%
Greece - 106%
Belgium - 94%
Turkey - 68%
Austria - 65%

If you are unhappy with the schools and property taxes in your area, move. The bottom line is our tax rates, although way to high for my tastes, are on the low end of the international spectrum. Most developed nations have income tax rates comparable to our own and then add on a VAT or GST at the national level as well.
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 10:02 AM   #157
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i
I have been in about 55 countries...
Define "been in."

I was counting only those countries which I spent a considerable amount of time.
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 10:04 AM   #158
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck335i
you should add "IMHO" to this, because that is what it is, your perception of what you saw...

I've been to as many country as you, served for the UN in 5 of them and my views are quite different as yours, still, I am not trying to force them to others that I have no clue of who they are, especially on the internet.
I have not tried to force my views on anyone. That would be futile. I just try to correct errors and mis-perceptions.

Words mean things and when someone says that the war is "illegal" they should be able to back that up.
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 01:21 PM   #159
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
I have not tried to force my views on anyone. That would be futile. I just try to correct errors and mis-perceptions.

Words mean things and when someone says that the war is "illegal" they should be able to back that up.
So, the bottom line is that you think 65% of Americans and 90% of the rest of the world are wrong?
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 01:25 PM   #160
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
Define "been in."

I was counting only those countries which I spent a considerable amount of time.
By "been in" I mean either:
- lived for an extensive period
- traveled to numerous times and had a chance to explore their culture/systems
- visited but know someone well that lives there and had a chance to have a political discussion with him/her
- just visited (those account for maybe 5 -- I'd say Mexico, UK, Japan are examples...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 01:29 PM   #161
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i
So, the bottom line is that you think 65% of Americans and 90% of the rest of the world are wrong?
About?
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 01:57 PM   #162
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
About?
1) This war/US Politics
2) US Diplomacy
3) W
everything we discussed above...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 02:38 PM   #163
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i
1) This war/US Politics
2) US Diplomacy
3) W
everything we discussed above...
If you are claiming that 65% of the US population and 90% of the world population believe that:

The war in Iraq is illegal

That the US has engaged in no diplomacy since 2000.

George W Bush is the focus of evil in the world.

I would first challenge your assertion and if that assertion was correct, then I would assert that 65% of the US population and 90% of the world population are wrong.
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 02:42 PM   #164
canuck335i
Private with no class
 
canuck335i's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Montreal

Posts: 649
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
If you are claiming that 65% of the US population and 90% of the world population believe that:

The war in Iraq is illegal

That the US has engaged in no diplomacy since 2000.

George W Bush is the focus of evil in the world.

I would first challenge your assertion and if that assertion was correct, then I would assert that 65% of the US population and 90% of the world population are wrong.


hehehe, why am I not surprised!

hilarious

LOL
canuck335i is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 03:21 PM   #165
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck335i
hehehe, why am I not surprised!

hilarious

LOL

So, I guess when 90% of the world population thought that the world was flat, the world was indeed flat?
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 03:31 PM   #166
canuck335i
Private with no class
 
canuck335i's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North of Montreal

Posts: 649
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
So, I guess when 90% of the world population thought that the world was flat, the world was indeed flat?
I know what happened to you to blur your perception of this world that much:
Attached Images
 
canuck335i is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 04:05 PM   #167
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
So, I guess when 90% of the world population thought that the world was flat, the world was indeed flat?
Wake up, 65% of Americans (and more than that) do think that Bush is a lying idiot that put us into this mess for self gratitude...

And more than 90% of the world population cannot stand America and Americans because of our foreign policy...

Your association has nothing to do wit the 21st century reality...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 04:15 PM   #168
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck335i
I know what happened to you to blur your perception of this world that much:
Let's review.

Despite the lack of an ability to cite what specific law has been violated or any adjudication by an international body (UN, World Court) that an applicable international law has been violated - the war in Iraq is illegal because some certain percentage of some certain population says it is.

Despite the undisputed fact that the President and the Secretary of State have met with dozens of foreign leaders, attended numerous international summits, the US has taken part in multiple UN Security Council sessions, and the US operates embassies in scores of nations - the United States has engaged in absolutely no diplomacy since 2000 because some certain percentage of some certain population says it is.

Despite the presence of world leaders who admittedly plan to wipe a sovereign nation off the map if given the opportunity, provide support and sanctuary to people that strap explosives to themselves and intentionally blow up large numbers of civilians, and intentionally use large concentrations of civilians as shields to hide behind while attacking others, and despite the fact that absolutely nothing or no one stands in the way of George W. Bush instantly killing tens of millions while rendering any corner of the globe uninhabitable - George W. Bush is the focus of evil in the world because some certain percentage of some certain population says it is.


