BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis
 
GT Haus
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-07-2009, 11:44 PM   #1
rzm3
Moderator
rzm3's Avatar
224
Rep
4,603
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (14)

Arrow Which Coilover Kit?

After quite a few track weekends, I am at the point where I would like to have a more suitable suspension kit for high performance driving. The Dinan springs are still too soft for my taste.

I've been recommended by many that coilover kit is the way to go. There are quite a few choices out there, KW, Bilstein, Moton, TCKlein etc.

Spring Rates Compared: (lbm/in)

OEM: 160F/550R
KW V3: 285F/630R
KW CS: 500F/800R
Moton: 360F/620R
Bilstein: 400F/565R

Key Requirements:

1. A capable track set up. I probably do a track event per 1-2 months and am currently in the 2nd to top run group. Would like less settling time on the car. Also less roll. Not expecting race car harsh suspension though.

2. A street liveable kit. I usually walk to work so this isn't really my DD. But I do use it for Weekly Driving for dinner, groceries etc. Therefore I would like something that is somewhat liveable on Houston Streets.

3. NO side-effects (NVH, excessive wear...). I've heard some stories of some springs cluncking etc. with some kits, so please let me know if you are experiencing problems with your kit.

4. Easy adjustability: I've seen that most mid to high end kits can change the compression and rebound settings, but I don't want to have to take hours to change them.


Anyway, please let me know your thoughts. I am an engineer, so please bombard me with technical information.

Vendors are also welcome to send me factual info/quotes

Thanks guys!
__________________
E92 M3 DCT - AiM EVO4 Data Logger / AiM SmartyCam HD / KW Competition 2-Way / OMP ARS Racing Seats / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete

Last edited by rzm3; 11-10-2009 at 10:36 PM.
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2009, 12:25 AM   #2
jml
Captain
jml's Avatar
17
Rep
986
Posts

 
Drives: E90M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (2)

I would buy the Moton StreetSports.
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2009, 11:20 AM   #3
doba_s
Major General
doba_s's Avatar
United_States
148
Rep
6,099
Posts

 
Drives: M3, 1M
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (26)

Send a message via Skype™ to doba_s
I'll take your dinan kit ...

Moton I think is the way to go.
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2009, 12:10 PM   #4
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
United_States
19
Rep
1,948
Posts

 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

I would recommend the TC KLINE D/A coilover setup, that uses Koni shocks paired with Vogtland springs. (Vogtland springs are lightweight, and offer very precise linear spring rates)

They give you compression and rebound adjustability, all for about half the price of the Moton street setup.

Just my 2 cents...
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2009, 03:33 PM   #5
aus
Major General
117
Rep
7,406
Posts

 
Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (5)

Mr.5 had some issue with the Vorslag plated TCK uses. He's mostly on the E90 side but posted about them here about a year ago.

Harold can mate the TCK, KW track coils or AST coils with Swift springs but it does require modifying the coils on some applications.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2009, 03:39 PM   #6
jml
Captain
jml's Avatar
17
Rep
986
Posts

 
Drives: E90M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (2)

The secret sauce in the Motons is their fast response damping - it really smooths out the bumps on the track, and if they've translated that superior capability from their Club sport and racing dampers to the street kit, you can expect the ride quality to be excellent with respect to their ability to control the gross dynamics of the car. I don't think you will be able to find a better ride/handling compromise for the street - meaning that it will have superior ride quality for how well it will handle without requiring you to turn up the compression/rebound damping. Of course you will dial it up on the track...
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2009, 03:44 PM   #7
STALKER
Brigadier General
50
Rep
3,662
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3, 991 C4S, 997 GT3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

iTrader: (5)

I just got the Motons, have not installed them yet though.
Its really the way to go IMO if you are using your car daily. I don't get out to the track as often as you, but its worth the extra $$$ IMO. My car is my daily driver so ride comofort was very important to me. I had GC coils and sways on my e46 M3 and was happy with that set up, but it could get a little harsh sometimes.
If you don't want to get the Motons, I would wait to see what GC is going to offer. I have heard that the TCK for the e9X M3s is pretty much a carry over over from their other kits, I can't verify this though.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S-SOLD
2010 GT3
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2009, 04:03 PM   #8
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
United_States
19
Rep
1,948
Posts

 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jml View Post
The secret sauce in the Motons is their fast response damping - it really smooths out the bumps on the track, and if they've translated that superior capability from their Club sport and racing dampers to the street kit, you can expect the ride quality to be excellent with respect to their ability to control the gross dynamics of the car. I don't think you will be able to find a better ride/handling compromise for the street - meaning that it will have superior ride quality for how well it will handle without requiring you to turn up the compression/rebound damping. Of course you will dial it up on the track...
Don't forget the 5k 'entry fee'.
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2009, 04:05 PM   #9
jml
Captain
jml's Avatar
17
Rep
986
Posts

