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      12-26-2009, 06:22 PM   #1
CSanto
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Weighed My P40s: Not a Performance Upgrade

I put winter tires on my stock 19's with the same size fronts as my P40s have (255/35)

The Front wheels weigh exactly the same at 50.5 lbs.

The Stock Rears (265/35 tires) weigh 54.5 lbs. and the P40s (295/30 tires) weigh 55 lbs.

So although they look great, they are by all means not a performance upgrade. 6500 dollars for looks only .

I'm not mad though.
Just wanted to inform the community, sorry that I have no pictures.

btw... the Tires on the P40s are PS2s and the tires on the 19s are Bridgestone Blizzaks.
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      12-26-2009, 07:04 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HREM3 View Post
I put winter tires on my stock 19's with the same size fronts as my P40s have (255/35)

The Front wheels weigh exactly the same at 50.5 lbs.

The Stock Rears (265/35 tires) weigh 54.5 lbs. and the P40s (295/30 tires) weigh 55 lbs.

So although they look great, they are by all means not a performance upgrade. 6500 dollars for looks only .

I'm not mad though.
Just wanted to inform the community, sorry that I have no pictures.

btw... the Tires on the P40s are PS2s and the tires on the 19s are Bridgestone Blizzaks.
The heavier weights are actually by design.

It's not an accident or an oversight by HRE...

I got a chance to speak with the lead engineer for HRE earlier this year.

HRE's philosophy is to leave a little more material on their monoblock forged wheel designs, to increase their durability over time. The additional weight is mearly a by-product of this philosophy.

HRE's #1 priority is to increase the durability their wheel products. They wanted to reduce the chances of a bent rim by one of their customers, so they have adopted a mindset that is similar to how OEM manufacturers build their wheels.

More material in key areas = an increase the overall durability of the wheel product.

So the additional weight does serve a purpose.

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      12-26-2009, 07:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
The heavier weights are actually by design.

It's not an accident or an oversight by HRE...

I got a chance to speak with the lead engineer for HRE earlier this year.

HRE's philosophy is to leave a little more material on their monoblock forged wheel designs, to increase their durability over time. The additional weight is mearly a by-product of this philosophy.

HRE's #1 priority is to increase the durability their wheel products. They wanted to reduce the chances of a bent rim by one of their customers, so they have adopted a mindset that is similar to how OEM manufacturers build their wheels.

More material in key areas = an increase the overall durability of the wheel product.

So the additional weight does serve a purpose.

Cheers.
Welcome back! Great insight as usual.

I read somewhere that HRE actually increased the weight of the B40 and M40 (P40's for BMW and Mercedes) compared to the original P40 wheel (Porsche) Their reasoning was that the average BMW and Mercedes driver is less aware of potholes, etc..than the average Porsche driver, and therefore more likely to bend their wheel.
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      12-26-2009, 07:59 PM   #4
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The OEM 19s are already pretty light anyway so I wouldn't expect a significant decrease in weight from any aftermarket wheel without sacrificing strength.
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      12-26-2009, 11:15 PM   #5
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i always felt they were heavy and overpriced. are any of them truly forged liked a neez wheel etc??

also the only light one they make is the comp series??

if i am gonna spend that kind of money i would want a light and strong wheel, just my opinion
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      12-27-2009, 02:14 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ca$hOnly View Post
Welcome back! Great insight as usual.

+1

Cheers,
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      12-27-2009, 02:18 AM   #7
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If I was going to spend over $6K on wheels I would want to save around 6-7 lbs. per corner but that's me
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      12-27-2009, 03:04 AM   #8
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Keep in mind that HRE wheels are wider vs. stock (+0.5" F and +1" R). That's why even if they managed to save weight by using stronger material, you get more weight from wider rims.