Can we agree that this is your contention?
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 04:16 PM   #169
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i
Wake up, 65% of Americans (and more than that) do think that Bush is a lying idiot that put us into this mess for self gratitude...

And more than 90% of the world population cannot stand America and Americans because of our foreign policy...

Your association has nothing to do wit the 21st century reality...

I assume you can back this up with some type of data.
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 05:21 PM   #170
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
I assume you can back this up with some type of data.
Yep, put your "I Love USA" shirt on, and take a two-week vacation to Europe and Asia...

You won't be back...in one piece...

As for the internal support -- we have seen the mid-term elections outcome, we will see the 2008. Although I like McCain, I'd hate to be him in 2008 after this big fu**up currently happening...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2007, 07:06 PM   #171
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i
Yep, put your "I Love USA" shirt on, and take a two-week vacation to Europe and Asia...

You won't be back...in one piece...

As for the internal support -- we have seen the mid-term elections outcome, we will see the 2008. Although I like McCain, I'd hate to be him in 2008 after this big fu**up currently happening...

So, you cannot back up your claims with actual data. Thank you for playing.

Why do you make claims that you can't substantiate? There is absolutely no data to support your 65%/95% numbers.
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-19-2007, 08:22 AM   #172
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
So, you cannot back up your claims with actual data. Thank you for playing.

Why do you make claims that you can't substantiate? There is absolutely no data to support your 65%/95% numbers.
Actually, (unlike in your UN Resolution cases that were written 15 years ago), my data is a week old on Bush support. You can easily find the polls anywhere...it is more than 65% in the USA. Yes, polls are not completely accurate, but definitely within +/- 5%.
As for the world...been around, seen it, talked to people...for me it is enough. For you...I really don't give rat's ass any more...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-19-2007, 09:50 PM   #173
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Actually, (unlike in your UN Resolution cases that were written 15 years ago), my data is a week old on Bush support. You can easily find the polls anywhere...it is more than 65% in the USA. Yes, polls are not completely accurate, but definitely within +/- 5%.
As for the world...been around, seen it, talked to people...for me it is enough. For you...I really don't give rat's ass any more...
Of course the UN Resolutions were still binding under international law and your analysis of the polling data is absurd. Just because 60% of the US currently disapproves of the President's job performance does not men they, "think that Bush is a lying idiot that put us into this mess for self gratitude..."

Your inability to articulate a position without hyperbole is disappointing.
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-20-2007, 09:26 PM   #174
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Of course the UN Resolutions were still binding under international law and your analysis of the polling data is absurd. Just because 60% of the US currently disapproves of the President's job performance does not men they, "think that Bush is a lying idiot that put us into this mess for self gratitude..."

Your inability to articulate a position without hyperbole is disappointing.
Man, looks like I missed some of your previous answers...
One of them is when you put the Debt vs. GDP ratios of other countries to show us how great we are. I never said we're the worst of the developed world -- far from there. My whole point is -- there are better, much better places than here.

As for the comment above -- actually, I do think (and stick to it) that 65% of Americans think that Bush is incompetent for his job and that he is a lying bastard.

Again, I am not sure about your previously mentioned UN resolution that talks about the Iraq in 1990. The Security Council had a meeting before this war and they did not approve it. Therefore, why would they even meet if the resolution was already valid???
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-20-2007, 11:52 PM   #175
ganeil
Colonel
 
ganeil's Avatar
 
Drives: 328i Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 2,050
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Man, looks like I missed some of your previous answers...
One of them is when you put the Debt vs. GDP ratios of other countries to show us how great we are. I never said we're the worst of the developed world -- far from there. My whole point is -- there are better, much better places than here.

As for the comment above -- actually, I do think (and stick to it) that 65% of Americans think that Bush is incompetent for his job and that he is a lying bastard.

Again, I am not sure about your previously mentioned UN resolution that talks about the Iraq in 1990. The Security Council had a meeting before this war and they did not approve it. Therefore, why would they even meet if the resolution was already valid???
The point of my post on debt to GDP ratios was not to show how great we are but to show how misleading you were. You stated that our debt would cause us to collapse as a great power, I said our debt to GDP ratio was within the norm for an advanced economy. You cherry picked statistics to imply our ratio was abnormally high. I merely corrected the record.

If you believe that 65% of Americans believe Bush is incompetent and a liar than you are delusional.

See if you can follow this simple timeline:
1990 - Iraq invades Kuwait, UN orders Iraq to leave Kuwait (UNSCR 660), US authorizes member nations "to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area.'

1991 - UNSCR 687 sets conditions for a cease-fire between Iraq and member states implementing UNSCR 678. The cessation of military action is contingent on Iraqi compliance with all conditions. UNSCR 707, "Condemns Iraq's serious violation of a number of its obligations under section C of resolution 687"

1994 - UNSCR 949 Recalls "that Iraq's acceptance of resolution 687 (1991) adopted pursuant to Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations forms the basis of the cease-fire, and again demands Iraq comply.

1996 - UNSCR 1060 again Deplores the refusal of the Iraqi authorities to allow access to sites designated by the Special Commission, which constitutes a clear violation of the provisions of Security Council resolutions 687 (1991) and Demands that Iraq cooperate fully with the Special Commission in accordance with the relevant resolutions."

1997 - UN condemns Iraqi refusal to comply with 687 in UNSCR's 1115, 1134, and 1137.

1998 - UNSCR 1194 again demands that Iraq comply.

2002 - UNSCR 1441 reads in part:

Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all
necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,

Further recalling that its resolution 687 (1991) imposed obligations on Iraq as
a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international peace and security in the area,

Deploring the fact that Iraq has not provided an accurate, full, final, and
complete disclosure, as required by resolution 687 (1991)...

...

Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its
obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991)

...

Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that
it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its
obligations
If the 1990-91 resolutions were no longer valid, you would have thought the UN would have known. Don't you?
__________________
_____________

1974 2002tii
1978 320i
2007 328i
ganeil is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2007, 12:56 AM   #176
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
The point of my post on debt to GDP ratios was not to show how great we are but to show how misleading you were. You stated that our debt would cause us to collapse as a great power, I said our debt to GDP ratio was within the norm for an advanced economy. You cherry picked statistics to imply our ratio was abnormally high. I merely corrected the record.

If you believe that 65% of Americans believe Bush is incompetent and a liar than you are delusional.

See if you can follow this simple timeline:
1990 - Iraq invades Kuwait, UN orders Iraq to leave Kuwait (UNSCR 660), US authorizes member nations "to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area.'

1991 - UNSCR 687 sets conditions for a cease-fire between Iraq and member states implementing UNSCR 678. The cessation of military action is contingent on Iraqi compliance with all conditions. UNSCR 707, "Condemns Iraq's serious violation of a number of its obligations under section C of resolution 687"

1994 - UNSCR 949 Recalls "that Iraq's acceptance of resolution 687 (1991) adopted pursuant to Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations forms the basis of the cease-fire, and again demands Iraq comply.

1996 - UNSCR 1060 again Deplores the refusal of the Iraqi authorities to allow access to sites designated by the Special Commission, which constitutes a clear violation of the provisions of Security Council resolutions 687 (1991) and Demands that Iraq cooperate fully with the Special Commission in accordance with the relevant resolutions."

1997 - UN condemns Iraqi refusal to comply with 687 in UNSCR's 1115, 1134, and 1137.

1998 - UNSCR 1194 again demands that Iraq comply.

2002 - UNSCR 1441 reads in part:

Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all
necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,

Further recalling that its resolution 687 (1991) imposed obligations on Iraq as
a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international peace and security in the area,

Deploring the fact that Iraq has not provided an accurate, full, final, and
complete disclosure, as required by resolution 687 (1991)...

...

Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its
obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991)

...

Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that
it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its
obligations
If the 1990-91 resolutions were no longer valid, you would have thought the UN would have known. Don't you?

Now, re-read the resolutions -- I highlighted the points for you:
- peace in the region
- hiding the WMD

Both things did not exist on Iraqi side in 2003. There was a peace in the region, definitely no threat from Iraq, and according to Hans Blix, who reported days before Bush attacked -- there was nothing from resolution 1060. 3 years later, Bush admitted that there was no WMD in Iraq. So, the resolution 1060 and all after that are worrthless.
Previous resolutions, 660 and 687 clearly pertain to the Kuwait situation from the 1991, and have nothing to do with the situation in Iraq in 2003.

The resolutions that you keep re-pasting here have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the UN agreeing to support the attack on Iraq in 2003. They clearly, with no doubt, pertain to two things -- Iraqui offensive in Kuwait and the WMD -- clearly none of those existed in 2003.

As for Bush, if you really believe that the majority of Americans believe any of the following:
- that he knowlingly lied about the WMD
- that he planned (and his military guys) correctly this war and the exit strategy
- that we're safer now
- that we're not causing more trouble by this than good...
is not true -- please tell me, so we can wrap up this conversation. If your thinking is so much f'ed up, please let us know, I think I am wasting my time here.
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:43 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST