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      12-22-2009, 04:12 PM   #1
infamxkris
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Need some major help!

hey guys i have been shopping for an m3 and i have come across a 2008 e92 m3 DCT in Alpine white with tech, premium, and cold. Now this car is a certified pre owned and the dealership has told me the warranty is good till 2014 or 100k miles. Now is this accurate as far as the mileage for the warranty? Also is it worth to pay the extra cash for a certified preowned and if i purchase a car that isnt certified would i be able to get it certified later down the road and get the extra warranty? If so how much would it cost me? Well anyway this car has 18k miles on it and they have listed it at 60k. I talked to the guy at the dealership and he has told me can go down to mid 50s to high 50s. Is this a fair price for this type of car? And is it really worth it to get a certified preowned?
I am going to the dealership to check out the car in person and would like to know if i need to do anything before i purchase the car? Is a PPI still necessary on a certified pre owned? Would it be ok to go and purchase without getting one?

Any help is appreciated guys, and thank you in advance!
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      12-22-2009, 09:57 PM   #2
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can anybody please help me? i go to see the car tomorrow!
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      12-22-2009, 10:24 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by infamxkris View Post
hey guys i have been shopping for an m3 and i have come across a 2008 e92 m3 DCT in Alpine white with tech, premium, and cold. Now this car is a certified pre owned and the dealership has told me the warranty is good till 2014 or 100k miles. Now is this accurate as far as the mileage for the warranty? Also is it worth to pay the extra cash for a certified preowned and if i purchase a car that isnt certified would i be able to get it certified later down the road and get the extra warranty? If so how much would it cost me? Well anyway this car has 18k miles on it and they have listed it at 60k. I talked to the guy at the dealership and he has told me can go down to mid 50s to high 50s. Is this a fair price for this type of car? And is it really worth it to get a certified preowned?
I am going to the dealership to check out the car in person and would like to know if i need to do anything before i purchase the car? Is a PPI still necessary on a certified pre owned? Would it be ok to go and purchase without getting one?

Any help is appreciated guys, and thank you in advance!
Ok, to the best of my knowledge:

Yes, the standard CPO warranty is 6 years, 100K miles.

I don't believe you can get a non CPO car certified. This is up to the dealer when they acquire a used BMW. BMW sets standards that a CPO car must meet. If the car does not meet them then the dealer must remedy the problems before they can certify the car. This costs the dealer $$$.

Is it worth the extra $$$? Only you can answer that. Note that there is a %50 deductible on warranty work. Compare that with $0 deductible for a new car. Also note that the CPO warranty is not an extended service plan.

Whether the quoted price is worth it will depend on options and in what shape the car is in. If it's a CPO then it probably is in good shape and it sounds to me like a fair deal. Definitely, go check it out.

I believe that the CPO process is equivalent to PPI, you shouldn't need one, but it might depend on the laws in your state.

Ask if the BMW Assist subscription is in force and for how long before you will need to pay for the subscription yourself.

Also check out the service department if this is the dealer that you will be taking the car for service. Talk to the SAs and see if you get a good feeling. Do your research (this forum is a good resource) and ask the dealer and their service dept people questions. Sometimes they're knowledge-able, sometimes not, and sometimes they try to BS you. Hopefully this will give you the warm fuzzies. If not, I'd go elsewhere.


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      12-22-2009, 10:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infamxkris View Post
hey guys i have been shopping for an m3 and i have come across a 2008 e92 m3 DCT in Alpine white with tech, premium, and cold. Now this car is a certified pre owned and the dealership has told me the warranty is good till 2014 or 100k miles. Now is this accurate as far as the mileage for the warranty? Also is it worth to pay the extra cash for a certified preowned and if i purchase a car that isnt certified would i be able to get it certified later down the road and get the extra warranty? If so how much would it cost me? Well anyway this car has 18k miles on it and they have listed it at 60k. I talked to the guy at the dealership and he has told me can go down to mid 50s to high 50s. Is this a fair price for this type of car? And is it really worth it to get a certified preowned?
I am going to the dealership to check out the car in person and would like to know if i need to do anything before i purchase the car? Is a PPI still necessary on a certified pre owned? Would it be ok to go and purchase without getting one?

Any help is appreciated guys, and thank you in advance!
Price seems high to me. CPO dates and mileage is correct...6 yrs from initial in-service date (original owner) or 100K miles, whatever comes first. I could be wrong, by a CPO is not available later...only at time of sale. To many, a warranty is important, especially on an M3. Depending on how many miles you drive, 32K miles could come quick and you will be outside the normal 50K warranty. You need to decide if the CPO 100K warranty is worth the cost. I believe it is typically $3K more than what you can buy the car without the CPO. For me, $3K is worth it. Now you need to see if the cost is really $3K. I don't think so on this particular car. Seems overpriced.

I did a Euro Delivery. The MSRP on my 2010 e90 M3 was $69K (nearly every option...no DCT and a couple other minor options). I bought for under $60K. Of course the downside is waiting what seems like an eternity to get your car back from Germany (4-8 wks). You also need to pay for your own trip. This was not a big deal for us since my wife and I were already planning our annual fall/winter vacation. You can get by as cheap as a flight (~$700), rail pass in Germany ($15), and maybe one night in hotel ($150). Pick up the car at Welt and come back home. I do not recommend a quick pickup as driving in Europe is a fantastic way to break your car in. Also, the BMW Welt delivery center is impressive.
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      12-22-2009, 10:48 PM   #5
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Is a PPI still necessary on a certified pre owned? Would it be ok to go and purchase without getting one?
The PPI is probably overkill on a CPO. The CPO process requires an extensive inspection of the car before it can be certified. Not all cars can pass the CPO process. I personally would not get a PPI on a CPO.
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      12-22-2009, 10:54 PM   #6
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thanks for the info rich! now do you think the car is worth it or no? i am really wanting this car even more because there are NO used e92 m3s around in my area... I have also found another CPO e92 with the exact same options except it is a 6mt but with only 7k miles but it was listed at 1k less than the car i have mentioned. I have told this to my dealer and he said because the car they have listed is a DCT their car will go for more... Now i dont drive manual but i would think that 11k in mile differential is HUGE and dont think the DCT would make a car with 11k more miles worth 1k more! Am i wrong to think this? Also what would be a good price to offer for the car with 18k miles knowing that the exact same car with 11k less miles is out for 1k less even though it has a 6mt.. I go to the dealership tomorrow to check out the car and work out a price. What would be the price i should shoot for? ( the one with 18k miles and DCT)
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      12-22-2009, 10:58 PM   #7
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thank you for the reply! and what is the BMW assist? i go to the dealership tomorrow and was wondering what kind of price i should shoot for? i have an updated thread in the general m3 section called "need help please!" with some more info on whats going and what i need help with. I hope you can help me further ersin?
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      12-22-2009, 11:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
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thank you for the reply! and what is the BMW assist? i go to the dealership tomorrow and was wondering what kind of price i should shoot for? i have an updated thread in the general m3 section called "need help please!" with some more info on whats going and what i need help with. I hope you can help me further ersin?
BMW Assist is like GM's OnStar. It comes with the tech package. With a new BMW purchase you get 4 years free. If you are in an accident the system notifies BMW and if they can't get in touch with you (using the mic and speaker in the car) they can call emergency services. Or if you get a flat they can send out a flatbed. Or if you're car goes into limp mode in the middle of nowhere. Or, ... , well I think you get the idea. You can also upgrade this (at a cost) to get concierge service.

Good luck. I'll put any other remarks in the other thread.

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      12-22-2009, 11:29 PM   #9
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I thinks will depend on how long you plan to keep the car. At some point the extended warranty (CPO) won't be worth it if you get rid of the car before the standard warranty expires. That being said, low 50's is what I would shoot for...
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      12-22-2009, 11:32 PM   #10
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i plan on keeping the car forever.. as long as it runs! also i have updated about a new situation i am in over here:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333852 (see post #4)

Any help is greatly appreciated!
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      12-22-2009, 11:42 PM   #11
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Ok, to the best of my knowledge:
Is it worth the extra $$$? Only you can answer that. Note that there is a %50 deductible on warranty work. Compare that with $0 deductible for a new car. Also note that the CPO warranty is not an extended service plan.
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You mean $50 deductible right? because it's so pointless to get %50 deductible.
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      12-23-2009, 11:15 AM   #12
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any help is appreciated!
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      12-23-2009, 11:41 AM   #13
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You mean $50 deductible right? because it's so pointless to get %50 deductible.
My keyboard got spooked and jumped to the left at the exact moment my finger was typing the dollar sign. Darn monitor just loves to play tricks on the keyboard.
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      12-23-2009, 11:57 AM   #14
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Where are you located? Here in the Northeast, you'd probably be able to get that car for low 50's if it had all options outside of the packages. Probably different on the west coast.