Nonetheless, having owned HRE P40s myself, I think that HRE focuses more on the aesthetics and durability of the wheels. Weight savings is less of a priority for them.\

If you want to save weight and money, go for Advan RS or RS-D. Very cheap for the amount of weight savings.
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      12-27-2009, 03:05 AM   #9
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Lemans Blue is back????

there is hope afterall
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      12-27-2009, 07:15 AM   #10
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aren't HRE's "perfomance"/light weight wheels their "Competition Series," which is a 3-piece line?
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      12-27-2009, 08:47 AM   #11
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I think HRE P40s are a cosmetic and an image (prestige) upgrade.. They are a great company in their own right; they know how to do business - they have good customer service and relatively timely turn around time.

I don't think they are by any means as concentrated on the performance or motorsports aspects of a car in compared to BBS or Rays or a number of larger European/Japanese companies.
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      12-27-2009, 08:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
If I was going to spend over $6K on wheels I would want to save around 6-7 lbs. per corner but that's me
OEM 19s are already 23 lbs so 6-7 lbs per corner would mean you need to find a 19" wheels that weighs 16 or 17 lbs which I don't think I've ever come across.

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I don't think they are by any means as concentrated on the performance or motorsports aspects of a car in compared to BBS or Rays or a number of larger European/Japanese companies.
BBS LM-Rs are 23 lbs in 19" just like the OEM 19s so I guess BBS is not really focused on performance either because they don't weight 5+ lbs less. While I'm all for lightweight wheels, it seems like some of you guys are expecting the impossible and want it cheap. Reality is, the OEM wheels are very good in terms of weight and durability and other than cosmetics, its really hard to make a significant improvement.
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      12-27-2009, 09:27 PM   #13
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Well correct me if I'm wrong but I never said the OEM 19s were an inferior wheel. Also please take note that the BBS LM-Rs is a three piece forged wheel as compared to our OEM 19s (single-piece, forged) and P40s (monoblock forged) so how would you even compare them?

Take a look at Rays' 19" TE-37 - 21.6lbs and 22.2lbs both with wider width wheels as well. I believe our M3 GT2 Rahal team runs an 18" G2 version.

Also, have you ever seen a large motorsports team running HRE wheels? If you do a little research, HRE wheels were banned from IMSA and Viper Racing League due to bent and broken wheels. This was back a few years ago, I believe they have resolved a number of their issues and have strengthened a number of their wheels designed hence the "long-term durability mentality" they have now. I am not hating on HREs, they are an excellent wheel company.. but a lot of people in this board have the misconception that they are the end all be all wheel for our M3s; both in the looks department (which i applaud them for) and performance (which is unknown/questionable).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
OEM 19s are already 23 lbs so 6-7 lbs per corner would mean you need to find a 19" wheels that weighs 16 or 17 lbs which I don't think I've ever come across.



BBS LM-Rs are 23 lbs in 19" just like the OEM 19s so I guess BBS is not really focused on performance either because they don't weight 5+ lbs less. While I'm all for lightweight wheels, it seems like some of you guys are expecting the impossible and want it cheap. Reality is, the OEM wheels are very good in terms of weight and durability and other than cosmetics, its really hard to make a significant improvement.

Last edited by noxredna; 12-27-2009 at 11:31 PM.
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      12-27-2009, 09:45 PM   #14
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Let's be honest, how many guys buy wheels, reagrdless of the brand for performance upgrade? yeah there are some, but i would venture to say at least 8 out 10 guys buy them for looks.

I 100% strictly bought mine for looks, never took performance into account. That being said if there was a smoking hot rim, that was alos heavy as shit, i may shy away from it, but performance had little to nothing to do with my wheel buy.
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      12-27-2009, 10:53 PM   #15
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I had HRE P40's for a while in their recommended sizes, and personally felt there was a performance DECREASE. Even though the wheels may be similar weights, the additional weight you have to carry around with the wider tires hurts acceleration. While we have plenty of HP, we do not have excess TQ and 295's in the rear are overkill and are a hinderance.

IMO, BMW did such a great job on the OEM 19's , I actually like the look better then the P40's. The OEM 19's are really nice, with an almost 3 dimensional look to them, and they are forged and lightweight.

IMO, OEM 19's FTW
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      12-27-2009, 10:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noxredna View Post
If you do a little research, HRE wheels were banned from IMSA and Viper Racing League due to bent and broken wheels.
There is a thread which discusses reported HRE racing failures in detail here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...t=HRE+failures . The most pertinent postings are #10 & #16. The thread contains a lot of good information about wheels.
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      12-27-2009, 11:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noxredna View Post
Well correct me if I'm wrong but I never said the OEM 19s were an inferior wheel. Also please take note that the BBS LM-Rs is a three piece forged wheel as compared to our OEM 19s (single-piece, forged) and P40s (monoblock forged) so how would you even compare them?
The only reason I compared them is because BBS only makes 1 forged monoblock and the LM-R seems to be the most popular "performance" wheel they have in the M3 fitment at this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noxredna View Post
Take a look at Rays' TE-37 which are used for our M3 GT2 Rahal racing team - 21.6lbs and 22.2lbs both with wider width wheels as well. I believe the racing team runs an 18" G2 version.
I wasn't aware there was a G2 available in 18" that fits our car but if there is, then yes it would be a significant improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noxredna View Post
I am not hating on HREs, they are an excellent wheel company.. but a lot of people in this board have the misconception that they are the end all be all wheel for our M3s; both in the looks department (which i applaud them for) and performance (which is unknown/questionable).
I guess the question about their so called inferior performance and banning from motorsports leagues has been addressed in the post above. While you may not be hating on HRE, it seems a lot of other people are because they are an expensive wheel and somehow think that $$$$ = performance or have some outrageous expectation like -6/7 lbs per corner. I was always under the assumption that we were referencing the OEM 19s but if we're talking the OEM 18s maybe that's possible. But a significant improvement over the OEM 19s in terms of weight and durability is going to be tough to do on a lower priced wheel. I think this is one of those instances where you gotta pay to play.

Bottom line, people should just do their research before buying. HRE is definitely not the all in one solution. They make beautiful wheels that are durable and relatively light but not the lightest on the market. If you're looking for all out performance, don't expect it from HRE.
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      12-27-2009, 11:28 PM   #18
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Thank you for the post, I think you said it best. I cannot agree anymore with you - everyone should do their homework before buying their wheels. I made a mistake of buying a subpar wheels for $1500 and that is the biggest regret I've ever had - now I use wheels as an ornament and the base of a coffee table. I can't even bare selling the wheels because it is crap and it's not fair to the 2nd owner.

Our oem 19s are amazing - forged, light and extremely strong. They are on my car now with winter tires on and i've gone through some pretty rough roads and they have held up very well. The finish on them are also very unique - I am a terrible drive and somehow always end up with road rash. I got them refinished recently and it sure was not easy to replicate the bluish hue of the clearcoat that the OEM finish has.
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      12-28-2009, 10:33 AM   #19
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Your monoblock and regular 3-piece HREs are not light by any means. You do get the name and the great looking wheel for the price. The HRE Comp series wheels are some of the lightest 3-piece wheels out there and they are not overpriced. If you are looking for strong 1-piece monoblocks, I'd look into Neez and Tech.1 (on the expensive side), BBS and COR Forged (on normally-priced side) and Forgestars (on really cheap side). Just depends on your preference and style really.
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      12-28-2009, 11:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Your monoblock and regular 3-piece HREs are not light by any means. You do get the name and the great looking wheel for the price. The HRE Comp series wheels are some of the lightest 3-piece wheels out there and they are not overpriced. If you are looking for strong 1-piece monoblocks, I'd look into Neez and Tech.1 (on the expensive side), BBS and COR Forged (on normally-priced side) and Forgestars (on really cheap side). Just depends on your preference and style really.
What forged monoblock does BBS and Forgestar make in M3 fitment?
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      12-28-2009, 12:40 PM   #21
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What forged monoblock does BBS make in M3 fitment?
BBS RE & RE-V
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      12-28-2009, 12:57 PM   #22
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I'm not trying to start a war here, i just wanted to inform.

Honestly, HRE's are great, just dont expect them to make the car better by any means.
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