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      12-16-2009, 12:40 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bren335i View Post
The GIAC file isn't bad. But that's an ignorant statement.

Drew could make any car run good times, he's a great drag racer. Powerchip simply has the highest hp E92's out there now. Including all the boosted ones tuned at a certain facility . Drew actually knows powerchip's tuner very well.

The N/A E46 M3 record of 12.3 uses a powerchip tune fyi
Bren,

I appreciate the kind words! There has been some suggestions that my driving skills are the reason for the excellent results I've gotten, but I'm not so sure that's the case. My car is DCT, it really does a lot of the work for you. If my car was 6MT, then yes, I would accept the praise for my driving, but I think the mods have more to do with it, and this incredible DCT Tranny that BMW decided to go with.

The N/A E46 M3 record is owned by Lee Mathews, who unlike me can flat out drive a 6MT, he is the real deal, he has a long history of it as well, not just with his E46 M3, but with just about every car he's owned, lol, he's one heck of a cool cat as well.

The boost only E46 M3 Supercharged record is owned by VF/GIAC, 11.51 sec. with a high trap of 124.8, AA and HPF are right there as well. However, I do believe that both GIAC and PC are great options and have performed as advertised, I would run either on my car.
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      12-16-2009, 01:14 PM   #24
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Tom,

Let me assure you I've been decompiling software hex files long their were even resellers. I know what goes into both files and I will tell you that GIAC is a great OTS file, and would be even better if it was custom tuned to each customer's vehicle. Without that final touch - it will not compare to another. There's simply no comparison, PC goes the extra notch.

I've used various files over the years, from various different models dating back tot he mid 90s and I'll tell you both companies have had there share of POOR tunes put out on the market too early and customer service issues. I've seen businesses come and go, I've seen horrible knock inducing tunes sell millions due to market dominance and marketing.

I made no boosted claims, VF makes great kits, and GIAC tunes them. I got the chance to work with a VF Stage 3 M3 on the east coast about 7 months ago. GIAC appeals to the masses with a conservative file that won't warm or break laws (no cats). That is what they stand by and good for them. However, the longer this car is out and brought to the dyno and drag strip - the more obvious the gap will be made between off the shelf tuning and custom service tuning by Powerchip.

For the guys who don't want canned software and want a little more then the guy in the next lane - Powerchip. For the guys who don't care and just want a flash n' go file PC and GIAC are great options.

Making a generalization about Drew's run mid winter with his drag racing skills is . He has a track record of excellent driving. Sticky did 12.0-12.1 eons ago (back in 08) on a PC tune with exhaust and DR's in the summer. Mathew back in 03 still holds the title for the S54 run.

It's blatantly obvious to see ones marketing agenda with GIAC, I've worked with PC directly here and there and haven ever seen an issue. This forum glows with praise. If you're in the business of programming, you'd be ignorant not to think you won't brick an ecu or have to revert to stock at some point to troubleshoot. Things happen, it's how you handle them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Agreed - The GIAC file is probably the best out there, just not widely marketed at every single chance a software thread is brought up.

As for the boosted claims, that will be put to the test within the next week:



I had the Powerchip installed on my M3 back in June and was not happy with the results, a number of other issues (both mechanical and support related) rose began during programming when the DME needed to be returned to stock, luckily - we were able to remove the software with some help from the autologic team and get back on track.

I've known the Powerchip guys for some time and have dealt with them since the S54 days on software, but the GIAC flash simply performed better - which is the reason we decided to team up with them.

Stay subscribed to our journal thread, we will be posting our results soon.



DLSJ5's "off the shelf" file has been producing some amazing results.
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      12-16-2009, 01:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bren335i View Post
Tom,

Let me assure you I've been decompiling software hex files long their were even resellers. I know what goes into both files and I will tell you that GIAC is a great OTS file, and would be even better if it was custom tuned to each customer's vehicle. Without that final touch - it will not compare to another. There's simply no comparison, PC goes the extra notch.

I've used various files over the years, from various different models dating back tot he mid 90s and I'll tell you both companies have had there share of POOR tunes put out on the market too early and customer service issues. I've seen businesses come and go, I've seen horrible knock inducing tunes sell millions due to market dominance and marketing.

I made no boosted claims, VF makes great kits, and GIAC tunes them. I got the chance to work with a VF Stage 3 M3 on the east coast about 7 months ago. GIAC appeals to the masses with a conservative file that won't warm or break laws (no cats). That is what they stand by and good for them. However, the longer this car is out and brought to the dyno and drag strip - the more obvious the gap will be made between off the shelf tuning and custom service tuning by Powerchip.

For the guys who don't want canned software and want a little more then the guy in the next lane - Powerchip. For the guys who don't care and just want a flash n' go file PC and GIAC are great options.

Making a generalization about Drew's run mid winter with his drag racing skills is . He has a track record of excellent driving. Sticky did 12.0-12.1 eons ago (back in 08) on a PC tune with exhaust and DR's in the summer. Mathew back in 03 still holds the title for the S54 run.

It's blatantly obvious to see ones marketing agenda with GIAC, I've worked with PC directly here and there and haven ever seen an issue. This forum glows with praise. If you're in the business of programming, you'd be ignorant not to think you won't brick an ecu or have to revert to stock at some point to troubleshoot. Things happen, it's how you handle them.
The term "canned" is a bit generalized, let's not label things.