 
Drives: E90M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Don't forget the 5k 'entry fee'.
It's worth every penny on a 70K car that weighs 4K lbs
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2009, 04:15 PM   #10
STALKER
Brigadier General
50
Rep
3,662
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3, 991 C4S, 997 GT3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

iTrader: (5)

Plus the cost of install and set up...unless you can do it yourself.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S-SOLD
2010 GT3
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2009, 01:34 PM   #11
Trier Germany
Banned
Luxembourg
24
Rep
1,085
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 E-90 M3 space gray
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deutschland KreisTrier auf Autobahn 64 & Tucson AZ

iTrader: (1)

KW Variant 3 for the win
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2009, 01:54 PM   #12
rzm3
Moderator
rzm3's Avatar
224
Rep
4,603
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (14)

guys, please elaborate on your choice of coilover kit with reason, dont just say xxx is the best/for the win. Thanks.
__________________
E92 M3 DCT - AiM EVO4 Data Logger / AiM SmartyCam HD / KW Competition 2-Way / OMP ARS Racing Seats / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2009, 11:12 PM   #13
STALKER
Brigadier General
50
Rep
3,662
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3, 991 C4S, 997 GT3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

iTrader: (5)

What about the RD Sport chassis kit?
I don't think its adjustable though.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S-SOLD
2010 GT3
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2009, 07:56 PM   #14
aus
Major General
117
Rep
7,406
Posts

 
Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (5)

I've got the first and only JIC/Cross coils that was a semi-custom set since some things didn't fit well initially. I only got them because their US operation isn't far from my home. They were able to give suggestions on spring rates after driving the car and it rides like stock despite being lowered. I really have to remind myself that I have coils on. I have 14kg/mm springs up front and 10kg/mm springs in back. There is minimal body roll now.
I'll do a write up someday with some pics.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2009, 08:34 PM   #15
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
United_States
19
Rep
1,948
Posts

 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
I've got the first and only JIC/Cross coils that was a semi-custom set since some things didn't fit well initially. I only got them because their US operation isn't far from my home. They were able to give suggestions on spring rates after driving the car and it rides like stock despite being lowered. I really have to remind myself that I have coils on. I have 14kg/mm springs up front and 10kg/mm springs in back. There is minimal body roll now.
I'll do a write up someday with some pics.
Very interesting...

So you have 787 lb spings upfront, and 564 lb springs in the back...on Monotube struts and shocks.

Looking forward to your full review.
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2009, 10:12 PM   #16
rzm3
Moderator
rzm3's Avatar
224
Rep
4,603
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (14)

Spring Rates Compared: (lbm/in)

OEM: 160F/550R
KW V3: 285F/630R
KW CS: 500F/800R
Moton: 360F/620R
Bilstein: 400F/565R
__________________
E92 M3 DCT - AiM EVO4 Data Logger / AiM SmartyCam HD / KW Competition 2-Way / OMP ARS Racing Seats / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2009, 10:27 PM   #17
MrHarris
yodog
MrHarris's Avatar
United_States
77
Rep
5,037
Posts

 
Drives: '86 Corolla
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Diamond Bar, Ca

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2009 BMW  [5.00]
Send a message via AIM to MrHarris
Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
I've got the first and only JIC/Cross coils that was a semi-custom set since some things didn't fit well initially. I only got them because their US operation isn't far from my home. They were able to give suggestions on spring rates after driving the car and it rides like stock despite being lowered. I really have to remind myself that I have coils on. I have 14kg/mm springs up front and 10kg/mm springs in back. There is minimal body roll now.
I'll do a write up someday with some pics.
How much it cost?!
__________________

2009 E92 M3 | Alpine White | Black Extended | Advan RS | Turner Test Pipes | Dinan Axle-Back | OETuning | Eibach Springs | UUC SSK | VRS Front Lip | VRS Type I Diffuser | Matte Black | RPi Scoops | MS Filter | Yokohama AD08 | F1 Pinnacle
Special Thanks: Gintani | OETuning | eAs
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2009, 12:50 AM   #18
aus
Major General
117
Rep
7,406
Posts

 
Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Very interesting...

So you have 787 lb spings upfront, and 564 lb springs in the back...on Monotube struts and shocks.

Looking forward to your full review.
I was a little hesitant when they called and recommended stiffer springs since the kit came with 12K springs up front that member 08M3 had ordered. He ordered them from Ron************. JIC/Cross made the recommendations after driving the car stock and then with the 12K springs on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHarris View Post
How much it cost?!
I got the kit for a pretty good price since 08M3 was having trouble moving them after he got the Motons (twice I think). It was ironic they were shipped to Canada from SoCal and then shipped right back to where they started from. I think they're based on the regular E90 version, but they had to make the lower mounts in back since the M3 is totally different. They also had to use the R56 Mini front sway bar mounts. The original kit was made in Japan and the US guys didn't even know about it.

http://www.**********s.com/_e/loc/pr...lovers_E90.htm
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:06 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST