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      12-14-2009, 01:59 AM   #1
rzm3
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Arrow Sachs Coilover... No Application for M3?

So I looked up Sachs Racing and am quite impressed with their technology. Not only is Sachs a tier one OEM, they also provide dampers for six Formula 1 teams including Ferrari, in addition to WRC, ALMS, etc...

I also looked up their Performance Coilover Line. They offer ride height and compression/rebound adjustability (20 levels). Interestingly they have kits for the regular 3 series but not for any of the M3s (E46, E92, etc.). Does anyone have insider info as for why?

In the mean time I will contact them to see if there will be anything coming up.



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Last edited by rzm3; 12-14-2009 at 02:37 AM.
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      12-14-2009, 02:38 AM   #2
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Kit picture for the regular 3 series.

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      12-14-2009, 02:59 AM   #3
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EDC seems to be discouraging companies from developing kits. JIC/Cross makes kits for all kinds of cars, but they have no interest in this car because most have EDC.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      12-14-2009, 03:56 AM   #4
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The M3 GTS uses Sachs coilovers (no EDC).
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      12-14-2009, 07:18 AM   #5
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i think i read somewhere that sachs makes the oem edc suspension as well...
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      12-14-2009, 12:52 PM   #6
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yes... i have heard that the GTS and regular M3 uses Sachs, because they are an OEM supplier to BMW...

my question is: will we be getting Sachs aftermarket parts for the M3?
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      12-14-2009, 03:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I have to wonder what's the problem with making EDC compatible aftermarket shocks. Many of these companies already have electronically actuated shocks. In order to make them EDC compatible, they only need to intercept the CAN bus messages (assuming there are some) and/or the electronic activation signals. The CAN bus is a known commodity -- intercepting the messages is easy. It probably takes no more than 1-day of reverse-engineering to figure out the EDC enable/disable messages.

So what's wrong with these companies? Are you telling me they only know how to make shocks and have no idea how to reverse-engineer computer busses?
I agree. And those are good questions too.
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      12-14-2009, 03:49 PM   #8
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R&D vs. return
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      12-14-2009, 08:39 PM   #9
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Bilstien has them for the P-cars.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      12-14-2009, 11:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
R&D = Minimal: 1 day, plus $5k in hardware (which can probably be rented for a few hundred bucks).
Return = Huge: when you're the only one on the market with a solution.
Well, PG, it's probably not as cheap as this.

Sure many coilover companies such as Bilstein already has electronically actuated shocks, but they are not necessarily compatible with the M3 EDC module. Therefore to design such a system for just one model of car may not be worth the money.

From my understanding, for a single line of products (i.e. PSS10, Moton Street Sport), most suspension companies use the same core shock design + different mounting features across many brands and models of cars. Therefore to design something specifically for the BMW M3 is quite outside their usual practice.
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      12-14-2009, 11:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
R&D = Minimal: 1 day, plus $5k in hardware (which can probably be rented for a few hundred bucks).
Return = Huge: when you're the only one on the market with a solution.
PG, do you wan to team up and come up with a kit ?

I am in !
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      12-15-2009, 12:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I have to wonder what's the problem with making EDC compatible aftermarket shocks. Many of these companies already have electronically actuated shocks. In order to make them EDC compatible, they only need to intercept the CAN bus messages (assuming there are some) and/or the electronic activation signals. The CAN bus is a known commodity -- intercepting the messages is easy. It probably takes no more than 1-day of reverse-engineering to figure out the EDC enable/disable messages.

So what's wrong with these companies? Are you telling me they only know how to make shocks and have no idea how to reverse-engineer computer busses?
KW and Macht Schnell both have code isolators for those with aftermarket suspension to prevent error codes from appearing.

If you're referring to integrating an aftermarket dampener to comply with EDC monitoring - that's a much different story.
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      12-15-2009, 01:40 AM   #13
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They do make a kit for the M3 ... except it's sold under the AC Schnitzer brand:

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      12-15-2009, 02:43 AM   #14
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You seem to be correct. ACS does use Sachs shocks, but probably custom springs.

I wonder why SACHS doesn't sell the kit on their own?
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      12-15-2009, 09:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I have to wonder what's the problem with making EDC compatible aftermarket shocks. Many of these companies already have electronically actuated shocks. In order to make them EDC compatible, they only need to intercept the CAN bus messages (assuming there are some) and/or the electronic activation signals. The CAN bus is a known commodity -- intercepting the messages is easy. It probably takes no more than 1-day of reverse-engineering to figure out the EDC enable/disable messages.

So what's wrong with these companies? Are you telling me they only know how to make shocks and have no idea how to reverse-engineer computer busses?


I can also assume that it also has to do with EDC related patents/license?
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      12-15-2009, 01:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rldzhao View Post
You seem to be correct. ACS does use Sachs shocks, but probably custom springs.

I wonder why SACHS doesn't sell the kit on their own?
I looked into this option prior to going with RD. ACS may have paid for the R&D work, custom manufacturing with some sort of timed exclusivity.

This is similar to what RD did with Bilstein. The Bilstein setup is custom to RD using there design goals and research and test data from the Ring. The setup is exclusive to RD for the M3 application.

The ACS setup is also quite pricey. However I do believe tuners such as ACS and RD spend quite a bit of time testing there products. They also tend to use OEM suppliers.

I personally believe, as good as the Moton setup is, the RD and ACS setup is a better street / track compromise. That is just part of there design philosophy. It's a philosophy that I feel is more inline with what the M3 is. I believe it's closer to the engineers original M3 vision without having to design and spec for the lowest denominator consumer.

However, with that said, If my main goal was track performance, the Moton setup would be the one to get above the Sachs. It also looks so much nicer.
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      12-15-2009, 05:09 PM   #17
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Guess it's not as easy as it sounds.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...64&postcount=6



More info in this post:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...79&postcount=8

.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."

Last edited by aus; 12-15-2009 at 09:59 PM.
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