There are quite a few different flavors of the GIAC tune, which is why a build sheet is required before any tune is performed. The subject of GIAC custom tuning has been brought up in the past (vehicle must be present here on the dyno).

If those located in SoCal are interested - we'll make it happen.
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      12-16-2009, 01:43 PM   #26
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With all due respect, Tom, I think you're a bit biased on this one . My experience with Powerchip has been simply awesome. Jeremy has my car running better than I ever thought possible, and Mike Benvo always treats me like a top priority.

I think GIAC is great as well, but in the end I don't think you can go wrong Powerchip.
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      12-16-2009, 02:11 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrip View Post
With all due respect, Tom, I think you're a bit biased on this one . My experience with Powerchip has been simply awesome. Jeremy has my car running better than I ever thought possible, and Mike Benvo always treats me like a top priority.

I think GIAC is great as well, but in the end I don't think you can go wrong Powerchip.
Not really, I'm speaking from personal experience.

I've had both tunes on my own M3 and driven others with PC as well as GIAC, but to make the claim that one tune is the "best" would mean you have tried the other (GIAC) at one point or another.

We had the option to sell Powerchip quite some time ago and decided not to, the GIAC flash simply performed better and shown a significant increase in overall performance. However, I was not happy of how the situation was handled when the DME needed to be returned to stock, I would rather not get into details on a public forum.

Mike's good people, and I have nothing against Travis or Jeremy. We simply went with the best option with proven results. I'm pleased to hear that those equipped with PC are happy with their tunes. If everyone on the forum modded their M3 in the same exact fashion, it would make for a very boring forum.

However, I feel we made the right decision with GIAC, I'm happy with the results and will recommend it to all my customers.
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      12-16-2009, 02:19 PM   #28
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I hear you, but "driving" cars with both tunes is pretty subjective. The only hard data that would show clear superiority would be back to back dyno runs of the two tunes on the same car, or drag runs on the same car, same conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Not really, I'm speaking from personal experience.

I've had both tunes on my own M3 and driven others with PC as well as GIAC, but to make the claim that one tune is the "best" would mean you have tried the other (GIAC) at one point or another.

We had the option to sell Powerchip quite some time ago and decided not to, the GIAC flash simply performed better and shown a significant increase in overall performance. However, I was not happy of how the situation was handled when the DME needed to be returned to stock, I would rather not get into details on a public forum.

Mike's good people, and I have nothing against Travis or Jeremy. We simply went with the best option with proven results. I'm pleased to hear that those equipped with PC are happy with their tunes. If everyone on the forum modded their M3 in the same exact fashion, it would make for a very boring forum.

However, I feel we made the right decision with GIAC, I'm happy with the results and will recommend it to all my customers.
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      12-16-2009, 02:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bren335i View Post
Tom,

Sticky did 12.0-12.1 eons ago (back in 08) on a PC tune with exhaust and DR's in the summer. Mathew back in 03 still holds the title for the S54 run.
Sticky's 12.1 run was actually in the winter, around this time last year. I believe he was on the stock exhaust though, a very good run as well.
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      12-16-2009, 02:23 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by powertrip View Post
I hear you, but "driving" cars with both tunes is pretty subjective. The only hard data that would show clear superiority would be back to back dyno runs of the two tunes on the same car, or drag runs on the same car, same conditions.
I agree. I'm sure we'll be seeing some PC and GIAC equipped M3s at MFest IV next year where it can be shown on the track as well as dynos.
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      12-16-2009, 02:40 PM   #31
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This forum rocks.
All this debating about Powerchip vs. GIAC is making me super excited to get my ECU flash.
It seems like both are great ECU tunes from what I've read thus far on the thread but I'm really leaning towards Powerchip at this point. If I'm not happy, I'll just return and get GIAC instead. Both have a 14-day return policy if not fully satisfied with product. Maybe I'll try both????

Does anyone know what Powerchip or GIAC does differently then one another? I mean, it seems like there could only be "X" number of different configurations. I would think that at some point or another everyone would have the best configuration possible, no? I don't know much about ECU re-mapping though so excuse me if these statements are totally out of line.
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      12-16-2009, 02:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
The term "canned" is a bit generalized, let's not label things.

There are quite a few different flavors of the GIAC tune, which is why a build sheet is required before any tune is performed. The subject of GIAC custom tuning has been brought up in the past (vehicle must be present here on the dyno).

If those located in SoCal are interested - we'll make it happen.
Tom,

Canned may not be the best term.

Canned food items come in different flavors as well, 91/93, cat delete, etc has been build sheet OTS software for years now, doesn't mean they all aren't the same canned idea

Unless the car is manipulated on the dyno each flash, to acheive higher results for that vehicle's specific mod set, individual VE, up to date maintenance, gasoline type - it is an off the shelf file that has been "pre-tuned" or "canned" on one car. All cars are not created equal.

And no, adding dynamic advance timing table to adjust up and down doesn't qualify here. And especially as the cars get older, leaks are present, mileage wear is present, the gap gets larger. However, like I said GIAC makes IMO one of the better "not custom" flashes however there's nothing like a customized touch.

Powerchip doesn't limit customers to SoCal for custom tuning as the tuner is physically mobile and can remote tune a file from their flash kits they send out to customers.
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      12-16-2009, 02:52 PM   #33
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Drew, transmission aside - you can launch and drive very well and know your way around the paddles and the drag strip. This speaks volumes of your knowledge not necessarily the car, in your video of a much powerful car you raced was a same et 12.1@130 dct M3, haha.
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