CPO isn't extremely holistic but it does give a nice peace of mind for major mechanical items (note that the CPO warranty does not cover most things covered under the original warranty, e.g., wear and tear, trim items, etc.).

One other benefit is that you'll get most, if not all, of your money back for the CPO warranty should you ever want to sell or trade the car within the CPO period (provided that there is a meaningful amount of warranty left). The warranty goes with the car and not with the owner.

I don't know if a PPI would be absolutely necessary, but I've always had a concern that some shady dealer could get a beater past corporate and sell a less than mechanically perfect car as CPO. It would then be assumed that the car was perfect when taken by the customer and therefore, any engine issues, etc. that pop up after purchase will be wholly attributable to something that the new owner did.

Granted, I don't know anything about the certification process but it would never hurt just to check for overrevs/moneyshifts,etc. to make sure the car is in sound mechanical condition before taking delivery. I wonder if the dealer could just pull codes for you or something?
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      12-23-2009, 12:13 PM   #15
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any help is appreciated!
When I looked at used M3 before getting a 2010, I found most under $55k with low miles. This was prior to 2010 being available. I had a problem finding exactly what I wanted, so I bought new and probably got a much better deal than if I bought preowned. I believe all tradeins are coming in under $50K. I would think the low $50s is probably closer market. IMO.
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      12-23-2009, 12:22 PM   #16
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ugh.. i just got off the phone with the dealer and even though i keep telling him that the same car with the same options besides the DCT is out with 11k LESS miles than the one i am trying to buy but he keeps bringing up how the DCT makes it worth more than the car with the 6mt and 11k LESS miles.. is this guy right? he said most he can cut off the 60k is about 1-2k which would be either 59-58k for the car. Like i said before the other car with less miles and 6mt is out for 59k. Please would like some help.
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      12-23-2009, 12:31 PM   #17
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I don't think you need two threads on the same matter. Hence, I merged both threads.


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      12-23-2009, 01:59 PM   #18
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sorry for the double thread.. i wasnt getting much replies here earlier and saw the general section had more people viewing so i posted there. if its possible to move this back to the general section i would appreciate it but if it cant then i understand. Also any suggestions on my problem?
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      12-23-2009, 06:57 PM   #19
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The DCT was a $2,900 option on the 09s; think it was the same on the 08s.

Edmunds is a great source for pricing as is KBB. According to Edmunds, a CPO with the 18K miles, "Outstanding" (that is absolutely perfect condition with not the slightest blemish, tires with lots of tread) DCT, and options you listed (plus I added 19s, PDC, Sat Radio) is 57K. If this car has Premium Stereo that mightadd another $500 to 1k so and that's about 58K. A "Clean" vehicle similarly optioned with same 18K miles comes out at just over 53K. Note: with 18K miles if these are original tires you're going to need new tires very very soon. The 6MT you mentioned, with other similar options and just 7K miles and "Outstanding" condition comes in CPO at 56K. So based on Edmunds I don't think the dealer is blowing smoke when it comes to the DCT higher-mileage car having a higher price tag. (Note: the numbers above are based on a CA zip code. You should re-run those numbers based on your region/zip.)

Here's the Edmunds link. Here's the KBB link. Go plug in your regional variables and the other exact details and you'll have some research to go in armed with. At least you'll know if the dealers you're working with are in the right ballpark. Should you try to chop off 1k or 2k more based on the economy? Generally, Edmunds and KBB adjust for that already, and how you want to negotiate for the 1K or so is up to you. Given sales right now, time of the year, etc. the cards are probably in your favor for the better deal.

"Outstanding" Definition: Vehicle is in exceptional mechanical, exterior and interior condition with no visible wear; it requires no reconditioning. Paint will have a glossy appearance. Vehicle has no mechanical and/or cosmetic problems and has a clean engine compartment. Exterior and interior are free of any damage. Tires are in nearly new condition.

"Clean" Definition: Vehicle shows some normal wear but has no major mechanical and/or cosmetic problems. Paint still has a glossy finish and may have slight scratches or dings. Some reconditioning may be needed. Interior will have minimal fading and wear. Tires have substantial tread remaining.
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      12-23-2009, 08:17 PM   #20
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^^ very helpful info finnegan! i talked to the dealer again today and it seems he wont take anything close to low 50s he told me even 55k he would have to speak to his superior. What is a reasonable offer for this car? didnt think about the tires or anything like that so i appreciate you pointing that out. i personally thought the difference in miles was huge comparing the two cars as i am paying a premium for the CPO warranty and the extra miles just means i have less warranty.. so i guess i would like to know what is a reasonable offer for this car?
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      12-23-2009, 08:58 PM   #21
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If you're asking for my opinion--and it's just that, an opinion--even 54K for CPO (assuming Premium Sound, 19s, Sat, BMW Assist, PDC, e.g. loaded) is an overly generous offer. 52K is better. Here's why: Edmunds put the trade in at around 49K for "outstanding"; but I doubt the dealer gave that and they probably used "clean" and gave someone about 47K on the trade. In my experience dealers almost never pay high Blue Book or Edmunds "Outstanding" values; often they give low BB or "Average". "Average" in this case is a little over 44K . CPO costs them about 1.5K (we'll say 2K for an assumption) if I remember (and I think CPO is a good idea on this car).

So, let's assume they paid a "Clean" price for the car. That works out as follows: 55K (their offer to you "with supervisor approval BS") - 2K (CPO cost) - 47 (what they paid) = 6K profit for them. Plus you're going to pay tax, license, etc. so you're not walking out paying 55K.

What's a fair profit? That's a good question and one I can't answer. But a 5% profit would be ~51.5K (49K base * 1.05). 55K is over a 12% profit if the assumptions above are correct. That, IMO, is too much profit.

Other considerations: tires are going to cost you (unless they want to throw in new shoes). Tires on 19" wheels aren't cheap: replacing the PS2s will cost ~350 per tire front; 385 per tire rear: $1,470 not including tax and other fees. And that's not including balancing, alignment (if needed--at 18K miles a possibility), and mounting costs. I'd figure on 2K as a rule of thumb (other members can chime in here; I haven't replaced rubber yet). And that's not the only expense you're going to incur regarding tires....

You're also going to need winter wheels/tires. It's must: you can't run the summer tires in your region in the cold, ice, snow or even wet. Take a look at the general forum--it's wreck o' rama due to folks having issues running summer tires in winter conditions. Not worth the risk. And a good winter set-up means less wide wheels and tires to match (wider is not better for snow); at the very least good winter tires if you want to keep the stock wheel setup. Check the wheel/tire section for recommendations-there's a Tire Rack thread there (site sponsor) that's informative. If they want to throw a winter set of wheels/tires then you have to plug that into your cost/profit/offer scenarios.

If I were you I'd plug in various factors (similar to what I did above) and create scenarios, including winter tires/PS2 replacement, taxes, license etc. and see what this is really going to you before jumping in. Figure out what you can really afford to pay, what a reasonable profit for the dealer is, and work the deal from there. Doing your homework and being fully informed in terms of the numbers really pays off when shopping cars. Know your numbers inside out; it will pay off for you, and you'll be able to negotiate from a position of strength. Sales guys/dealers all count on this stuff being nebulous and on the buyer (us) not having a real idea of costs, plus the power of the emotion (buying a car is, let's face it, exciting), to take money from your pocket (at least that's my opinion).

Sorry if I'm being Mr. Negative on this deal and throwing out a lot of variables to consider....hopefully this is of some help and doesn't just add to the confusion.

Last edited by Finnegan; 12-23-2009 at 09:29 PM.
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      12-23-2009, 09:31 PM   #22
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your info has been amazing finn.. i didnt realize all the things that can alter this deal. well like i said they had this car listed at 60k and even though 55k isnt a set price he did say i can offer that as an offer. I asked if low 50s was doable. and he said there is no way this car is being moved for that amount. It didnt even sound like 55k was going to get me the car... with this said if its anywhere around 55-57k should i just walk on this deal or just bite as this is the ONLY used m3 around me... once again thank you for the wonderful info!
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